Forum Thread

Gun Control

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    conservativecat Wrote: jaredsxtn abortion stats have dropped - you're right. Pro life is winning the fight slowly, but surely. Still, we're killing what, 650,000 unborn babies? That's pretty high compared to what, 35,000 gun deaths ?

    No, people are just getting better sex education and contraceptives are easily accessible for everyone, especially lower income Americans.

    Another thing that drives me nuts about you pro=lifers (although I hate that term. I prefer anti-women's rights) is how you claim that a woman is "killing" a baby when she makes a potentially life saving decision to terminate her pregnancy.

    conservativecat Wrote: and more guns were sold under Obama in 8 years than every in the history of the US ........... more guns = less crime right ?

    Sold to the same people 4-5% of Americans over and over again who have convinced themselves that they will be able to fight back against the big bad government if only they had a small arsenal of weapons at their disposal.

    I find it laughable how gun nuts have convinced themselves that they would actually win a fight against a military that has fighter jets and 50-kiloton bombs.

    Social scientists have a handful of theories as to why gun violence has dramatically declined in the past four decades and none of them have to do with a smaller number of people owning more guns. That's probably because that theory defies logic. Two interesting theories have arisen though - the reduction of lead in our nations pipes and painting supplies and the fact that people no longer carry as much hard currency on them as they used to.

    conservativecat Wrote: You think making it harder for a crazy to get a gun in the US is going to deter him/her? really ?

    Yes and dozens upon dozens of peer-reviewed studies back me up. But who am I kiddin? When have Donald supporters cared about facts?

    conservativecat Wrote: The 2nd was designed in a time where the Govt didn't fear the people. Citizens killed each other in 1700's just like they do today - its just not glamorized in the news and high profile.

    Somebody needs a history lesson...

    conservativecat Wrote: Constitutional Rights - I am against messing with them, if we mess with the 2nd, then we mess with all them - the precedence is set

    Aren't you the same person calling for restrictions on voting and invasions of privacy in order to make sure a vote is legit? Have you ever read the 4th, 14th, 24th, and 26th Amendments?

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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: jaredsxtn said:

    "No, gun deaths and gun violence are not on the rise. The fact is that we are living in the most peaceful time this country has seen in nearly four decades."

    So why do we need gun control??

    Because I'm someone who thinks it's wise to always be thinking of ways to make our country safer for the people who live here.

    Chet Ruminski Wrote:

    Rising gun violence fuels crime surges in many cities, FBI says

    USA Today › story › news › 2016/09/26

    Sep 26, 2016 - WASHINGTON — Overall violent crime in the U.S. increased by nearly 4% last year, the ..

    I look at decades of statistics and don't cherry pick one year with a statistically insignificant blip.

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    I said gun violence is increasing and I have said some of the reasons why. Furnishing contemporary data to support what I have said about contemporary conditions is not cherry picking information from a multi year spread. And what about the opiod crackdown. I say it is a cruel attack on addicts and it will cause more, continued and escalating gun violence.
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    No, people are just getting better sex education and contraceptives are easily accessible for everyone, especially lower income Americans.

    can you prove the above?

    Another thing that drives me nuts about you pro=lifers (although I hate that term. I prefer anti-women's rights) is how you claim that a woman is "killing" a baby when she makes a potentially life saving decision to terminate her pregnancy.

    Its very simple - a pregnancy is a living human female and a living human unborn. It ends when you kill one or both of them, or when the baby is born. That's it - simple. Abortion is killing an unborn human. Justify it if you want, but at least call it what it is instead of dehumanizing.

    That said, if you can prove to me an unborn baby isn't a living human being as part of the pregnancy, I'll move to your side gladly.

    Sold to the same people 4-5% of Americans over and over again

    can you prove that ?

    I find it laughable how gun nuts have convinced themselves that they would actually win a fight against a military that has fighter jets and 50-kiloton bombs.

    so easy enough to destroy ISIS isn't it ?

    conservativecat Wrote: You think making it harder for a crazy to get a gun in the US is going to deter him/her? really ?

    Yes and dozens upon dozens of peer-reviewed studies back me up. But who am I kiddin? When have Donald supporters cared about facts?

    important part here ........ its hareder than its been in a LONG time to get a gun .......... in most states private party selling/giving and there is no record of the transaction.

    laws and rules and roadblocks in Chicago work great don't they ? I notice you don't want to talk about that crap place of a city

    Aren't you the same person calling for restrictions on voting and invasions of privacy in order to make sure a vote is legit? Have you ever read the 4th, 14th, 24th, and 26th Amendments?

    absolutely ! We have background checks on guns, lets do it for voting. We have license checking when buying a gun, lets do it for voting. Lets NOT allow illegals to buy guns - that's CRAZY ... and lets NOT allow illegals to vote either.

