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Does Pope Francis' New Announcement Turn Pascal's Wager on its Head?

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  • Center Left
    Independent
    Denton, TX
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    Blaise Pascal put forth Pascal's Wager which argues that all humans wager with their lives that either God exists or God doesn't exist. And with that wager comes either infinite rewards or infinite loss. It is therefore better to wager on the side of the existence of God to avoid the infinite loss scenario as best as possible. Of course, the argument completely falls apart when you consider all the possible gods that there are to worship. It's not a simple 50/50 scenario at all. Plus you would have to consider all the gods that have no even been considered.

    But Pope Francis has added something new to the wager: "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!".. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”

    Which now means that, according to the Catholic Church, that even atheists will be welcome into heaven as long as they are good people. This sort of gets rid of the "infinite loss" scenario all together. I'm not sure if what the Pope said applies retroactively to all atheists who have ever live or only to the ones living now. Guess it would be a little awkward to see the guy you stoned to death for denying the existence of God back in the 15th century suddenly sharing the basketball with you up beyond the pearly gates.

    I wonder how Blaise Pascal would alter his argument knowing that even atheists get into heaven now. As for me, the validation of an organization that hates gays and shelters pedophiles doesn't really make a difference to me.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Zach F Wrote: Blaise Pascal put forth Pascal's Wager which argues that all humans wager with their lives that either God exists or God doesn't exist. And with that wager comes either infinite rewards or infinite loss. It is therefore better to wager on the side of the existence of God to avoid the infinite loss scenario as best as possible. Of course, the argument completely falls apart when you consider all the possible gods that there are to worship. It's not a simple 50/50 scenario at all. Plus you would have to consider all the gods that have no even been considered.

    But Pope Francis has added something new to the wager: "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!".. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”

    Which now means that, according to the Catholic Church, that even atheists will be welcome into heaven as long as they are good people. This sort of gets rid of the "infinite loss" scenario all together. I'm not sure if what the Pope said applies retroactively to all atheists who have ever live or only to the ones living now. Guess it would be a little awkward to see the guy you stoned to death for denying the existence of God back in the 15th century suddenly sharing the basketball with you up beyond the pearly gates.

    I wonder how Blaise Pascal would alter his argument knowing that even atheists get into heaven now. As for me, the validation of an organization that hates gays and shelters pedophiles doesn't really make a difference to me.
    I guess it gets nuttier by the day; first of all atheists do not belief in heaven or an hereafter. So I guess he means to say you guys do not get a GPS to that place, so you get lost and your ghost will float somewhere between Mars and Jupiter. Neither will you be taught to play the harpcicel or sing hallejuja without lungs and lips. Sorry if he wants me to go to heaven then I refuse to sing, but want to drive a Ferrari on perfect paved heavenly roads (kind of difficult without legs, arms, eyes, brain) but in "heaven" everything is possible!!
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    It's nice that the Catholics have reached a new plateau. After all those centuries of thinking THEY are the only ones that could possibly go to heaven, all of a sudden, WE ALL are acceptable through the pearly gates. This is a breakthrough of enormous consequences. Many marriages were not allowed in the past due to one party was not a Catholic. NOW those people can go ahead & get married. Because NOW their spouse will not be forced to go to Hell in the afterlife, while the Catholic spouse could be "beamed up" to the Throne of God. Now, BOTH spouses will be together despite the unholy sin of marrying a (gasp) non-Catholic. I truly am grateful to the Pope for this masterpiece of Forgiveness & Acceptance. Now I hope he will repeat it a few times more, so his entire congregation around the world will Hear it & Believe it. Praise God for the NEW POPE & His new age of Enlightenment.
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    When I was in a Catholic parish elementry school, those very same ideas I would express to my nun/teacher and she would refer me to the parish priest for questioning my faith, I have always thought that God made pagans, heretics, and whomever else the church would brand as different and we were told to stay away from because God would punish me for associating with them,and now since I've become a Christian and read the Bible, a lot of my questions have been answered even though it took the Pope to spell it out for all those clergy members who thought and taught otherwise, thank you Pope Francis.
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    I feel better about dying already!
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    Here's hoping PGR that you are around for quite awhile!
    PS. I think I'll say a prayer for you.
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    Thanks! My dad is 99 and I'm 70. I'll pray for you too, in fact I just opened a new bottle of Cabernet (I may say two prayers).
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Denton, TX
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    eternal flame Wrote: It's nice that the Catholics have reached a new plateau. After all those centuries of thinking THEY are the only ones that could possibly go to heaven, all of a sudden, WE ALL are acceptable through the pearly gates. This is a breakthrough of enormous consequences. Many marriages were not allowed in the past due to one party was not a Catholic. NOW those people can go ahead & get married. Because NOW their spouse will not be forced to go to Hell in the afterlife, while the Catholic spouse could be "beamed up" to the Throne of God. Now, BOTH spouses will be together despite the unholy sin of marrying a (gasp) non-Catholic. I truly am grateful to the Pope for this masterpiece of Forgiveness & Acceptance. Now I hope he will repeat it a few times more, so his entire congregation around the world will Hear it & Believe it. Praise God for the NEW POPE & His new age of Enlightenment.
    Looks like we spoke too soon. A Vatican rep has spoken up to clarify what the Pope meant. He is saying that only Catholics get into Heaven once again. The Rev. Thomas Rosica said that people who know about the Catholic church “cannot be saved” if they “refuse to enter her or remain in her.”

