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Declaration of Independence

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  • Strongly Liberal
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    Seattle, WA
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    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness; that to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness." -- Thomas Jefferson, Declaration of Independence, 1776

    Government is instituted for the common good; for the protection, safety, prosperity and happiness of the people; and not for the profit, honor, or private interest of any one man, family, or class of men. Therefore the people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government and to reform, alter, or totally change the same, when their protection, safety, prosperity and happiness require.” -- John Adams

    That is as true now as it was in 1776, and we, the people, should take it to heart.

    Therefore, this article is to suggest an evolutionary idea that can actually reform and alter our government so that is it is actually of, by and for the people and serves our interests -- an idea that government should exist not merely by the consent of the governed, but also by our own initiative, free choice and equal opportunity to determine who represents us at the highest levels of government.

    As it is, we the people do not have free choice and equal opportunity to choose who represents us. We are presented with choices, and the choices are limited to candidates approved by the partisan political parties that divide us. We have no choice but to take sides, be pitted against each other, and buy into the polarizing battle for the throne. And regardless of which partisan warrior wins it, the wealthiest few win and the vast majority loses.

    The fulfillment of the Real American Dream would be having a government that is truly of the people, by the people and for the people --- government that promotes the general welfare by using the common wealth for the common good, and ensures domestic tranquility, liberty, freedom, and justice for all the people.

    America does not yet have that.

    (Quoted from the beginning of The 21st Century Declaration of Independence.)

    That article suggests that the Founders wrote Article 5 of the Constitution precisely because they understood that we would probably have to reform and alter our government when it does not serve our interests and instead blatantly serves the interests of the wealthiest few.
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  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Guy Dwyer Wrote: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness; that to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness." -- Thomas Jefferson, Declaration of Independence, 1776

    Government is instituted for the common good; for the protection, safety, prosperity and happiness of the people; and not for the profit, honor, or private interest of any one man, family, or class of men. Therefore the people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government and to reform, alter, or totally change the same, when their protection, safety, prosperity and happiness require.” -- John Adams

    That is as true now as it was in 1776, and we, the people, should take it to heart.

    Therefore, this article is to suggest an evolutionary idea that can actually reform and alter our government so that is it is actually of, by and for the people and serves our interests -- an idea that government should exist not merely by the consent of the governed, but also by our own initiative, free choice and equal opportunity to determine who represents us at the highest levels of government.

    As it is, we the people do not have free choice and equal opportunity to choose who represents us. We are presented with choices, and the choices are limited to candidates approved by the partisan political parties that divide us. We have no choice but to take sides, be pitted against each other, and buy into the polarizing battle for the throne. And regardless of which partisan warrior wins it, the wealthiest few win and the vast majority loses.

    The fulfillment of the Real American Dream would be having a government that is truly of the people, by the people and for the people --- government that promotes the general welfare by using the common wealth for the common good, and ensures domestic tranquility, liberty, freedom, and justice for all the people.

    America does not yet have that.

    (Quoted from the beginning of The 21st Century Declaration of Independence.)

    Let's say it this way it is now 2013 not 1776; at that time people still had a lot of trust inthemselves and the government and nice words still meant something; however nowadays the lobbyists who run our country right now could care less about nice words; like the slogan "this keeps America safe" I guess this was not mentioned in the Constitution. But we live now in a fake world; corruption and misuse of "words" keeps us going. Statements on the "fourth", like we thank our veterans to keep us safe, are total B.S. ( In none of the wars after WWII, a country attacked us; so where did they keep us safe from?)

    That article suggests that the Founders wrote Article 5 of the Constitution precisely because they understood that we would probably have to reform and alter our government when it does not serve our interests and instead blatantly serves the interests of the wealthiest few.
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  • Strongly Liberal
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    Seattle, WA
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    Dutch,

    Would you edit your post, because the way it is, you inserted what you wrote into my post.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Guy Dwyer Wrote: Dutch,

    Would you edit your post, because the way it is, you inserted what you wrote into my post.
    You are absolutely right!! However I tried to change that, to put it behind your writing but did not succeeed ( I've got not the patience either to mess up more than that); my apologies; sure you did not write that piece of text!!!
  • Strongly Liberal
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    Seattle, WA
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    Dutch,

    Thanks for trying to make the correction.

    By the way, I agree with you about wars, especially now. The conflicts and wars now are a lot about "religion" (as fundamentalist zealots define it), and about domination, control, trying to gain or maintain power, etc. These conflicts and wars are not like World War II which is considered a "just war" because it was fought and won by those who were against Nazi and Nipponese tyranny and global imperialism.

