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Steve King R-Iowa, CPAC speaker on Vietnam War

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    johnnycee Wrote: To PGR:

    I am sorry that you feel that way about our Veterans, I was told not to wear my uniform home upon my separation from active duty because of abuse's that other returning Vets suffered, I did not wear mine home for I was really tired of fighting and conflict and all I wanted to do was see my family, have a few beers and of course get laid, once people in bars realized that I was a veteran returning home from that war, a conversation always to ensue,to begin they seemed to think that I knew of all the reasons way I was there and if I didn't then I was some kind of an idiot or a war monger, what usually followed was me getting into a free for all and being flagged from the bar, it never dawned on these people I lost some very cherished friends and more than that ,true comrades, and I resented being labled like that, to this day I don't drink in bars as often as I once did, and much like this man steve king, who for some reason considers himself a type of expert on that war policy a man who has never seen someone intent on killing him as much as I wanted to kill them, never beenin a 10 minute fire fight that lasted for what seemed like hours,especially when you knew you were outmanned ,and you prayed for the Cobra's or any gun ship in the area for that matter,to either save your ass or get you out of there, so for this man to claim that something was lost because of the military just shows me a person attempting to pander to a crowd to push his own agenda. Very few people like war and what war brings, but always remember that those soldiers answered their countries call and went to fight a war that the politicians felt was just, you can hate the war but why hate the veterans, why not hate the failure of the politicians who would'nt admitt to a mistake and let the Generals fight the wars, and leave the peacemaking to the politicians.
    I fully agree with PGR; a war which never should have been fought; anyone who entered the military at that time should have realized that Vietnam never invaded us or did something like 9/11 to us. It means thinking came on the last place; hipe and playing Rambo on the first place!!!
    But at least you buy now your sport equipment and shoes from there. Do not forget all the simple poor Vietnammese we killed; they are totally forgotten. We ruined a whole country: did they ruin anything here? I guess not.
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    I am enjoying these posts --- very important topic. I had an uncle go over to VietNam, even though he was told he had a very high number & maybe would never have to go. He had some wild stories to tell, & had post traumatic problems for a long time afterwards, but he was one of the finest men I have ever met. Due to exposure to agent orange, etc he died prematurely. Even though he survived VietNam. We all told him to move to Canada if he wished, as we did not want him harmed due to an illegal war. But he insisted on doing his duty. That's a real war hero.

    This link below has FACTS about the VietNam war that a lot of us never knew. You may have heard bad things about Jane Fonda, but one thing that is true, is that she is a real patriot, a very intelligent woman, & she knows more about Viet Nam from experience & from her studies, than many college professors probably know. She quotes from the Pentagon Papers, & from personal interviews, with Prisoners of War. She has put her own life on the line to speak to POW's in a war zone. And she fought the war with facts & lectures & protests. The right wing who will never admit that the VietNam war could ever have been unnecessary, or should never have been fought, will call her "traitor" -- but if you hear anything bad about Jane Fonda, just look the rumor up at SNOPES.com --- which is a Fact checking website to expose false rumors. They will tell you that the usual lies put out by the right wing are FALSE about Jane Fonda. But let her speak for herself on this Video. It is worth the time to listen.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLvnDXZZ5u0
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    Dutch':
    Your entitled to your opinions but back then most 18 year olds didn't know squat about politicians and how they lie and also most of us had family members who fought in either WW II or Korea, so joining the service was always the right thing to do ,of course in hindsight and since hindsight is always 20-20, it is easy to see and reason away the purpose of the war if there was any,but to try and shame the returning vets for doing what they belived was their patriatriotic duty was just wrong, my memories of jane fonda are very different than yours and I'll just leave that alone because I can't change your perspective of her and neither can you change mine. The Vietammese were being killed and exploited long before we got there,although that doesn't make it right, if we had not intervened,the North would have still done what they did "75" only it would have happened in "64", that is human nature.The Diem government was as corrupt as one can be and yet our politicians supported them, why, because China and their puppet North Viet Nam government didn't, do you really believe that that either side gave a damn about the peasent in rice paddies, they had to feed both the NVA and Viet Cong,then what was left,they fed their families. But the protesters here were focusing their anger and frustration from not being able to reach the politicians and convince them of the wars folly so they vented on the returning vets instead, which brought even more confusion and chaos to the very vocal youth of this country. This is what I believe was wrong.
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    I hope someone will look at my link (above) on Jane Fonda, since there is some REAL GOOD information that most of us have never heard, and she is really a person of importance in the Viet Nam era. As you know, she was married to Ted Turner, who is the founder of the CNN global network and he is a great patriot too. He does lots of philanthropy for the environment, & preserves our film age history also. Two great achievements.

