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The NSA disaster

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  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    I'm kind of amazed no one dared to post the latest on the NSA disaster. Sorry to say that Obama plays the "dumb" game. He knows of nothing!
    Just by calling Merkel and give his apologies does not work. More and more countries are getting roaring mad at us, just like we do not have enemy's enough. By saying he did not know, he makes a complete fool of himself. I guess on such delicate international issue, playing these games is totally stupid.
    Sure he did know; the NSA confirmed this morning that he was fully informed and even asked to get the reports himself. The European newspapers published the real story in much more details than they dare to do here.

    Staying on the Bush created path will have a huge negative effect on the Democratic party. The total arrogance of the US to think they can rule the world and do whatever they like in this world, should come to an end. The continuous fear mongering slogans of "this keeps us safe" is total B.S.

    The only way the US can be accepted again as an example for the world is taking care of their own household and stop meddling in the rest of the world. We do not need huge army's or arsenals of weapons or drones; no one will attack us if we just stop our arrogance, greed and being "power" hungry.
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    Dutch you are right, it seems that this administration can't get anything right. One misstep after another and ..."Obama plays the "dumb" game"... yes he does, yet again. He can't really be this clueless about everything, can he? But he just thinks he can just claim that he didn't know and it will go away. He seems to not solve problems as much as he ignores them.

    There's no accountability for anything. Not by him, not by anyone.

    The Germans reportedly LOVED President Obama...until this. Now he is being slammed in the German press, and who can blame them?

    Who knows what more NSA disaster news awaits?
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    I agree with of the previous postings, but remember this was the system that has been created because of the so-called Patriot Act, which I strongly opposed both in letters and phone calls to all of my Congressional people, both at the State and National level, sometime later I was notified by our Internal Affairs was I one that wrote to my Congressmen, I said yes, and I don't what happened after that but I wasn't asked about it anymore.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Dutch Wrote: I'm kind of amazed no one dared to post the latest on the NSA disaster. Sorry to say that Obama plays the "dumb" game. He knows of nothing!
    Just by calling Merkel and give his apologies does not work. More and more countries are getting roaring mad at us, just like we do not have enemy's enough. By saying he did not know, he makes a complete fool of himself. I guess on such delicate international issue, playing these games is totally stupid.
    Sure he did know; the NSA confirmed this morning that he was fully informed and even asked to get the reports himself. The European newspapers published the real story in much more details than they dare to do here.

    Staying on the Bush created path will have a huge negative effect on the Democratic party. The total arrogance of the US to think they can rule the world and do whatever they like in this world, should come to an end. The continuous fear mongering slogans of "this keeps us safe" is total B.S.

    The only way the US can be accepted again as an example for the world is taking care of their own household and stop meddling in the rest of the world. We do not need huge army's or arsenals of weapons or drones; no one will attack us if we just stop our arrogance, greed and being "power" hungry.
    I don't completely disagree with you Dutch, but I will suggest that any President isn't kept in the loop on many things that the NSA and CIA are doing. The term "plausible deniability" comes to my mind when I see these things. It was invented during the Cold War and was meant to shield top officials from willfully breaking federal and international law.

    All countries spy and Ms. Merkel has to act surprised about this, but she is a fool if she actually thinks that any of her communications are private. That's not how the game works and she knows it. She has to make a stink because she would look weak if she didn't, but I would be hard pressed to think that she didn't suspect this all along. She may be jealous that Germany doesn't have the technology that America has to spy, but to say that she can't believe that we are spying on her or any other world leader is suspect.

    The UKUSA Agreement of 1946 is the only agreement between countries that explicitly states that the countries involved in the agreement can not spy on each other. The "Five Eyes" are the United States, United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. Germany asked to join this agreement multiple times, but the countries in this agreement have refused to allow it. I'm not saying that this is right, but I am saying that these issues are far more complex than many of us realize.
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    jared you are right. Germany probably knew, or suspected, that they were being spied upon. I think the US has being spying on our allies, and they on us, ever since we have had allies. That doesn't make it right, just the way it is.

    And yes, Germany HAD to show outrage, either real or fake, but outrage had to be displayed. Make a stink, as you say, it had to be done. Political posturing and all that.

    The big question is: Which scenerio is more embarrassing to President Obama?

    1. He did not know that the intel agencies of the US were spying on our allies?

    2. He did know that the intel agencies of the US were spying on our allies and got caught?

    Not a good situation for him either way, but at least it deflects a little attention from the Obamacare rollout disaster.