    It's too bad that the major winners of WWII, the U.S., the U.S.S.R. and Great Britain then proceeded to abuse their power. But then, it seems that is a classic outcome of wars against tyranny. Those who win power by being victorious over tyrannical regimes are usually then corrupted by that power, because power inevitably corrupts, and absolute power inevitably corrupts absolutely.

    That's why humanity needs to allow the inevitable advance beyond fighting for power over each other, whether in war or in partisan political campaigns. It's like the children's game of "King of the Mountain," because the "king" always gets knocked off by another, or by a group, and the competition for the "throne" never ends.

    We need a way to share power, and to ensure the peaceful, popular and gradual transfer of power and stability of government. That's what the 21st Century Declaration of Independence is all about.
    .
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Guy Dwyer Wrote: Dutch,

    Thanks for trying to make the correction.

    By the way, I agree with you about wars, especially now. The conflicts and wars now are a lot about "religion" (as fundamentalist zealots define it), and about domination, control, trying to gain or maintain power, etc. These conflicts and wars are not like World War II which is considered a "just war" because it was fought and won by those who were against Nazi and Nipponese tyranny and global imperialism.

    It's too bad that the major winners of WWII, the U.S., the U.S.S.R. and Great Britain then proceeded to abuse their power. But then, it seems that is a classic outcome of wars against tyranny. Those who win power by being victorious over tyrannical regimes are usually then corrupted by that power, because power inevitably corrupts, and absolute power inevitably corrupts absolutely.

    That's why humanity needs to allow the inevitable advance beyond fighting for power over each other, whether in war or in partisan political campaigns. It's like the children's game of "King of the Mountain," because the "king" always gets knocked off by another, or by a group, and the competition for the "throne" never ends.

    We need a way to share power, and to ensure the peaceful, popular and gradual transfer of power and stability of government. That's what the new or updated Declaration of Independence is all about.
    .
    Hey, thanks, you got it right. Sorry to say, since I still look at the US from the outside, that this country puts in way to much effort into "reforming" other countries, instead of themselves. For instance in The Netherlands when I lived there, there were no slums as here, or whole cities with buildings which were only occupied by rats etc. (Detroit) But anyway the countries which we tried to reform are sometimes even worse after we left.
    So constitutions or not, it does not make any difference. Sorry to say the US is one big island and have little clue on how the rest of the world works and lives.; they run around in circles all the time chasing their own tails.
  • Strongly Liberal
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    Dutch Wrote:
    Guy Dwyer Wrote: Dutch,

    Thanks for trying to make the correction.

    By the way, I agree with you about wars, especially now. The conflicts and wars now are a lot about "religion" (as fundamentalist zealots define it), and about domination, control, trying to gain or maintain power, etc. These conflicts and wars are not like World War II which is considered a "just war" because it was fought and won by those who were against Nazi and Nipponese tyranny and global imperialism.

    It's too bad that the major winners of WWII, the U.S., the U.S.S.R. and Great Britain then proceeded to abuse their power. But then, it seems that is a classic outcome of wars against tyranny. Those who win power by being victorious over tyrannical regimes are usually then corrupted by that power, because power inevitably corrupts, and absolute power inevitably corrupts absolutely.

    That's why humanity needs to allow the inevitable advance beyond fighting for power over each other, whether in war or in partisan political campaigns. It's like the children's game of "King of the Mountain," because the "king" always gets knocked off by another, or by a group, and the competition for the "throne" never ends.

    We need a way to share power, and to ensure the peaceful, popular and gradual transfer of power and stability of government. That's what the 21st Century Declaration of Independence is all about.
    Hey, thanks, you got it right. Sorry to say, since I still look at the US from the outside, that this country puts in way to much effort into "reforming" other countries, instead of themselves. For instance in The Netherlands when I lived there, there were no slums as here, or whole cities with buildings which were only occupied by rats etc. (Detroit) But anyway the countries which we tried to reform are sometimes even worse after we left.

    So constitutions or not, it does not make any difference. Sorry to say the US is one big island and have little clue on how the rest of the world works and lives.; they run around in circles all the time chasing their own tails.
    Yes, in The Netherlands the people enjoy a much higher standard of living than in the U.S., and you don't see the kind of poverty, hunger and homeless we have in the U.S. In fact, the U.S. has one of the highest rates of child poverty of any industrialized country, while The Netherlands has the lowest.