    Jane Fonda risked her life just as much as any soldier when she went to Viet Nam, & unarmed, & almost alone, she talked to the enemy face to face, knowing that any minute they could have imprisoned her or killed her. She took careful note of conditions of the POW's and asked them questions about their treatment. She gathered notes from the POW's to take back to the US to their families. But most important, her very presence in that hell hole, (a woman they all recognized) gave them hope, that the US knew where they were, & were making contact to try to get them rescued. She was a beacon of light in the darkness. The govt had to send a famous person to talk to them, because if they sent some anonymous secretary from DOD, the soldiers would not recognize them, & be afraid that was a shill sent to "trap" them. While she was there, she saw that women were also fighting over there, & women also were armed. She saw that they had underground bomb shelters under their grass huts. She found out what kind of crops they grew & how they all made a living in the villages. What their attitudes were about the USA. She got important information that could be used to help rescue the POW"s and make important contacts with the troops. SHE WAS A HERO. But she had to do it anonymously since the govt does not always want the enemy to know what they are doing. While there, Jane Fonda made an international radio broadcast to America to say a few things to our govt, about the location of our troops, their treatment by the enemy, & other important details. This was all in the interest of our military and the way to End the War, which was called "intelligence gathering" if done by one of our US soldiers. But if done by one single unarmed American lady, who risked her life for those troops, it was called "treason" by some of our most unenlightened brain-washed people. I HOPE people have become more sophisticated in their opinions in the modern era. If the TRUTH be told, Jane Fonda should have gotten a MEDAL for Valor.
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    I hope someone will look at my link (above) on Jane Fonda, since there is some REAL GOOD information that most of us have never heard, and she is really a person of importance in the Viet Nam era. As you know, she was married to Ted Turner, who is the founder of the CNN global network and he is a great patriot too. He does lots of philanthropy for the environment, & preserves our film age history also. Two great achievements.

    Jane Fonda risked her life just as much as any soldier when she went to Viet Nam, & unarmed, & almost alone, she talked to the enemy face to face, knowing that any minute they could have imprisoned her or killed her. She took careful note of conditions of the POW's and asked them questions about their treatment. She gathered notes from the POW's to take back to the US to their families. But most important, her very presence in that hell hole, (a woman they all recognized) gave them hope, that the US knew where they were, & were making contact to try to get them rescued. She was a beacon of light in the darkness. The govt had to send a famous person to talk to them, because if they sent some anonymous secretary from DOD, the soldiers would not recognize them, & be afraid that was a shill sent to "trap" them. While she was there, she saw that women were also fighting over there, & women also were armed. She saw that they had underground bomb shelters under their grass huts. She found out what kind of crops they grew & how they all made a living in the villages. What their attitudes were about the USA. She got important information that could be used to help rescue the POW"s and make important contacts with the troops. SHE WAS A HERO. But she had to do it anonymously since the govt does not always want the enemy to know what they are doing. While there, Jane Fonda made an international radio broadcast to America to say a few things to our govt, about the location of our troops, their treatment by the enemy, & other important details. This was all in the interest of our military and the way to End the War, which was called "intelligence gathering" if done by one of our US soldiers. But if done by one single unarmed American lady, who risked her life for those troops, it was called "treason" by some of our most unenlightened brain-washed people. I HOPE people have become more sophisticated in their opinions in the modern era. If the TRUTH be told, Jane Fonda should have gotten a MEDAL for Valor.
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    If Jane did all these acts of valor, than why did she feel she had to make an apology to the American people and all the military she felt died because of her actions? It doesn't make sense. The CIA and military had a tremendous amount of knowledge on North Vietnam. They didn't need Ms. Fonda to pursue her own agenda, much like Rodman is doing with North Korea.