    I'll apply all the gun restrictions right now to voting and call it win-win

    You with me? Deal ?

    jaredsxtn you don't own a gun, right? when you are out and about, or in your home, at church or a ball game or festival ...... what protects you from being the victim of a criminal who points a gun at you? serious question

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    conservativecat Wrote:

    No, people are just getting better sex education and contraceptives are easily accessible for everyone, especially lower income Americans.

    can you prove the above?

    Very easily. The Guttmacher Institute has the best peer reviewed study available about the massive abortion decline and it proves exactly what I am saying. Better sex education and easy access to contraceptives are directly responsible for the precipitous decline in abortions.

    It also proves that there is no correlation between the decline in abortions and new laws restricting a woman's access to an abortion. In fact, the states who have made it safer and more accessible for women to receive an abortion have seen larger declines in their abortion rate (even adjusted for population) than states who have passed restrictive laws.

    To quote the researchers in the study: "Fewer women had abortions in 2011 than in 2008 because fewer women became pregnant when they did not want to.”

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    the earth warmer gradually through those years too ... maybe that's the reason ? Very Happy

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    very first thing in your link there

    CONCLUSIONS

    The relationship between abortion access, as measured by the number of clinics, and abortion rates is not straightforward. Further research is needed to understand the decline in abortion incidence.

    it also clearly says things like

    Seven of the states that experienced the largest proportionate declines in clinics also experienced a larger than average decline in the abortion rate.

    it is unclear whether the most recent decline in abortion is due to fewer women's having unintended pregnancies, more women's being unable to access abortion services or some combination of these dynamics.

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    If all the families who lost loved ones because of gun violence would sue the gun manufacturers and the NRA members (one million each member) that would be a great way to get rid of this whole tragic problem since these NRA members don't give a damn how many innocent people are killed then make them pay big time.

    The NRA members qualify for the sociopathic, soulless, degenerate award of the year each year.

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    conservativecat Wrote: Its very simple - a pregnancy is a living human female and a living human unborn. It ends when you kill one or both of them, or when the baby is born. That's it - simple. Abortion is killing an unborn human. Justify it if you want, but at least call it what it is instead of dehumanizing.

    That said, if you can prove to me an unborn baby isn't a living human being as part of the pregnancy, I'll move to your side gladly.

    Do you understand that there is a massive difference between an embryo and a fetus?

    If an embryo was a living human unborn [sic] then it would be able to survive outside of a mothers womb regardless of when it was removed from the womb. That is why abortion is legal until an embryo is viable, meaning it can live outside of the mothers womb.

    conservativecat Wrote: Sold to the same people 4-5% of Americans over and over again

    can you prove that ?

    I was mistaken. It's actually three percent.

    Three percent of Americans own 50 percent of all guns in America - Concentration of gun ownership in America

    conservativecat Wrote: I notice you don't want to talk about that crap place of a city

    Spoken like a true-blue, God fearing Christian.

    I lived in Chicago for many years before moving out to Portland. Do you know what I did there? I was a social worker who devoted my life to disadvantaged youth living in some of the toughest neighborhoods in the city. I've spent countless hours, days, and months in some of the toughest parts of the city working with kids with the goal of making their lives better.

    I'm so damn sick and tired of Donald supporters trashing people and places they have never been to nor know anything about. I often wonder how people like you are able to look at themselves in the mirror without throwing up.

    conservativecat Wrote: absolutely ! We have background checks on guns, lets do it for voting. We have license checking when buying a gun, lets do it for voting. Lets NOT allow illegals to buy guns - that's CRAZY ... and lets NOT allow illegals to vote either.

    I'll apply all the gun restrictions right now to voting and call it win-win

    You with me? Deal ?

    Did you seriously just call for everyone to go through a background check before being able to exercise their right to vote?

    conservativecat Wrote: you don't own a gun, right? when you are out and about, or in your home, at church or a ball game or festival ...... what protects you from being the victim of a criminal who points a gun at you? serious question

    I don't live my life in fear. What protects me is common sense. If someone pointed a gun at me and asked for my wallet (which, by the way, I never carry any hard currency in) then I'd just give him my wallet and go call my bank to let them know my wallet was stolen. If someone points a gun at me, wouldn't it already be too late anyway? Don't you think the person with the gun pointed at my face would just shoot me if I grabbed for my sidearm?

    As I said earlier - I spent years working in inner-city Chicago and never once felt unsafe or feared for my life. I was never held up, harassed, or anything of the like. And I'm about as white as they come.

