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Keep your ugly fingers off my Constitution

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  • Independent
    Plymouth, WI
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    The NRA has led many to believe we have to change the United States Constitution, that is exactly what the lobby system wants you to want suckers. Do you not think the NRA is making billions for the system? Think again if you don't know this, look at the billions in guns sales the NRA has created alone!

    Shall I go on proving that yes indeed the system loves the NRA, especially now that they have convinced so many that we need to change the Constitution, ok, I will go on then; one of President Obama's first words when he took office his first term, "our Constitution is outdated." Of course he is going to say this, since our Constitution is the only thing standing between the majority and the ones that own our politicians, all of our politicians. Don't think I am picking on President Obama, it is not his fault, he didn't create the system that owns the government nor can he stop it alone, nor can any one politician alone stop the money system. There is only one leader alive today that tried to stop the money system, the rest got murdered? Only a united majority can stop the money lobby system, as long as we have the present Constitution that is! Trust me, if the Constitution changes because of the NRA, you can bet the Constitution will be changed to take all of the majority's power over the government away.

    No the majority has never used the powers of the Constitution to control the government, one reason, the fact that they are there. But it has become very clear that we need to use the Constitution now today, yes the founding fathers knew this present would come, for sure the time to use the founding fathers instructions to run the government is now, before the best Constitution in the world is gone for good! That is just what the system has convinced many to want, touch my Constitution with their system guided ugly fingers.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    unitedmajority Wrote: The NRA has led many to believe we have to change the United States Constitution, that is exactly what the lobby system wants you to want suckers. Do you not think the NRA is making billions for the system? Think again if you don't know this, look at the billions in guns sales the NRA has created alone!

    Shall I go on proving that yes indeed the system loves the NRA, especially now that they have convinced so many that we need to change the Constitution, ok, I will go on then; one of President Obama's first words when he took office his first term, "our Constitution is outdated." Of course he is going to say this, since our Constitution is the only thing standing between the majority and the ones that own our politicians, all of our politicians. Don't think I am picking on President Obama, it is not his fault, he didn't create the system that owns the government nor can he stop it alone, nor can any one politician alone stop the money system. There is only one leader alive today that tried to stop the money system, the rest got murdered? Only a united majority can stop the money lobby system, as long as we have the present Constitution that is! Trust me, if the Constitution changes because of the NRA, you can bet the Constitution will be changed to take all of the majority's power over the government away.

    No the majority has never used the powers of the Constitution to control the government, one reason, the fact that they are there. But it has become very clear that we need to use the Constitution now today, yes the founding fathers knew this present would come, for sure the time to use the founding fathers instructions to run the government is now, before the best Constitution in the world is gone for good! That is just what the system has convinced many to want, touch my Constitution with their system guided ugly fingers.
    Yes I can follow you, but regardless of what you say; you can of course keep the original document intact. Any Amendmend's are only added like an adendum, which is done all the time. Furthermore I doubt if an NRA can make changes at all, it has to go through a very long process in our government and verified by our justices. This happens seldom and then only in the form of Amendmends.

    Do not forget that there are plenty of laws and regulations which stand alone and are used daily which are totally independend of the Constitution.
    You are faced with these daily.
  • Independent
    Dover, TN
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    I have to admit, I'm lost. What is your post about? I'm not aware of the NRA wanting to change the Constitution. I'm aware that they are a large lobbying power. There numbers in membership are the power behind their punch, founded upon donations. I'm not aware of who makes the largest donations, I can only speculate that some would come from special interest. As I understand it, the NRA is pro Constitution. If I'm mistaken please enlighten me.
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    As an NRA voting member I don't ever recall Wayne or any other member of the NRA Executive Board of Directors advocating changes in the Constitution.
  • Independent
    Plymouth, WI
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    Boone and Johnnycee,

    Forgive me if I was a bit miss leading with my words, Dutch has seen many of them and understands where I am coming from. It is not the NRA its self that wants to touch the constitution, it is because of the NRA that so many think the Constitution needs to be re-written, the 2nd Amendment.