    If it is true that the actions of Ms. Fonda and Rodman are good for America, than let's send all the celebrities (actors, actresses and professional sport people) over first to these countries. Let's start with Somalia, Iran, Libya, Egypt, Syria and Pakistan, and oh yes, North Korea. Send them with the intent to gather as much information they can as Jane supposedly did in North Vietnam. I wonder how long it will take and how much money it will cost to get them back, hopefully alive with all their ears and fingers attached.

    It appears that a few of you like PGR feel that Vietnam was a conflict we all should have known before we signed up. Apparently, you all don't understand what fighting for your country means when duty, honor and freedom is on call. America was built on these traditional character traits and for our country I pray that duty means, "to God and Country", honor means, "it is a privilege to serve my fellow Americans", and for freedom is well, "you have your right to speak your mind, however it may infringe on my beliefs".

    A hardy "THANK YOU" for serving our Armed Forces to all. It is privilege to write this and admire all who serve in our wars and conflicts. It is not about Democrat or Republican, right or wrong, and Christian/Islam/Jewish/Hindu/Budda/others, we all took up arms to safeguard rights, liberty and we hoped for a pursuit of justice against those who invade humanity. There's always time for justice after for those who falsely persuaded our geniune sacrifice to our country and found guilty of treasonous acts. Those that used greedy agendas to send our men and women in harms way, you will pay dearly, someday. Since I am of Christian belief, than that judgement day is reserved for God, All Mighty. I feel good for my service as other service men and women should do. It's more than just a job, it's a faith in common humanity to stand against inhumanity.
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    Thank you for expressing my sentiments much more eloquently than I could ever do. I served as well as many others quite honorably and we didn't deserve to be spit on just to show the disidents dis-satisfaction with our Governments Foreign policy.
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    johnny,
    I now know that I didn't agree with the war but that's not your problem. I thank you for serving our country and I'm glad you came home safely.
    Dutch,
    Iraq didn't invade us either. Wait, I don't think that Korea invaded us either. I know that Germany didn't invade us. Now Japan did invade us. All war sucks. Hopefully we can go forward without more young men and women losing their lives because of what idiot politicians decide.
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    I am sorry but I believe that war will always be with us, although some feel that the use of drones and other computer guided weapons will bring the down the loss of life as far as our troops are concerned,but I am concerned that by making the concept of war into some type of real time video game and by taking the horror of war out of the mainstream thought process will allow the powers that be to make the decision to go to war a lot easier. My shrink told me a long time ago that there is reason why bullets,rockets,jets and most instruments of war are shaped the way they are, boys with toys, and also who has the bigger one.
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    Sorry my post managed to get posted twice. I have tried to delete one without much luck. But on the TOPIC of who is anti-war and why, and our great admiration for all the troops who served honorably -- WE ALL AGREE that the soldiers deserve our most heartfelt gratitude, & they also deserve to get their due veteran's benefits (including healthcare when they get home). My uncle got home alive, but died very young due to exposure from agent orange over in Viet Nam. Years later, we found out that the Tonkin Gulf incident was totally bogus. (The major reason we supposedly went to war). We have all seen the movies like "Hamburger Hill" where they sent our soldiers up some slimey muddy hill over & over again, getting massacred by the thousands, just to claim a hill, that they would abandon a day later, & then have to return to the scene to claim it over again. It was mostly irrational what tactics were used, not realizing the enemy had tunnels underneath all the villages & even into our Army camps. We had firebases all around the area at perimeter & our soldiers were sent there all alone like sitting ducks, waiting to get shot at. Meanwhile, they let VietNam women onto the base to do laundry & other services for the boys. The whole war was a hell hole, & if you read Jane Fonda's comments on it you can get a better idea than our media and news reports ever discussed. But all her words are based on very reliable govt documents like the Pentagon Papers.