    Can things get even worse?
  • Democrat
    Missouri
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    Germany has known for years through many US Presidents of espionage. Other countries in the world know. It's laughable to see the reactions, such as, "Your listening to my cell phone? How dare you!". Technology has exceeded all expectations and what you don't know is already happening. Don't be surprised, just live it and go on with more living. If you are doing something criminal, that you deserve any outcome of someone turning you in from their spying on your personhood. What is hard to accept is the motive behind the spying and if someone uses data on your person to do something bad against you. I say more spying needs to be accomplished to look into those that want to do something evil to you. I spy, you spy, we all spy and live happily ever after.

    After Obama and the next Presidents waiting in line for future stardom, all will be going through the whole spy thing. Can anybody actually say with all truth and honesty, "I will not spy on you."? Maybe the NSA needs to rein in the power heads, but they will only be replaced by another power head wanting a different way to spy the world. Again, our technology advances have made spying child's play. You can't even escape from spying by cutting out all technology and move to some deserted and remote area in Northern Canada. No power, no communications, no postman, just nobody but you and the bears. Remember we have satellites, UAV's, even those pesky hunter mounted cameras on trees, there's no place to hide. More probable is some of those bears following you will be robots with a purpose of capturing everything about you. There's no place to hide.

    So what are we to do? You look stupid wearing the aluminum foil hat to ward off mind reading devices. If you act too much like a hermit, someone will turn you in as mentally insane incapable of caring for yourself. If you act too crazy around children, they will turn you in as child offender and you'll end up in prison. If you go off on this post the NSA will knock on your door and take you away. Just join all of us and let's all spy together. Go to Bass Pro or your favorite hunter store and you'll find many toys for spying. Look up on the internet and you'll find extravagant tools for the adventure of spying on your neighbors. Let's all spy on the NSA because Snowdon apparently did it successfully and got paid to do it. It's about time, someone like Snowdon turn up evidence to the public. America and the world needs to wake up and realize, nothing is sacred and protected from someone prying into your livelihood. You are worthy of being spied on.............feel good about it. It makes you feel important. You are a VIP if someone is spying on you......................do it.......it feels good!

    The spying will never, never, never be stopped. Only after abomination of all mankind less one will spying be stopped. Hell, even my wife spies on me, that's why I indicated "mankind less one" after world termination. Please try spying, it's addictive.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    AmcmurryFreedom Wrote: Germany has known for years through many US Presidents of espionage. Other countries in the world know. It's laughable to see the reactions, such as, "Your listening to my cell phone? How dare you!". Technology has exceeded all expectations and what you don't know is already happening. Don't be surprised, just live it and go on with more living. If you are doing something criminal, that you deserve any outcome of someone turning you in from their spying on your personhood. What is hard to accept is the motive behind the spying and if someone uses data on your person to do something bad against you. I say more spying needs to be accomplished to look into those that want to do something evil to you. I spy, you spy, we all spy and live happily ever after.

    After Obama and the next Presidents waiting in line for future stardom, all will be going through the whole spy thing. Can anybody actually say with all truth and honesty, "I will not spy on you."? Maybe the NSA needs to rein in the power heads, but they will only be replaced by another power head wanting a different way to spy the world. Again, our technology advances have made spying child's play. You can't even escape from spying by cutting out all technology and move to some deserted and remote area in Northern Canada. No power, no communications, no postman, just nobody but you and the bears. Remember we have satellites, UAV's, even those pesky hunter mounted cameras on trees, there's no place to hide. More probable is some of those bears following you will be robots with a purpose of capturing everything about you. There's no place to hide.

    So what are we to do? You look stupid wearing the aluminum foil hat to ward off mind reading devices. If you act too much like a hermit, someone will turn you in as mentally insane incapable of caring for yourself. If you act too crazy around children, they will turn you in as child offender and you'll end up in prison. If you go off on this post the NSA will knock on your door and take you away. Just join all of us and let's all spy together. Go to Bass Pro or your favorite hunter store and you'll find many toys for spying. Look up on the internet and you'll find extravagant tools for the adventure of spying on your neighbors. Let's all spy on the NSA because Snowdon apparently did it successfully and got paid to do it. It's about time, someone like Snowdon turn up evidence to the public. America and the world needs to wake up and realize, nothing is sacred and protected from someone prying into your livelihood. You are worthy of being spied on.............feel good about it. It makes you feel important. You are a VIP if someone is spying on you......................do it.......it feels good!