    This perpetual fear you gun nuts live in must be exhausting. Always thinking someone is after you. Always thinking a big bad black guy is hiding around the next corner just waiting to take your wallet and rape your lady. I almost feel bad for you guys.

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    conservativecat Wrote:

    very first thing in your link there

    CONCLUSIONS

    The relationship between abortion access, as measured by the number of clinics, and abortion rates is not straightforward. Further research is needed to understand the decline in abortion incidence.

    it also clearly says things like

    Seven of the states that experienced the largest proportionate declines in clinics also experienced a larger than average decline in the abortion rate.

    it is unclear whether the most recent decline in abortion is due to fewer women's having unintended pregnancies, more women's being unable to access abortion services or some combination of these dynamics.

    I actually take the time to read and understand entire studies and not just cherry pick a couple sentences on a cover sheet...
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    progressiveconnie,

    There is never going to be any law passed that has an influence on the gun deaths and gun violence. In the last 30 years of gun control there has not been passed any gun control law that has reduced gun violence or gun deaths but contrarily there are more guns in more places with more people carrying more guns with more liberal restrictions than any time in history. No matter how tragic gun deaths are and I maintain that they are going to accelerate what can be wrong with quadrupling the police presence. You paint a dramatic picture of the gun deaths and tragedy and I see more of it all the time. Quadrupling police presence has the best chance of reducing gun violence but it seems all anti gun people are also anti police presence people. Why not exchange the gun deaths and misery for quadruple the number of police?

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    Three percent of Americans own 50 percent of all guns in America - Concentration of gun ownership in America

    a sample size of 4,000 is itty bitty isn't it?

    If all the families who lost loved ones because of gun violence would sue the gun manufacturers and the NRA members (one million each member) that would be a great way to get rid of this whole tragic problem since these NRA members don't give a damn how many innocent people are killed then make them pay big time.

    sue the company of the maker of the weapon ........ so if someone used an automobile to kill we could sue Ford? If they used Chicago Cutlery we could sue them? Louisville Slugger bats we sue them?

    You want to do that, seriously ?

    The NRA members qualify for the sociopathic, soulless, degenerate award of the year each year.

    good 'ol name calling, what do you think about Hillary surrounding herself and Bill and Chelsea with guns?

    If an embryo was a living human unborn [sic] then it would be able to survive outside of a mothers womb regardless of when it was removed from the womb. That is why abortion is legal until an embryo is viable, meaning it can live outside of the mothers womb.

    connect the dots - a woman pregnant with a non-viable child has a non-living person in her, right? That's NOT a pregnancy ... you cannot be pregnant with something that isn't alive ! Once a pregnancy begins - there is two living humans there. There cannot be one not living or its not a pregnancy.

    I've traveled this whole country - I worked one winter downtown CHI and hated it - never had a problem just didn't like the city.

    What do you think the problem is there? They can't legally have guns, right? There are literally dozens of laws saying they cannot use guns to kill people.

    They do it anyway - and we blame the gun ?

    Did you seriously just call for everyone to go through a background check before being able to exercise their right to vote?

    isn't that what you want to do with the 2nd ? what's good for it can be good for other Amendments too, right ? The power of voting can be argued as more important than owning a gun - it can dictate how a country goes for 4 or 8 years even.

    This perpetual fear you gun nuts live in must be exhausting. Always thinking someone is after you.

    uh .... I thought it was your side that was fearful of people having guns? See above posts

    I read it all too - its inconclusive per that site.

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    conservativecat Wrote:

    wwjd so abolish the 2nd Amendment? maybe we need license for freedom of speech and religion too? a license to vote maybe ?

    Its not clear why would we want to do anything of those things. Can you explain further why this makes sense to you?

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    jaredsxtn Wrote:

    Another thing that drives me nuts about you pro=lifers (although I hate that term. I prefer anti-women's rights) is how you claim that a woman is "killing" a baby when she makes a potentially life saving decision to terminate her pregnancy.

    That is a good way of stating it. Its misconception that Plan Parenthood's promotes abortions as the best\only solution for all problems related to pregnancies, when their real goal is to provide help to women who come to them, and give them options. I believe women who have abortions do so as a last resort choice based on their life circumstances.

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    Its not clear why would we want to do anything of those things. Can you explain further why this makes sense to you?

    The left hate people having guns - they want only Hollywood, Politicians, police/military and criminals to have them. That's what you have in Chicago and big cities right now.

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    Now we can argue all day intent - but its pretty clear they wanted everyone to be able to speak their minds, have fair trials, not have Govt intrusion, have a Democratic Republic government, have the freedom of religion .... see where this is going ?

    FREEDOM - and the 2nd days don't infringe on it.

    in·fringe

    inˈfrinj/

    verb

    act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on

    I'm gawd awful sick - will respond later guys