    For those who think it is "evil" to protest a war, (but claim to be a Christian) you must be awfully conflicted in your beliefs on any war, since the Prince Of PEACE (named Jesus) said "Blessed are the Meek, Turn the other cheek, beat your swords into plows & Do not make War anymore." The Bible also says "Thou shalt not kill." and "BLESSED are the PEACEMAKERS, for they shall be called the children of God."

    War is supposed to be conducted purely in Self Defense, if wrongly attacked by a foreign power. We are not supposed to stomp around the globe, stealing natural resources from other countries (like stealing oil in IRAQ) -- for purposes of greed and conquest. That is just WRONG for our nation to stoop so low & become as bad as our enemies. God has given us freedom & prosperity because we were doing his will on the earth, & being a friend to the world, to the environment, & to help other nations achieve their own freedom & prosperity. The minute we began an agenda of conquest, for stealing resources, & greedy manipulation of global affairs, including unnecessary wars, & accumulation of enough weapons to kill off the whole world 7 times over, We stopped being favored by God. We lost that privileged status. Which means we will never again WIN unless we wake up to the evil of the Military Industrial Complex. It will do ANYTHING to establish perpetual WAR, so it can gain power & financial control over our government. The war machine is pure evil, & corrupt to its very core. It leads only to Armageddon, the FINAL WAR, which will annihilate mankind off the face of the earth, and it will probably be for stupid & fraudulent reasons. // By the way, the word "Armageddon" is a real geographical place, (the Plains of Megiddo), which is in Palestine or Israel. (The doubt comes in as they rearrange their maps over there occasionally). But we will be lured into a battle between Israel and Palestine, which will destroy the world. The Bible predicted this thousands of years ago, & how did they know we would still be mired in that mess all this time later? It is MORE than just 2 nations, but it is a battle between Islam & Judaism also. And since we are a Christian nation, the religion of Christ is allied with the Israeli Jews against the Palestine (Muslims). When asked why he hated the USA, Osama bin Laden said it was due to the United States always took the side of Israel against Palestine. This was written in a Fatwah by Osama binLaden.

