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Sequester and the Air Traffic Controlers and associates

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  • Independent
    Bend, OR
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    Did I just miss something? Seems to me the Air Traffic Controlers missed an opportunity to make a very big statement. Why couldn't they refuse the settlement Congress came up with and demand to do their part as Americans and suffer the sequestor side by side with their peers? It's not too late ! They could solve a very big problem for us all. Congress has gone home, why not strand them there they are not doing anything in Washington........... I'm sure all the other flyers would understand.
  • Independent
    New Hampshire
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    You are kidding, aren't you. Sequester is about our Congress. The Median Salary for Air Traffic Controllers is $89,276. I think anyone who has a chance to keep their job in this situation will be lucky. I believe that the total number of people employed by the government should be reduced by about 25% in a reorganization by combining department and agencies. A full restructure is required.
  • Independent
    New Hampshire
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    You are kidding, aren't you. Sequester is about our Congress. The Median Salary for Air Traffic Controllers is $89,276. I think anyone who has a chance to keep their job in this situation will be lucky. I believe that the total number of people employed by the government should be reduced by about 25% in a reorganization by combining department and agencies. A full restructure is required.
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    I don't think they can legally go out on strike. In 1981 Reagan fired the striking air traffic controllers because their contracts said that they could not strike. They did anyway and suffed the consequences. I am just guessing, but todays controllers probably have the same thing in their work contracts.
  • Democrat
    Missouri
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    Air Traffic Controllers cannot legally strike, however slowdowns could be an argument as an option. Although it is not in the best interest of any Air Traffic Controller to be negligent in performing their jobs, because safety is of the escence. All Controllers know this principle and respects their job to do the very best so that all travelers land and take off safely. They could slow down the pace though of the airspace system, but that would be most recognized by all who travel. So, guess who would be the first to complain.....Congress for sure inhibiting their quick travel to their destinations.

    Congress is so spoiled in their budgetary control over the FAA. How many of you realize how some Air Traffic Facilities get named after Congressman? When the lower 48 states had FAA Flight Service Stations, several were named and funding provided by the Congressman. Strom Thurmand had his own Flight Service Station for a little community in the south because it was his hometown. Senator Grassley is very known to the FAA and he is treated as such because he heads the Transportation Chair and FAA will build what he wants. Today many of those Flight Service Stations went away with Lockheed-Martin assuming the control of this part of the FAA and airspace. The Alaska state is the only FAA Flight Service Stations operating today.

    While working with the FAA you had to be careful on how to respond to a Congressman and it needed favors and simple truths to keep them happy. If you could write something that would blame the other political party that could blow up something you wouldn't like. Congressman would salivate on things that would blame the other party. You had to write simple and allow them to make their own conclusions and just be ready to answer questions. The FAA is a little unknown agency in the government that most do not know how much infrastructure is required to operate and manage an airspace system. There is over 14,000 airports in the United States, which is more airports than the other six largest countries combined in the world. Remote facilities are all over the United States and numbers exceed 5000. Many are on airports and around the airport off property with most on leased real estate. Some citizens receive hundreds and thousands each year for the FAA right to plant their facility on their property. Many times, I had been involved with disputes with a landowner, who wanted more money. The FAA used to condemn the property and take over sole ownership from the original owner. That method can still be accomplished, but takes court actions, which today the FAA just roles over and gives the money. The reason I provide this information is show that it takes a large annual budget to run and regulate the airspace system.

    Because of the funding and opportunities for business, the FAA is being courted by several companies such as, Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, McDonald-Douglas, Raytheon and others for taking over the reins of the whole airspace system. They see a gold in taking over the FAA. Guess what happens when that occurs? Your price to fly sky rockets and battles will occur from which company is a major player at any given airport. You as the tax payer and traveler will get bush-wacked. The public will be telling stories of the past when FAA ran system and costs were significantly cheaper to fly. If you believe that crap about supply and demand, that only works when big business understands it. They want us all in servatude back in the day of medieval times of lords and serfdom.
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    Slowdowns, like strikes are not the answer. The American flying public will be very unhappy with air traffic controllers and yes, Congress, too.

    I speak from personal experience. In 1981 about September, I think, I was on a flight into the USA from overseas and it was about the second or third day of the illegal strike. We were delayed several hours, about 12-16 hours as I remember and a whole 747 full of passengers were steamed and all our anger was directed at the Air Traffic Controllers and their union and I was thrilled when many of them got fired.

