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The Bible - Can You Trust It?

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    There is a very evident problem with a perfect resource being interpreted by imperfect humans. Its easy to get it wrong. Exegesis is taking the Bible and finding out what it says about a subject. This will often change one's views when comparing it to present world veiws. However most people use Eisegesis instead of exegesis. Eisegesis is taking one's world view and going to the Bible to prove it right. In this case you find what your looking for even if its contrary about what the full message of the Bible says about it. We have seen evidence of this throughout the centuries as concerns many things. Bible believing advocates during the years of slavery used the Bible to prove and promote slavery. The Bible even today is still being used falsely to promote the notion that Women are of less worth than men. Both sides of the Gay Rights issue find what they believe is authoritative evidence to support their side of the issue.
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    Zach F Wrote: While it is true that faith is an appealing thing, it is also a dangerous and detrimental quality to have. Faith requires people to accept ideas as facts without evidence. Believing in an idea just to feel better does not make that idea anymore true. While faith can bring people together, it does it a way that excludes people. It tends to cause bigotry and xenophobia. Faith brings down skyscrapers and blows up women's clinics. Faith indoctrinates children and hampers education and advancement. Faith has far more negative qualities than positive.
    Zach,

    I agree with you but only insofar as I believe your definition of faith is as conceived of and practiced by the "religious right" and "fundamentalist" Jews, Christians and Muslims who's "faith" is blind and not really faith.

    If they had real faith, they would not try to play god, judge, jury and executioner, nor would they fight their so-called "holy wars" and crusades.

    If they had real faith, they would trust that there is a higher universal consciousness at work on a spiritual level.

    Real faith is not based on dogma or the doctrines of men, or on "religion." Real faith is based on the realization that there is indeed something higher and greater than the human ego -- something unseen and yet is the essence of all that is good.

    That's what I have faith in, and it matters not what it's called. That's why the Hebrew "name" for God is not a name at all. It's a verb meaning "to be" and is transliterated as "that which was, is, and shall always be."
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    Peace&Justice Wrote: There is a very evident problem with a perfect resource being interpreted by imperfect humans. Its easy to get it wrong. Exegesis is taking the Bible and finding out what it says about a subject. This will often change one's views when comparing it to present world veiws. However most people use Eisegesis instead of exegesis. Eisegesis is taking one's world view and going to the Bible to prove it right. In this case you find what your looking for even if its contrary about what the full message of the Bible says about it. We have seen evidence of this throughout the centuries as concerns many things. Bible believing advocates during the years of slavery used the Bible to prove and promote slavery. The Bible even today is still being used falsely to promote the notion that Women are of less worth than men. Both sides of the Gay Rights issue find what they believe is authoritative evidence to support their side of the issue.
    What perfect resource are you talking about?
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    Peace&Justice Wrote: There is a very evident problem with a perfect resource being interpreted by imperfect humans. Its easy to get it wrong. Exegesis is taking the Bible and finding out what it says about a subject. This will often change one's views when comparing it to present world veiws. However most people use Eisegesis instead of exegesis. Eisegesis is taking one's world view and going to the Bible to prove it right. In this case you find what your looking for even if its contrary about what the full message of the Bible says about it. We have seen evidence of this throughout the centuries as concerns many things. Bible believing advocates during the years of slavery used the Bible to prove and promote slavery. The Bible even today is still being used falsely to promote the notion that Women are of less worth than men. Both sides of the Gay Rights issue find what they believe is authoritative evidence to support their side of the issue.
    I assume you are referring to the Christian Bible when you mention a "perfect resource." But as I've shown in several posts on the thread, it is not perfect. It was written by human beings who were only human. They had racial and ethnic biases, as well as opinions.

    As for the difference between "Exegesis" and "Eisegesis," I think you have a good point.

    The message I believe in and advocate utilizes both. Considering all the articles as a whole body of work, I see the author obviously researched the Bible to find out what it says about things, but in researching the Bible he also obviously searched for and found scriptural evidence to support his original thesis -- a thesis based on direct experience and realization of God.
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    This may be my last post on Democratic Hub, so I want to make it about religion.

    This thread about whether we can trust the Bible or not is very important, because as I see it the debate between Bess and me is a debate that should be very public.

    Bess believes the Christian Bible is without error, inerrant, and literal, while as you can see I have shown how and why it is not, even though it does contain much divinely inspired truth and some prophecies that are remarkably amazing when you understand their true meaning.

    Most Christians in America understand that the Bible contains much allegory and symbolism, and some contradictions and errors. But most evangelicals and fundamentalists, especially those on the political right-wing, do not understand. They are what Jesus of Nazareth called "the blind led by the blind."

    Their spiritually blind theocratic leaders are the false shepherds and false prophets and hypocrites Jesus was talking about when he predicted they would claim to "do many wonderful works in the name of the Lord," when they in fact "work iniquity," alienating their blind flocks and infecting them with a cultish group superiority complex.

    That would be bad in any country, but it is especially bad in America, because as you can read in Quotes from the Founders Regarding Religion, the Founders intended to establish not merely freedom of religion, but equality of religions, freedom from Theocracy, and freedom from theocratic imposition by any religion or religious group.

    What the "Religious Right" has done in America and in the world during the last 33 years is in large part responsible for all the "holy wars" we have in the world today -- because misguided Muslim fundamentalist zealots are very aware that the American Christian Dominionsts are waging another "Holy Crusade" against Islam (the second largest religion in the world).