    The FINAL WAR, and the END OF THE WORLD. Did you know there is someplace that predicted that when we had the Final Pope, that would signal the End of the world? There are also supposed to be other "signs" of the End. Lots of Wars going on all over the world, there will be earthquakes in much greater numbers, pollution in the ocean killing 1/3 of all living creatures in the sea, (like the Gulf oil spill, & the radioactive debris from Japan Fukishima nuclear power plant polluting the whole Pacific Ocean from Japan to west coast of USA). New plagues & diseases will be unleashed on all mankind. (Aids & HIV). There will be "signs in the sky" -- like stars & planets falling down. (asteroids & comets?) Lots of sea creatures are beaching themselves since they cannot live in the ocean. (Whales, dolphins, etc). Breakdown in trust between nations, so now we have young dictators like North Korea threatening to "nuke" the USA with a pre-emptive strike, just because Geo W. Bush did so in 2003 in IRAQ. (a war crime). The final Judgment Day will come when we will be chosen to go to Heaven or Hell. Depending on "how you treated your fellow mankind." This was described in detail in the BIBLE (New Testament) [MATTHEW 25:31 - 46]. --- Also, See: REVELATIONS. (End times).
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    johnnycee Wrote: Dutch':
    Your entitled to your opinions but back then most 18 year olds didn't know squat about politicians and how they lie and also most of us had family members who fought in either WW II or Korea, so joining the service was always the right thing to do ,of course in hindsight and since hindsight is always 20-20, it is easy to see and reason away the purpose of the war if there was any,but to try and shame the returning vets for doing what they belived was their patriatriotic duty was just wrong, my memories of jane fonda are very different than yours and I'll just leave that alone because I can't change your perspective of her and neither can you change mine. The Vietammese were being killed and exploited long before we got there,although that doesn't make it right, if we had not intervened,the North would have still done what they did "75" only it would have happened in "64", that is human nature.The Diem government was as corrupt as one can be and yet our politicians supported them, why, because China and their puppet North Viet Nam government didn't, do you really believe that that either side gave a damn about the peasent in rice paddies, they had to feed both the NVA and Viet Cong,then what was left,they fed their families. But the protesters here were focusing their anger and frustration from not being able to reach the politicians and convince them of the wars folly so they vented on the returning vets instead, which brought even more confusion and chaos to the very vocal youth of this country. This is what I believe was wrong.
    My excuses; I was in Europe at that time; so my perspective is quite different than yours; therefore i'll stick to my opinion. You are trying to talk something straight while it is n't. The point is even nowadays that the US keeps meddling in other countries. In theory every country has to dance to the US tune. At that time communism was preached as being something the devil created it etc. and we have to fight it all over the globe; now we support it and do daily bussiness with it ( f.i. China); talking about hypocrites. So in other words all the people killed in Vietnam do not really count, because we still have not learned from it; we are still trying to change the whole world to think and live like us; if not than we will get the "media" to start a campaign and keep the pressure on either via money or other means.
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    eternal flame Wrote: Sorry my post managed to get posted twice. I have tried to delete one without much luck. But on the TOPIC of who is anti-war and why, and our great admiration for all the troops who served honorably -- WE ALL AGREE that the soldiers deserve our most heartfelt gratitude, & they also deserve to get their due veteran's benefits (including healthcare when they get home). My uncle got home alive, but died very young due to exposure from agent orange over in Viet Nam. Years later, we found out that the Tonkin Gulf incident was totally bogus. (The major reason we supposedly went to war). We have all seen the movies like "Hamburger Hill" where they sent our soldiers up some slimey muddy hill over & over again, getting massacred by the thousands, just to claim a hill, that they would abandon a day later, & then have to return to the scene to claim it over again. It was mostly irrational what tactics were used, not realizing the enemy had tunnels underneath all the villages & even into our Army camps. We had firebases all around the area at perimeter & our soldiers were sent there all alone like sitting ducks, waiting to get shot at. Meanwhile, they let VietNam women onto the base to do laundry & other services for the boys. The whole war was a hell hole, & if you read Jane Fonda's comments on it you can get a better idea than our media and news reports ever discussed. But all her words are based on very reliable govt documents like the Pentagon Papers.

    For those who think it is "evil" to protest a war, (but claim to be a Christian) you must be awfully conflicted in your beliefs on any war, since the Prince Of PEACE (named Jesus) said "Blessed are the Meek, Turn the other cheek, beat your swords into plows & Do not make War anymore." The Bible also says "Thou shalt not kill." and "BLESSED are the PEACEMAKERS, for they shall be called the children of God."

    War is supposed to be conducted purely in Self Defense, if wrongly attacked by a foreign power. We are not supposed to stomp around the globe, stealing natural resources from other countries (like stealing oil in IRAQ) -- for purposes of greed and conquest. That is just WRONG for our nation to stoop so low & become as bad as our enemies. God has given us freedom & prosperity because we were doing his will on the earth, & being a friend to the world, to the environment, & to help other nations achieve their own freedom & prosperity. The minute we began an agenda of conquest, for stealing resources, & greedy manipulation of global affairs, including unnecessary wars, & accumulation of enough weapons to kill off the whole world 7 times over, We stopped being favored by God. We lost that privileged status. Which means we will never again WIN unless we wake up to the evil of the Military Industrial Complex. It will do ANYTHING to establish perpetual WAR, so it can gain power & financial control over our government. The war machine is pure evil, & corrupt to its very core. It leads only to Armageddon, the FINAL WAR, which will annihilate mankind off the face of the earth, and it will probably be for stupid & fraudulent reasons. // By the way, the word "Armageddon" is a real geographical place, (the Plains of Megiddo), which is in Palestine or Israel. (The doubt comes in as they rearrange their maps over there occasionally). But we will be lured into a battle between Israel and Palestine, which will destroy the world. The Bible predicted this thousands of years ago, & how did they know we would still be mired in that mess all this time later? It is MORE than just 2 nations, but it is a battle between Islam & Judaism also. And since we are a Christian nation, the religion of Christ is allied with the Israeli Jews against the Palestine (Muslims). When asked why he hated the USA, Osama bin Laden said it was due to the United States always took the side of Israel against Palestine. This was written in a Fatwah by Osama binLaden.