    If there is any common sense among the decision makers they will keep the airplanes flying on time and not incur the wrath of the flying public.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jamesn Wrote: Slowdowns, like strikes are not the answer. The American flying public will be very unhappy with air traffic controllers and yes, Congress, too.

    I speak from personal experience. In 1981 about September, I think, I was on a flight into the USA from overseas and it was about the second or third day of the illegal strike. We were delayed several hours, about 12-16 hours as I remember and a whole 747 full of passengers were steamed and all our anger was directed at the Air Traffic Controllers and their union and I was thrilled when many of them got fired.

    If there is any common sense among the decision makers they will keep the airplanes flying on time and not incur the wrath of the flying public.
    I guess all of you got the wrong thinking; we would have never gotten into this situation if we would not have meddled in the rest of the world and start and keep running wars all over; we would be floating in money, now the burden of their fun wars and war goodies gets thrown onto public services etc. Lets start to bring our own household in order before we tell others like Syria what they can do and not do. Start by firing all the Pentagon staff instead of air traffic controllers and deport the whole bunch warmongers in Washington to Syria.
  • Democrat
    Missouri
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    Best response ever, yes I approve of this message from Dutch to send the war mongers to Syria and lets see them fight it out. Blaming Air Traffic Controllers is just a political stunt and ex-president Ragen was just the arrogance needed for a bad situation to get even worst. What most people don't know is that most of those fired Controllers were all hired back, why? Because it takes extensive training to be one and possessing the right stuff to perform at that caliber and you get the public and Congress complaining about having insufficient numbers of Controllers to keep the planes flying and travelers happy. Firing the Controllers was just a political stunt that only achieved embarassment for Congress and the president. The few in the Controllers union that ignored the warnings and called for excessive demands received the worst of the firings, but guess what? The Controllers got their demands and even more after being hired back and continuing their negotiations with the government.

    Face it public, you require the Air Traffic Controllers or else just don't fly. It's like your body needs water, if water costs too much, don't drink it. Eventually the public gets it and gives in to the Air Traffic Controllers. It's a required job in the labor force and is highly paid.

    One of my graduate papers decades ago, I did a study on Artificial Intelligence in Air Traffic Control. To my surprise, it had already been started by doctoral student during the 60's. It was dated material in that it needed to come up-to-date with the newly found material in artificial intelligence. Air Traffic Control is perfect for artificial intelligence, a living program that continues to learn as a human learns. Air Traffic control is rule-based and government funded studies have shown a highly probable case for further development. I assume it continues today. However, do you want to be on the plane that this program makes a mistake, which even a human being can make, but a software program making the mistake is publically unacceptable. So for the time being, Air Traffic Control will be done by human beings with future tools coming into the environment that may be something like Artificial Intelligence, but will still be human intervention heavily monitoring the safety of airspace travel. Even Artificial Intelligence will cost as much if not more than using human beings to do similar work. An example is Gates Microsoft company that even the hint of libility of contributing to a catastrophic plane crash the cost of any artificial intelligence software controlling the airspace would be very costly.

    Face it public and government, you require Air Traffic controllers, just pay them, continue their great benefits and have a happy flight.
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    Amc I did hear that some of the fired controllers were eventually rehired, I'm happy for them and it just makes sense to do so since they had all that experience. I do hope that none of their leadership that was responsible for the strike was rehired. They should have been jailed before being rehired for leading so many employees into an illegal strike that cost them their jobs.

    I think maybe the controllers learned a lesson because I am not aware of a strike since the episode in 1981.

    The current ATC "crisis" seems to be a purely political one, and completely manufactured just to make political points.
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    Dutch, once again we disagree, nothing new there.

    You say: ..."if we had not meddled in the rest of the world...we would be floating in money"... and I don't think so, I think our government would still find plenty of ways to waste our money on other things. I do not think our Congress could live without over-borrowing and over-spending. They are as hooked as a drug user.

    Yes we COULD be swimming in money if we could keep Congress' hands off it, but that won't happen even if we were to get out of all the wars and end all the meddling. And we both know that won't happen either.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jamesn Wrote: Dutch, once again we disagree, nothing new there.

    You say: ..."if we had not meddled in the rest of the world...we would be floating in money"... and I don't think so, I think our government would still find plenty of ways to waste our money on other things. I do not think our Congress could live without over-borrowing and over-spending. They are as hooked as a drug user.

    Yes we COULD be swimming in money if we could keep Congress' hands off it, but that won't happen even if we were to get out of all the wars and end all the meddling. And we both know that won't happen either.


