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Jane Fonda for woman of the year?

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  • Independent
    Massachusetts
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    ________________________________________

    Subject: Fw: Fwd: Barbara Walters on jane Fonda
    Begin forwarded message:
    Barbara Walters on Jane Fonda:
    Jane Fonda was on 3 times this week talking about her new book. . .
    and how good she feels in her 70's. . . She still does not know what she did wrong. . . Her book just may not make the bestseller list if more people knew.
    Barbara Walters said:
    Thank you all. Many died in Vietnam for our freedoms. I did not like Jane Fonda then and I don't like her now. She can lead her present life the way she wants and perhaps SHE can forget the past, but we DO NOT have to stand by without comment and see her "honored" as a "Woman of the Century."

    (I remember this well.)

    For those who served and/or died. . .

    NEVER FORGIVE A TRAITOR. SHE REALLY WAS A TRAITOR!!

    And now President Obama wants to honor her!!!!

    In Memory of Lt. C. Thomsen Wieland, who spent 100 days at the Hanoi Hilton [infamous North Vietnam prison] --

    IF YOU NEVER FORWARDED ANYTHING IN YOUR LIFE. FORWARD THIS SO THAT EVERYONE WILL KNOW!

    A TRAITOR IS ABOUT TO BE HONORED.
    KEEP THIS MOVING ACROSS AMERICA .

    This is for all the kids born in the 70's and after who do not remember, and didn't have to bear the burden that our fathers, mothers and older brothers and sisters had to bear.

    Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the "100 Women of the Century."

    Barbara Walters writes:
    Unfortunately, many have forgotten and still countless others have never known how Ms. Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country, but specific men who served and sacrificed during the Vietnam War.




    **************************************************
    My Response to the above
    excerpt of an email

    For those who served their country (right or wrong) with dedication in the military --
    and suffered as POWs, the enmity for "Hanoi Jane" is understandable. And now she
    must endure their wrath is a sort of "balance" for what they endured back then even
    in cases due to her advocacy against the war, and even presence in 'Nam.
    That she used her prominence as pulpit to preach condemnation of the war (and
    the undeniable atrocities committed on so many civilians by some of our troops --
    was both brave and deriving from deep ethics . . . . and also a callous and even cruel
    disregard for the young men who served their country's call, even if that entailed falling
    for their country's leaders' frauds.
    Jane was just a headliner "act-ivist" for the massive populace-performance of
    protest against the Viet Nam "war". Remember the protests . . . . . . . and McNamara's
    "pennance" ?
    But she must bear the brunt of those bruised (and so much worse -- eve for their
    lifes' duration) even indirecty due to her words, acts, activism.
    But should it not be given some information for the reader . . on what basis has
    Fonda been chosen for Woman of the Century? Perhaps aside from anything to do
    with 'Nam she spent the many intervening years doing something commendable?
    The "why an honor" should be publicized even by twit or blog . .. as well as
    the "why she's held by many in dishonor..
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    In spite of Ba Ba Walters and others beliefs, Jane Fonda is truly a real American hero!
  • Democrat
    Missouri
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    Jane Fonda and Rodman, two of a kind. Stupidity, desiring the publicity at the cost of American lives. If anyone honestly believes Fonda did not cost American lives, your just as stupid. I still see that released photo shoot of Fonda sitting in the firing chair of an anti-aircraft gun being used to shoot down our pilots. What's next, Rodman pushing the button to fire the nuclear weapon at US interests?

    We used to shoot traitors in a firing squad, today it appears we make them heros in our stupidity.
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    Decades later she finally apologized for her actions during the Vietnam War. So, even she realizes that what she did was wrong, even if many others do not, and it's Ba Ba Wah Wah not Walters.

    To protest the war was not wrong, but some of what she did crossed way over the line.

    Woman of the Year? Even Hitler was Time's Man of the Year, so...
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    Sometimes it takes someone willing to cross the line to force change on Society. I think Fonda probably ended up saving many more American and Vietnam Nam lives because of her forcing the American people to question why were were involved in such a needless, immoral war. Those who blindly supported the war are the real people responsible for the death of so many innocent people NOT Jane Fonda!

    The truth is difficult to face sometimes, but it the end it always shows its face!
  • Democrat
    Tulsa, OK
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    Here is what a friend of mine had to say about Jane Fonda and all the Internet rumors concerning her and the attempts of some to revise the history surrounding her infamous trip to Hanoi:

    http://www.phillipbutlerphd.com/writing/JaneFonda.htm

    <<Memorandum from Phillip N Butler, former Vietnam POW, on the Jane Fonda story:

    (A reply I've sent out many times to well-meaning friends who might have believed the continuing internet mythology about Ms Fonda.)

    I want everyone to know how much I appreciate your support, concern and respect for me and my fellow former Vietnam prisoners of war. But regarding the "Jane Fonda" story, which has been circulating for years on the internet, I feel morally bound to tell you what really took place.

    This Jane Fonda story is totally distorted and overblown. Every time I see it some new embellishment has been added. Jerry Driscoll and Larry Carrigan are both friends of mine. I knew them in the prisons of North Vietnam. Neither of them was tortured as a result of an interview with Jane Fonda. That story is a complete fabrication. No one died as a result of beatings after an interview with her. Furthermore, Jane Fonda was not "nominated" or "elected" as one of the 100 best or whatever women. All of this is nonsense that has been played out on the internet for years now.