    The FINAL WAR, and the END OF THE WORLD. Did you know there is someplace that predicted that when we had the Final Pope, that would signal the End of the world? There are also supposed to be other "signs" of the End. Lots of Wars going on all over the world, there will be earthquakes in much greater numbers, pollution in the ocean killing 1/3 of all living creatures in the sea, (like the Gulf oil spill, & the radioactive debris from Japan Fukishima nuclear power plant polluting the whole Pacific Ocean from Japan to west coast of USA). New plagues & diseases will be unleashed on all mankind. (Aids & HIV). There will be "signs in the sky" -- like stars & planets falling down. (asteroids & comets?) Lots of sea creatures are beaching themselves since they cannot live in the ocean. (Whales, dolphins, etc). Breakdown in trust between nations, so now we have young dictators like North Korea threatening to "nuke" the USA with a pre-emptive strike, just because Geo W. Bush did so in 2003 in IRAQ. (a war crime). The final Judgment Day will come when we will be chosen to go to Heaven or Hell. Depending on "how you treated your fellow mankind." This was described in detail in the BIBLE (New Testament) [MATTHEW 25:31 - 46]. --- Also, See: REVELATIONS. (End times).
    Flame, I totally agree with your opinion, regardless of that I'm an atheist.
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    Hi Dutch: Thank you for saying that. It was so gentlemanly of you. I really appreciate it, no doubt.
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    Hello PGR: I just read the link you provided for "Truthout, atrocities of Viet Nam War" "Kill Everything that Moves" --- that was a really astounding piece. i remember hearing that John Kerry (now secretary of State) was nearly crucified for telling the TRUTH to investigators after the Viet Nam War.
    It seemed that veterans of that war were so ashamed of what they did, or else they were in emotional "denial" about it all, that they totally refused to admit that any atrocities occurred, & accused Kerry of "lying." That man was put through Hell just because he told the truth, that there were lots of atrocities going on thru-out the entire War. YOUR ARTICLE STATED that deaths of civilians were in the millions, lots of deaths were done to innocent villagers just carrying agricultural implements, trying to gather food. One part of the investigation found that massive numbers of women were being raped over there by our soldiers. One case, a soldier drove the butt of his rifle into a woman's face because she was scolding him for breaking into her village & disturbing old residents. He smashed it into her nose, & walked away laughing as blood gushed from the wound. U.S. soldiers set off several claymore mines on a group of civilians, just walking along with some limes to eat, in their own village. Atrocities beyond accountability went on every single day, because no guidelines were given when taking orders to "shoot everything that moves." This of course included killing innocent women & children. It gets even worse when battle was easier, with Death from Above being rained down on innocent non-combatants from our helicopters.

    Incidence reports number in the hundreds of thousands, even though huge numbers of reports have "disappeared" or been discarded, or conveniently "lost" -- in the decades of time since the Viet Nam War. Making it impossible to accurately estimate the numbers of DEAD VietNamese, & the huge numbers also of wounded, crippled, blinded, & amputated people of VietNam. This report indicates that there was widespread systematic killing going on, with full approval of our govt, never being punished or paid attention to, & that does not even begin to indicate the devastation we did with our constant "napalm" attacks, destroying their trees, forests, croplands, & villages. [May God forgive us]. When interviewed NOW, there are many soldiers who will freely admit the atrocities that they committed & saw committed by others. But fear of imprisonment kept them silent for many decades. It would be nice if some of them "apologized" to John Kerry for their making him out to be a LIAR, while they KNEW he was only speaking the Truth.

    For those who can handle it, the "link" to PGR's article is on his earlier post -- on this topic page.