    I do not disagree; you do!! But the way you put it; you "agree" with how they mismanage our tax money. So just put your head in the sand and praise these by us (both Democrats & Repub's) voted in waste heads. You consider this thus "normal"?
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    I don't see how you think I ..."agree"... with the mismanaging of our tax money. I hate it, I hate them, I hate everything about our corrupt system. Once more just in case you do not understand: I DO NOT AGREE WITH HOW THEY MISMANAGE OUR TAX MONEY!

    I do not consider any of it ..."normal"... but I do recognize that it is business as usual in Washington. It is what we have. It is so corrupt, so out-of-control, so damaging to our country that our own politicians and their rampant over spending are as big a threat to our country as the terrorists.
  • Democrat
    Missouri
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    Does anybody remember the $2000 hammers and $200 toliet seats? There is so much corruption in the Government it would take another government agency just to identify and keep data on all this going on. The problem is bigger than most people are aware. What we hear in the news media and folks like us that retired from the government is just a small percentage of the all greed and power that corrupts the best of those in Washington, D.C. There's so much money transferring from one account to another that unless your the best accountant in the world and have the inside tract on deals going on in the government, you still would be unable to grasp what a taxpayer looses. It is massive in size of spending and controls our very well being. If this money machine shuts down, we all suffer. Most all business has a direct connection for government help or handouts. We discussed a topic not long ago on hypocrites. Think about all the agriculture going on that accepts government assistance, banks that fault that get government help and even businesses that fail. These people that are found guilty by the courts for running a bad business or embezzelment get a fine and maybe jail time, but do you think they really are punished. What happen to Enron exec's? They living in luxury on some island get away enjoying the good life. Some other poor sucker got the major penalty for their bad business and corruption. The real people in charge are like chamelons and hard to track. When the media gets too close, they go into some change that makes it difficult to continue tracking.

    Our Government is tied closely to some 20 major corporations that control everything that goes on. Its not a movie, it's real. These corporations and the very few that exercises the agenda of our world dictates what really goes on. An example and a good question to ask is if Halliburton was not involved in the Iraq war using their man Cheney, would the war had happen? I don't think it would have. I'm sure you all can come up with your own questions using the auto industry, steel mills, coal mining, drug manufacturing, airspace companies and of course oil companies. Don't forget our favorite the No Real Authority (NRA) group. The NRA teathers around many in Congress using many of them like puppets.

    I think the general public will not be surprised, but will be disgusted when they find out some hidden truths. Have you ever heard the comment, "I wish I was a fly on the wall", thats for listening and seeing all the evil thats going on. It's a public mistrust that would be exposed.
  • Independent
    New Hampshire
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    AmcmurryFreedom: Yes the War would have still happened. If you remember the first reason for going to war with Iraq was they were responsible for 911. It didn't matter that al-Qaeda was not allowed to enter Iraq. It appears the War would happen with the only thing missing was a reason. Each time a reason was presented for an invasion and proved wrong it was replaced by another in minutes. I believe the last excuse was because he was not a good person.
    The hammers and toilet seats are a completely different story not having much to do with corruption. We have what is called Mil Specs. They can be useful if applied properly. There are differences in various specs toilet tissue, for example, has several specs and the cost per roll is determined by the spec applied.

    The next President will most likely be a Republican as President Obama has been unable to fix the economy. We now have to keep our eyes on India and China.

    I figure some of you will enjoy this as it is a bulk Email sent out from Speaker Alert SpeakerAlert@messages.speaker.gov Speaker Boehner

    How did the Obama flight delays last week get resolved? House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee Chairman Bill Shuster (R-PA) explains it all in the Weekly Republican Address. Shuster also notes that while the Obama administration is implementing its sequester in the most painful way possible, Republicans are making responsible cuts in the House of Representatives.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jamesn Wrote: I don't see how you think I ..."agree"... with the mismanaging of our tax money. I hate it, I hate them, I hate everything about our corrupt system. Once more just in case you do not understand: I DO NOT AGREE WITH HOW THEY MISMANAGE OUR TAX MONEY!

    I do not consider any of it ..."normal"... but I do recognize that it is business as usual in Washington. It is what we have. It is so corrupt, so out-of-control, so damaging to our country that our own politicians and their rampant over spending are as big a threat to our country as the terrorists.
    Quite simple; I "pulled one on you" you did the same on me; so quite funny, so do not get upset and be too serious; just have some fun !!!