    You also make a good point about countries where the Europeans and Americans tried to "civilize" or reform. The aftermath of colonialism and/or intervention or nation building has often left the countries worse off. Some are ruled by dictators, some by puppet regimes controlled by the more powerful and rich nations, and so on.

    And you're right that most Americans don't realize all the ways some European countries are more advanced than the U.S., which has fed the idea of "American exceptionalism" and has always resulted in other peoples resenting the "Ugly American" superiority complex. Some Americans need to come off their high horse, and realize that the people of the world are much the same, and that all nations and cultures should be respected as peers.
    .
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Guy Dwyer Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote:
    Guy Dwyer Wrote: Dutch,

    Thanks for trying to make the correction.

    By the way, I agree with you about wars, especially now. The conflicts and wars now are a lot about "religion" (as fundamentalist zealots define it), and about domination, control, trying to gain or maintain power, etc. These conflicts and wars are not like World War II which is considered a "just war" because it was fought and won by those who were against Nazi and Nipponese tyranny and global imperialism.

    It's too bad that the major winners of WWII, the U.S., the U.S.S.R. and Great Britain then proceeded to abuse their power. But then, it seems that is a classic outcome of wars against tyranny. Those who win power by being victorious over tyrannical regimes are usually then corrupted by that power, because power inevitably corrupts, and absolute power inevitably corrupts absolutely.

    That's why humanity needs to allow the inevitable advance beyond fighting for power over each other, whether in war or in partisan political campaigns. It's like the children's game of "King of the Mountain," because the "king" always gets knocked off by another, or by a group, and the competition for the "throne" never ends.

    We need a way to share power, and to ensure the peaceful, popular and gradual transfer of power and stability of government. That's what the 21st Century Declaration of Independence is all about.
    Hey, thanks, you got it right. Sorry to say, since I still look at the US from the outside, that this country puts in way to much effort into "reforming" other countries, instead of themselves. For instance in The Netherlands when I lived there, there were no slums as here, or whole cities with buildings which were only occupied by rats etc. (Detroit) But anyway the countries which we tried to reform are sometimes even worse after we left.

    So constitutions or not, it does not make any difference. Sorry to say the US is one big island and have little clue on how the rest of the world works and lives.; they run around in circles all the time chasing their own tails.
    Yes, in The Netherlands the people enjoy a much higher standard of living than in the U.S., and you don't see the kind of poverty, hunger and homeless we have in the U.S. In fact, the U.S. has one of the highest rates of child poverty of any industrialized country, while The Netherlands has the lowest.

    You also make a good point about countries where the Europeans and Americans tried to "civilize" or reform. The aftermath of colonialism and/or intervention or nation building has often left the countries worse off. Some are ruled by dictators, some by puppet regimes controlled by the more powerful and rich nations, and so on.

    And you're right that most Americans don't realize all the ways some European countries are more advanced than the U.S., which has fed the idea of "American exceptionalism" and has always resulted in other peoples resenting the "Ugly American" superiority complex. Some Americans need to come off their high horse, and realize that the people of the world are much the same, and that all nations and cultures should be respected as peers.
    .
    Thanks, Guy!! I'm glad there are still people here who think like you. Reading the new "thread" from "schmidt" about that "fake" court, really makes me shake my head; he says it is appointed by a Republican without oversight etc, so that whole court is run by Republicans. In other words isObama still in office? I wonder. Sorry to say we are moving inthe wrong direction. Also I saw an add on TV from Ron Paul who wants signatures to abolish the IRS. Shaking my head again. What direction is this country moving? I'll guess I'll have some "tea" with Bush and Obama in Africa that will solve everything.!!
  • Strongly Liberal
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    Seattle, WA
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    Dutch Wrote: Thanks, Guy!! I'm glad there are still people here who think like you. Reading the new "thread" from "schmidt" about that "fake" court, really makes me shake my head; he says it is appointed by a Republican without oversight etc, so that whole court is run by Republicans. In other words isObama still in office? I wonder. Sorry to say we are moving inthe wrong direction. Also I saw an add on TV from Ron Paul who wants signatures to abolish the IRS. Shaking my head again. What direction is this country moving? I'll guess I'll have some "tea" with Bush and Obama in Africa that will solve everything.!!
    I read Schmidt's piece and posted a response. Take a look.

    As for Obama, he's a politician who does what is politically expedient, and of course he is up against people led by demagogues who appeal to emotions, pride, prejudices and arrogant attitudes of superiority.