    The spying will never, never, never be stopped. Only after abomination of all mankind less one will spying be stopped. Hell, even my wife spies on me, that's why I indicated "mankind less one" after world termination. Please try spying, it's addictive.
    I agree that spying has been done since the beginning of times. However the "means" have changed drastically, so the mindset of the once who carry this out has become out of wack. It is the same thing if you have a little kid and you spy on it all day; the kid will find out and take measures or reactions which may change the total interface and upbringing because the kid will then become an enemy of the parents and may want to kill them.
    So in this big world if one wants to be dominant by doing these things it will have just the opposite effect, Washington does not seem to realize such. That is my message.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Again onthe news; Obama probably did listen to "Mr King" (what a name!) who proclaimed Obama should not apologize anymore. So today Obama keeps quiet. But the damage has been done. Lately Obama's score card is an "F"
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    And now he is coming to speak at Faneuil Hall in Boston tonight - the same night the Red Sox's may win the World Series (not that I care about baseball in the least, but many do) and everyone will be tuned in to the "game", other than I, of course ;)

    Does he have any advisors at all that have a clue about anything? One has to wonder! Or, perhaps, that's part of the plan?
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    Right about the timing which is terrible. Was Thanksgiving or Christmas Day not available? On the day of the biggest sporting event in Boston in nearly a hundred years, on the same day that Sebelius gets grilled on Obamacare, and he decides to go to Boston? Even non sports fans in Boston aren't going to watch the president.

    The last time the Red Sox won the World Series at home was 1918, when Babe Ruth played for them!

    When President Obama first got elected I knew he was inexperienced and unqualified, but I thought he would be able to surround himself with a bunch of smart people who would make good decisions. I was wrong, his cabinet and close advisors are terrible! 2 examples: Sebelius and whoever thought this trip to Boston tonight was a good idea!
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    Well, I guess Obama is a Red Sox's fan. The scheduled his speak for late afternoon, at least. Now I have to find something to do while the game us on!
  • Democrat
    Maryland
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    come on its the 21 century! They wanted transparency, so now they got it. I say so what!
  • Democrat
    los angeles, CA
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    When any president takes office there is this huge juggernaut of past presidential policy to wade through to see which you use and which you won't. Saying Obama did this or didn't do that is kind of ludicrous when you see what he has wade thru from day one. any president would not last long at all if he doesn't get along with the military power structure. which means he tells them what he wants and they fill the request the best way they can, no president can micromanage the cabinet positions. like obamacare, potus wasn't writing code for the site, he has to depend on others to carry out his ploicys.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    netcomtech Wrote: When any president takes office there is this huge juggernaut of past presidential policy to wade through to see which you use and which you won't. Saying Obama did this or didn't do that is kind of ludicrous when you see what he has wade thru from day one. any president would not last long at all if he doesn't get along with the military power structure. which means he tells them what he wants and they fill the request the best way they can, no president can micromanage the cabinet positions. like obamacare, potus wasn't writing code for the site, he has to depend on others to carry out his ploicys.
    No. it does not work that way. First of all how do you become president? When you are running you are already in the grip of all kind of lobbyists; it depends on your mentality; which one's you retain or shake off. So when you get elected you owe it to them on how you got there; so you barely run the show yourself; it is run for you. Some old imbedded structures, like the Pentagon, put in hardly any effort to get favors, because they themselves have more power than the president; they will dictate what they want and get it without hardly any fight.
    Presidential power is long gone; what happens behind the scene is what matters; the lobbyists with the biggest wallet wins.
    Policies do not matter they are solely window dressing for us tax payers. A president should see the "big" picture; however in such position you should be aware of who runs the real show and tries to transform you into a puppet; which is clearly at play with the Obama presidency.
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    Speaking of "the NSA disaster" did anyone else see the story in the New York Times on a related subject?

    Headline is "FRANCE BROADENS TRACKING POWER"
    Sub headline is "Legislature approves law for electronic surveillance"
    New York Times story by Scott Sayare

    Paris--Despite their indignation when the scope of the United States' mass data collection began to be made public, French Intelligence Services operate a similar system of electronic surveillance, with similarly minimal oversight.

    And last week, with little public debate, the Legislature approved an electronic surveillance law that critics feared would markedly expand the collection of data on French citizens and businesses."

    Looks like the Frenchies don't want us to be the only country with out-of-control spying. Maybe it's becoming trendy in Europe now.