    It's true that most returned POW's, myself included, do not look kindly on Fonda because she was photographed on a NVN 37mm gun mount and served as a shill for what was then our enemy. Then she came back home and said we POW's were being treated well. She even continued to deny that we had been treated badly after we came home and almost unanimously certified having been tortured at least once. (95% of our POW's were physically tortured at least once.) I was physically tortured some half-dozen times, once for 30 days. We also suffered malnutrition, diseases, lack of medical care, isolation, exploitation and even death at the hands of our captors. But seeing her recently on TV interviews to promote her book has only reinforced my belief that she is merely an immature, conflicted and spoiled woman.

    I believe there is a more important lesson here though. In my opinion the Vietnam War was a national and humanitarian disaster. It was pointless and we lost it to the Vietnamese, who now control their own country and are in the process of making their own mistakes much like we do from time to time. It is a sad chapter in our history where a lot of very wonderful, courageous and selfless people served and even gave their lives for no good reason - lives on our side and theirs. We lost 58,000 killed and they lost over 2 million. Our will to fight and win has been damaged and their country has been devastated, probably for centuries, by inconceivable destruction and war pollution. We have around 1,500 still missing and they have around 300,000 missing. And incidentally, we still have over 8,000 missing from Korea and 45,000 from WWII. Let everyone understand that we DO NOT always bring our dead and wounded home. War is chaotic hell on earth and people always get left behind.

    Moreover, the real damage of war remains forever in people's hearts. Thus the repeated genesis of internet memos like this one.

    Phillip Butler, PhD>>
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    pgr you are right, it definitely was the blind support of the war which caused it to drag on for so long and those people deserve all the blame they get.

    If we had a draft now, don't you agree that we would have seen more protests of the useless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

    ..."The truth is difficult to face sometimes, but in the end it always shows its face!"... Yes that is true and it is why it took many years for Jane to apologize for her actions. It took a long time, and she has never really appropriately apologized, but on more than one occasion she HAS apologized.

    Yes, it was difficult for her to face the truth, but she finally realized how wrong she was and said so.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jamesn Wrote: pgr you are right, it definitely was the blind support of the war which caused it to drag on for so long and those people deserve all the blame they get.

    If we had a draft now, don't you agree that we would have seen more protests of the useless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

    ..."The truth is difficult to face sometimes, but in the end it always shows its face!"... Yes that is true and it is why it took many years for Jane to apologize for her actions. It took a long time, and she has never really appropriately apologized, but on more than one occasion she HAS apologized.

    Yes, it was difficult for her to face the truth, but she finally realized how wrong she was and said so.
    When this war was fought I was still in the Netherlands; we looked at the news and considered the Yankee's nuts; what a waste of life's. One picture I still remember, a little kid running on a road with a napalm bomb exploding behind her. Be proud of that! Then you have the Bushes and McCains who still think they are hero's; the only thing I can say; Why? what did all these wars solve? Did it make this country any safer? Where do we buy now our sport shoes from? Wake up America
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    If we had a draft today there would truly be insurrection in the streets of the USA.

    The typical American cares nothing for these wars that have been thrust upon us in the past 50 years and the ones that do support them do so because of a misguided patriotism they have been sold by the media and war mongers in Congress!

    Why are we able to keep an active full military force without a draft today - because of young, naive, uneducated kids who can't find a job and are dumb enough to believe they are "serving" their county and are "heroes" because of it! Anyone over the age of 30 knows the real truth whether they want to publicly admit it or not is another question.
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    Dutch I agree with most everything you wrote. You said ..."Wake up America"... and That doesn't seem to be happening. Just remember it's not the American people who get us in these useless wars, it's the politicians that the American people elect who get us in these useless wars.

    I thought we would have learned our lesson after Vietnam, but apparently not.

    I thought we would have learned our lesson after George W. Bush, but apparently not.

    Most of us thought that we had elected a "peace president" with Obama, but apparently not. Better than McCain or Romney, but we are still in Afghanistan and killing more with drones than ever before and accomplishing nothing.

    I wonder if America will ever wake up.
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    pgr I think a little ..."insurrection in the streets of the USA"... might be a good thing. Just the serious threat of cranking up the draft, would get some of our young people fired up about the war, and there's sure as hell not enough of them fired up right now. They do not care because the war does not affect them personally. Hang a draft over their heads and THEN see if they wake up, and I'm betting a lot of them would. Let's figure out a way to give draft priority to kids of the members of Congress, and THEN maybe we could get THEIR attention, too.

    Lots of kids go in the military just to do their time and get a paid college education. Good for them...if they survive the process. In a peacetime military that's not a bad strategy, but now...who knows.
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    Everybody who protested the war was anti-american. Everybody who made fun of Nixon was a communist. The seventies were the nuttiest period in our history. Nobody should take any of what happened too seriously. Nixon, the bicentenial and disco - need I bring up more?
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    Gems I'm not disagreeing with you but: the protestors WERE successful in helping to speed an end to the war in Vietnam.

    The protests were messy, often bloody, but enough politicians ultimately recognized that the war had to end, and in many cases it was the returning Vietnam vets who led the way.

    Where are the protestors of today? A draft would bring them out. I know a draft won't happen now and you know it too, but wouldn't it be great?
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    If a draft would inspire as much music then bring on the selective service draft.
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    Agreed. That is a possible side benefit that I had not considered, and yet another reason to restore the draft.

    Some of the old great protest musicians of the 60's and 70's are still with us and a whole crop of new ones would spring up.