    I would rather Obama be more like Jefferson, or FDR, or his cousin Teddy before him, but he's not. He believes he can, over time, help the American people see who really are the bad guys, and who are the good guys. The trouble is, in going along to get along, Obama is seen by the Left as one of the bad guys -- and the fact that he continues Bush policies only fuels that perception.

    As for Ron Paul and the Libertarians, I too shake my head. The roots of their ideology is in the John Birch Society of the 1950s, and its branches grew with Reaganism. And in my view that whole ideology is misguided and in violation not only of the Constitution, but in violation of the intent of Jesus of Nazareth, who so many right-wingers claim to follow.
  • Democrat
    Julian, CA
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    I believe that the U.S. Government has become so Fascist, lawless, corrupt and criminally irresponsible and incompetent that the only way the American people can regain their Republic is to have another American Revolution. We could start with a slogan: PURR: PATRIOTS UNITED FOR THE RETURN OF THE REPUBLIC! And the reasons for having such a Revolution could fill volumes.
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    No argument about your description of the US Government...but if you decide to apply for tax-free status, you need to leave the word PATRIOT off the application.

    All due to the IRS scandal, you know...
  • Democrat
    Virginia Beach, VA
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    Hi. This is my first post and I feel bad that it has to take issue with anything. There's a lot to explore there and I'll to al all of it, but the fact is that it is no truer today than it was then that man was "created" AT ALL. Evidence abounds that man is not a "created" being but not to just make it a nit-pick issue straddling both sides of "church and state" there is enormous dysfunction and harm caused by the denial of nature and instead a fundamental "belief" in creation and a creator. Take that out and you take out the foundation for misguided libertarianism that assumes us all born as adults with language and reason already installed where we spend all of out time at 100% of our objectivity and never get tired, hungry, angry or do rash selfish things.

    The real truth now and it was then that we come into the world in a bag of guts as helpless animals with no language, no real reason at least for a year or more, not one of us is the same as anyone else so we are unique rather than "equal"--equal only being an issue of relevance in matter of law--and we are "territorial" beings driven by want and need never at 100% of our peak of objectivity and always somewhere closer to about 10% of it. I understand how hard it would be to try to get this gross mistake out of the Declaration of Independence and it's probably dealt with in better ways like accepting it as a notion of the times and teaching it as a regrettable mistake which already trapped the US partly over the line of mixing Church and State. But truth is truth and faith is faith and every is welcome to their faith. It is however essential to establish any foundation firmly on truth and truth alone. And the truth is we are all unique--nature assures that was can't deny that by the fact that though we have similar anatomy, none of us look exactly the same. What's more, none get to choose their parents, all have unique experiences, and most importantly--and this is something unknown in the time of the drafting of the Declaration--every one of us has a capacity growth dynamic (called neuroplasticity) which assures that none of us is so stupid that with enough effort we can't overcome shortfalls in our understanding. We just don't know yet how much of a difference their is between individuals but there is plenty of evidence to say that race is not any kind of permanent assignment of intelligence.

    There are Americans of all colors and origins at the forefront and at the very rear the "readiness to compete intellectually" spectrum, and an updated Declaration of Independence would do much better to say "we hold these truths to be indisputable that all human beings exist uniquely as the products of a random nature which never pairs perfectly matched gene sources by any kind of design and therefore imperfection and flaw in the individual IS the norm and not the exception."


    Since this is a political and not a scientific document, perhaps that's about as far as it should go to establish that "we the people" ARE NOT EQUAL but NEED EQUAL PROTECTIONS not the least of reasons is that nature is so robust it is unfair to say who is "normal"--many fold are born not even knowing what gender they are. We can fix so much prejudice, bias, bullying and violence by teaching people that flaw is normal, perfection only an illusion because we don't even know what secrets hide in our genes yet to turn us into other than what we appear to be as children. No disrespect.
  • Strongly Liberal
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    Seattle, WA
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    progressiveconnie Wrote: I believe that the U.S. Government has become so Fascist, lawless, corrupt and criminally irresponsible and incompetent that the only way the American people can regain their Republic is to have another American Revolution. We could start with a slogan: PURR: PATRIOTS UNITED FOR THE RETURN OF THE REPUBLIC! And the reasons for having such a Revolution could fill volumes.
    Connie,

    I understand your feelings, and your frustration. But I turn to some very good sources for inspiration.

    One of those sources is the words of the Founders of the U.S.A., because even thought they were in conflict and divided over certain issues, especially the power of banks and corporation, they were mostly of one mind about the need to establish government that is not merely by the consent of the governed, but is actually determined and chosen by the people.