    Yeah, I had plenty of juvenile giggles about that phrasing. So now we are back to nobody goes to Heaven except Catholics. Well, unless they have never heard about the Catholic Church, then they get an excuse pass I think. But if that is the case, why would anyone want to know about the Catholic Church in the first place. Aren't you endangering someone's soul by telling them about it?
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    Since when does the Pope of the entire Roman Catholic following,the Victor of Rome,the Carrier of the Staff of Saint Peter, the infallable One in Matters of Faith,need a spokesperson to say or explain what he meant, is there a rift developing in the Holy See, it seems that some Cardinals are not happy with their selection for Pope, it also appears that his manner of simplicity is pissing them off, devesting himself of the trappings of his position, even the manner in which he disregards the vestments traditional worn by a Pope for more simplier attaire, I hope the Papal Guards have his back?
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    johnnycee Wrote: Since when does the Pope of the entire Roman Catholic following,the Victor of Rome,the Carrier of the Staff of Saint Peter, the infallable One in Matters of Faith,need a spokesperson to say or explain what he meant, is there a rift developing in the Holy See, it seems that some Cardinals are not happy with their selection for Pope, it also appears that his manner of simplicity is pissing them off, devesting himself of the trappings of his position, even the manner in which he disregards the vestments traditional worn by a Pope for more simplier attaire, I hope the Papal Guards have his back?
    As Popes go he seems to be slightly more honest to the world than his predecessors. I still put NO value or importance, let alone truth, in any statements that eminate from the Vatican!
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    pr Wrote:
    johnnycee Wrote: Since when does the Pope of the entire Roman Catholic following,the Victor of Rome,the Carrier of the Staff of Saint Peter, the infallable One in Matters of Faith,need a spokesperson to say or explain what he meant, is there a rift developing in the Holy See, it seems that some Cardinals are not happy with their selection for Pope, it also appears that his manner of simplicity is pissing them off, devesting himself of the trappings of his position, even the manner in which he disregards the vestments traditional worn by a Pope for more simplier attaire, I hope the Papal Guards have his back?
    As Popes go he seems to be slightly more honest to the world than his predecessors. I still put NO value or importance, let alone truth, in any statements that eminate from the Vatican!
    Absolutely right; the only thing they want is like the army, a bunch of robots!! Too bad times have changed, otherwise they still would burn witches.
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    PGR:
    Actions do speak louder than words, but as for truth ,time will tell, again I hope the Papal Guards have his back,or maybe a food taster might be in order.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Denton, TX
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    I wouldn't think that the Cardinals would assassinate the Pope... but stranger things have happened.
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    Zach:
    If they did ,it wouldn't be the first time a Pope died under strange circumstances.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    johnnycee Wrote: Zach:
    If they did ,it wouldn't be the first time a Pope died under strange circumstances.
    I don't thing you should worry; this ain't gonna happen; why? because they all belong to the same circus group; there is enough gold around to bribe even their hero "jesus" !!