    Some Muslims are also aware that Jewish and Christian Zionism is based on misinterpretation and distortion of prophecies, which in no way justify what the government of the modern state of Israel has been doing since 1948.

    ONLY when the tables are turned on all the proud and militant hypocrites who claim to be Jews or Christians or Muslims -- and only when the true meaning of prophecies are widely known -- will the world begin to know peace.
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    Guy Dwyer Wrote: This may be my last post on Democratic Hub, so I want to make it about religion.

    This thread about whether we can trust the Bible or not is very important, because as I see it the debate between Bess and me is a debate that should be very public.

    Bess believes the Christian Bible is without error, inerrant, and literal, while as you can see I have shown how and why it is not, even though it does contain much divinely inspired truth and some prophecies that are remarkably amazing when you understand their true meaning.

    Most Christians in America understand that the Bible contains much allegory and symbolism, and some contradictions and errors. But most evangelicals and fundamentalists, especially those on the political right-wing, do not understand. They are what Jesus of Nazareth called "the blind led by the blind."

    Their spiritually blind theocratic leaders are the false shepherds and false prophets and hypocrites Jesus was talking about when he predicted they would claim to "do many wonderful works in the name of the Lord," when they in fact "work iniquity," alienating their blind flocks and infecting them with a cultish group superiority complex.

    That would be bad in any country, but it is especially bad in America, because as you can read in Quotes from the Founders Regarding Religion, the Founders intended to establish not merely freedom of religion, but equality of religions, freedom from Theocracy, and freedom from theocratic imposition by any religion or religious group.

    What the "Religious Right" has done in America and in the world during the last 33 years is in large part responsible for all the "holy wars" we have in the world today -- because misguided Muslim fundamentalist zealots are very aware that the American Christian Dominionsts are waging another "Holy Crusade" against Islam (the second largest religion in the world).

    Some Muslims are also aware that Jewish and Christian Zionism is based on misinterpretation and distortion of prophecies, which in no way justify what the government of the modern state of Israel has been doing since 1948.

    ONLY when the tables are turned on all the proud and militant hypocrites who claim to be Jews or Christians or Muslims -- and only when the true meaning of prophecies are widely known -- will the world begin to know peace.
    Hi great "guy" why are you leaving? It was fun having you around; I guess this Bess woman did not dare to touch my mails, but you had some success. Inthe meantime I learned to walk on water ( paddle board, or water ski's) so I'm the new Jesus; if you want a miracle call me!! All the best Rob
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Guy Dwyer Wrote: This may be my last post on Democratic Hub, so I want to make it about religion.

    This thread about whether we can trust the Bible or not is very important, because as I see it the debate between Bess and me is a debate that should be very public.

    Bess believes the Christian Bible is without error, inerrant, and literal, while as you can see I have shown how and why it is not, even though it does contain much divinely inspired truth and some prophecies that are remarkably amazing when you understand their true meaning.

    Most Christians in America understand that the Bible contains much allegory and symbolism, and some contradictions and errors. But most evangelicals and fundamentalists, especially those on the political right-wing, do not understand. They are what Jesus of Nazareth called "the blind led by the blind."

    Their spiritually blind theocratic leaders are the false shepherds and false prophets and hypocrites Jesus was talking about when he predicted they would claim to "do many wonderful works in the name of the Lord," when they in fact "work iniquity," alienating their blind flocks and infecting them with a cultish group superiority complex.

    That would be bad in any country, but it is especially bad in America, because as you can read in Quotes from the Founders Regarding Religion, the Founders intended to establish not merely freedom of religion, but equality of religions, freedom from Theocracy, and freedom from theocratic imposition by any religion or religious group.

    What the "Religious Right" has done in America and in the world during the last 33 years is in large part responsible for all the "holy wars" we have in the world today -- because misguided Muslim fundamentalist zealots are very aware that the American Christian Dominionsts are waging another "Holy Crusade" against Islam (the second largest religion in the world).

    Some Muslims are also aware that Jewish and Christian Zionism is based on misinterpretation and distortion of prophecies, which in no way justify what the government of the modern state of Israel has been doing since 1948.

    ONLY when the tables are turned on all the proud and militant hypocrites who claim to be Jews or Christians or Muslims -- and only when the true meaning of prophecies are widely known -- will the world begin to know peace.
    Where are you going Guy?
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    Dutch and Zach,

    Thank you for asking why I may not be posting any more.

    For some time I have had nagging feelings and thoughts that it is finally time to put my Internet "pen" aside and take another path using a different medium.

    My health is the problem and I have a lot to overcome, but I recently got a new diagnosis regarding the biggest problem and obstacle, and have new medicines that help.

    Wish me well. I wish you well, and more power to you. I may keep you posted sometime next Fall or Winter.
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    Best of luck to you. Please feel free to drop by and pay us a visit at any time.
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    The same from me as Zach did; I wish you a lot of success and satisfaction in what you are doing; I'm your age as well and know what it feels like to be running the clock out. I had my heartattack so I know that once you hit our age, it is not smooth sailing. However I'm very lucky the rest of my body still works fine (knock on wood) Anyway hang in there and look at the huge star filled sky once in while and then remember what I wrote. Keep in touch!!
    All the best keep those lungs going!!

    Rob