    As it turned out so far, we don't have such a government. But we need to learn or remember that's what the Founders wanted.

    Thomas Jefferson, who along with James Madison established the Democratic Republican Party in opposition to the Federalist Party, tried very hard to keep that vision alive, which is why he is known for what is now regarded as Jeffersonian Democracy. And Jefferson also established the first public schools and wanted to establish free publicly funded higher education as well, because he wanted informed and educated voters, and he wanted all citizens to have equal opportunity to fulfill their highest potential, regardless of their family's financial status.

    Even the Federalist John Adams felt the same way. He wrote: "Government is instituted for the common good; for the protection, safety, prosperity and happiness of the people; and not for the profit, honor, or private interest of any one man, family, or class of men. Therefore the people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government and to reform, alter, or totally change the same, when their protection, safety, prosperity and happiness require.”

    I quote Adams because the second second sentence goes to my point. We, the people, have the perfect right, and the duty, to reform, alter, or totally change our government when it no longer serves our interests or represents us.

    The Founders realized that we would have to do that, which is why they wrote Article 5 of the Constitution. And there is a way to utilize that peacefully, and legally, to establish government of, by and for the people.

    Another source I turn to is spiritual, but it is somewhat hidden in scriptures. That is, it is not recognized by many religious people. But it in fact reveals that we are all equal joint heirs to our inheritance -- our land and country -- and the humble, gentle, kind, generous, peaceful and "meek" majority shall inherit the earth.
    .
  • Democrat
    Virginia Beach, VA
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    sorry, I meant to quote progressiveconnie here

    this forum seems to have bugs


    You're right. But it's possible to achieve a higher form of civilization--one beyond borders and nationalism. As long as nations define the heights of divided power, corruption will return, war-likeness will grab fresh roots.

    We are the beneficiaries of a revolution which has endowed us with powers we don't yet understand which encompass so much there isn't any on person of enough power to grant the permission to use it to observe the grounds of a higher form of civilization. I'm with you on a lot but we must learn that something drove humanity to put 5 trillion dollars and billions of hours into industrializing the mean to our own extinction. I was party to the process to reconcile that and hopefully head the world in a new direction and the United States, which should have been leading, did everything to keep it hushed and paint it a "one world government to be feared". Naively I thought I could a significant messenger in that struggle to rise above the type of being who would put all its eggs in nuclear subs and missile silos to kill each other. But timing is everything and Dick Cheney goosed Bush 41 into Panama and Iraq and the world became what is has become through those actions. Everything that followed was an extension of having the worst possible human being in charge of the biggest sticks on the planet at the time when the choice is between at last glorious peace and the time of doves or continued shadow under the wings of hawks.
  • Strongly Liberal
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    Seattle, WA
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    Safe4Democracy Wrote: " ... it's possible to achieve a higher form of civilization--one beyond borders and nationalism. As long as nations define the heights of divided power, corruption will return, war-likeness will grab fresh roots.

    We are the beneficiaries of a revolution which has endowed us with powers we don't yet understand which encompass so much there isn't any on person of enough power to grant the permission to use it to observe the grounds of a higher form of civilization. ... we must learn that something drove humanity to put 5 trillion dollars and billions of hours into industrializing the mean to our own extinction. I was party to the process to reconcile that and hopefully head the world in a new direction and the United States, which should have been leading, did everything to keep it hushed and paint it a "one world government to be feared". Naively I thought I could [be] a significant messenger in that struggle to rise above the type of being who would put all its eggs in nuclear subs and missile silos to kill each other. But timing is everything and Dick Cheney goosed Bush 41 into Panama and Iraq and the world became what is has become through those actions. Everything that followed was an extension of having the worst possible human being in charge of the biggest sticks on the planet at the time when the choice is between at last glorious peace and the time of doves or continued shadow under the wings of hawks.
    It is indeed very "possible to achieve a higher form of civilization -- one beyond borders and nationalism. And it is also possible to achieve one beyond the "religious" bigotry that also divides humanity.

    However, you seem to imply that America went down hill because of Bush 41, but as I see it the problems America and much of the world suffers from are largely the consequences of Reaganism, which Bush merely expanded and made worse (like Reaganism on steroids), and which even President Obama perpetuates by his cooperation with Wall Street, banks, financial institutions, corporations, and the whole U.S. Religious Military Industrial Complex.

    You may be interested in reading Ronald Reagan's Real Legacy.
    .