    If the Constitution is changed because of the 2nd Amendment, more changes will happen and after it is all said and done, the majority will be powerless and the best Constitution in the world will be dead dead dead. Our Constitution is the only thing keeping the government from becoming a complete dictatorship, the system is using the NRA as a reason to put their ugly fingers into motion, many on this site are all for it too.

    Dutch,

    I am glad you realize, we can have gun laws without changing the Constitution. No the NRA is not a real political force to stop new gun laws, if they were, where were they when the Federal government past the recent law saying "if you so much as have an arguement with your wife or anyone else in your home, you are committing Domestic Disorderly Conduct and you can no longer have the right to bear arms, not even a musket." Yes everyone will have an arguement at home, yet this is the law! No the NRA did nothing to prevent this injustice and proved they are powerless, but their existence alone is giving the system new life to change the Constitution.

    Johnnycee,

    I too would still be a NRA member, but they are extremist now who refuse to compromise, just like the Dems and Republicans are doing today, not compromising. When a Democracy can no longer comprises, it can no longer exist, paving the way for a military rule or worse. The talks of this are in the air, just listen a bit closer to our leaders and you will hear.
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    It does seem now that any organization while trying to adhere to its orginal mission also developes a extreme faction and also very local one at that, but your right about non-compromising policies of our political parties,both seem to think that the art of compromise is an indictation of weakness on ones part and as such must be exploited to an even greater advantage, this why compromise has become a dirty word not to be uttered, another word for compromise is negoiate, my way or the highway approach is a waste of time and is counter-productive.
  • Independent
    Plymouth, WI
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    johnnycee Wrote: It does seem now that any organization while trying to adhere to its orginal mission also developes a extreme faction and also very local one at that, but your right about non-compromising policies of our political parties,both seem to think that the art of compromise is an indictation of weakness on ones part and as such must be exploited to an even greater advantage, this why compromise has become a dirty word not to be uttered, another word for compromise is negoiate, my way or the highway approach is a waste of time and is counter-productive.


    "A sign of weakness" this is crazy, compromise is the very meaning of Democracy, I guess it is clear, our politicians are moving away from Democracy, what is the next stop then, military rule, China rule?
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    unitedmajority Wrote:
    johnnycee Wrote: It does seem now that any organization while trying to adhere to its orginal mission also developes a extreme faction and also very local one at that, but your right about non-compromising policies of our political parties,both seem to think that the art of compromise is an indictation of weakness on ones part and as such must be exploited to an even greater advantage, this why compromise has become a dirty word not to be uttered, another word for compromise is negoiate, my way or the highway approach is a waste of time and is counter-productive.
    "A sign of weakness" this is crazy, compromise is the very meaning of Democracy, I guess it is clear, our politicians are moving away from Democracy, what is the next stop then, military rule, China rule?
    "military rule"? Sure I have that feeling already; with all means possible they try to sqeeze out of the sequester cut backs, in which they probably succeed. So in other words they rule, not us.
  • Democrat
    Meridian, MS
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    Boone Wrote: I have to admit, I'm lost. What is your post about? I'm not aware of the NRA wanting to change the Constitution. I'm aware that they are a large lobbying power. There numbers in membership are the power behind their punch, founded upon donations. I'm not aware of who makes the largest donations, I can only speculate that some would come from special interest. As I understand it, the NRA is pro Constitution. If I'm mistaken please enlighten me.
    Boone, I think you are right in saying the NRA doesn't want to change the Constitution. That is because of the way they have guided Congress to interpret it, especially the 2nd Amendment. This is what needs changing, the 2nd Amendment. Again, because of its (2nd Amendment) vagueness, or ambiguity would be a better word, a simple "tweaking" by Congress to make it more suitable for our country's citizens today, really just a modernized version of what the founders were trying to do way back in the 1700s for the citizens here then.
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    I find nothing vague about the Second Amendment, I think its short ,sweet and to the point " A well regulated Milita, being necessary to the security of a Free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms,shall not be infringed'. I see no ambiguity or vagueness in that statement, what I do noticed however ,is that so many of our citizens are being told that it is vague and confusing, only problem is that the people telling that tale are the ones confused, they in turn are telling other people that they are also confused,and since many of them have not looked or read the Second Amendment, they now fall in line rather than admitt that they hav'nt read the document, now throw in those groups with an agenda for gun-control and you now have a movement. You cannot tweak the Constitution to suit the changing societial times,if you do decide to change the Constitution then in effect what you want is another firm of governing rather than the one you now have.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    unitedmajority Wrote:

    If the Constitution is changed because of the 2nd Amendment, more changes will happen and after it is all said and done, the majority will be powerless and the best Constitution in the world will be dead dead dead. Our Constitution is the only thing keeping the government from becoming a complete dictatorship, the system is using the NRA as a reason to put their ugly fingers into motion, many on this site are all for it too.
    I whole heartily agree with the majority of your argument united, but I would take issue with the above paragraph. It is extremely hard to change our Constitution and that is on purpose. I have not heard much discussion about some's desire to alter the Constitution, so I'm hesitant to express an opinion about that topic, but whatever talk of altering our Constitution is being done by individuals that don't necessarily understand the complexities of making that talk a reality. There is a reason that the Founders made it hard to change the document and I don't see how an argument about assault rifles will lead to it being changed.

    Besides the complexities of actually adding an Amendment to the Constitution, I am not sure that an Amendment to take away one of the Bill of Rights would even be allowed under our Constitution. It's a document I have read hundreds of times and I wouldn't have a guess as to if it would be allowed or not. It doesn't explicitly say that it doesn't allow them to be repealed, but it does say that the Bill of Rights are guaranteed as inalienable rights. I would be hesitant to believe that 2/3 of the House and Senate and then 3/4 of the States voting in the affirmative would allow any of those rights to be stripped from them.

    Like I said, I agree with pretty much the entirety of your argument but believe that the American people would never vote to have their inalienable rights taken from them. On the other hand, our Government and multinational corporations have done a tremendous job EXPLOITING our Constitution to their advantage and the only true people that we can then blame is US. We citizens have become lazy with regards to our Governing structure and have pretty much allowed our Government to become the way that they are. It is now on us to change it. If you think it's impossible, just look at former Presidents like Teddy Roosevelt that went after the major corporations and broke apart the major railroad companies of the time. It can be done again, but we as a citizenry have to make it happen.
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    I believe that part of the system that is in place to allow new or amended articles is that one, it takes a call for a Constitutional Congress to be convened, then two full different sessions of Congress votes on the proposed amendment after every State has its own Constitutional Congress with its own vote , I think there is still more protocals then I mentioned, but it shows that the process is not quick or short, but rather lengthly and burdensome, and thats how it should be, changing Constitutions or even amending an existing Amendment is a very serious matter and should not be propelled by emotions.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    johnnycee Wrote: I believe that part of the system that is in place to allow new or amended articles is that one, it takes a call for a Constitutional Congress to be convened, then two full different sessions of Congress votes on the proposed amendment after every State has its own Constitutional Congress with its own vote , I think there is still more protocals then I mentioned, but it shows that the process is not quick or short, but rather lengthly and burdensome, and thats how it should be, changing Constitutions or even amending an existing Amendment is a very serious matter and should not be propelled by emotions.
    It's actually pretty simple, yet extremely difficult to achieve. In order to add an amendment to the Constitution the Congress has to vote 2/3 in the affirmative of said amendment and then the states have to vote 3/4 in the affirmative. The only other way to amend the Constitution is by a process that has never been used before--in which a Constitutional Convention is called by two-thirds of the state legislatures, which can offer any amount of amendments that they wish. If they agree on these amendments, then three-fourths of the states has to approve of whatever amendments they recommend.
  • Independent
    Plymouth, WI
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    michaels39301 Wrote:
    Boone Wrote: I have to admit, I'm lost. What is your post about? I'm not aware of the NRA wanting to change the Constitution. I'm aware that they are a large lobbying power. There numbers in membership are the power behind their punch, founded upon donations. I'm not aware of who makes the largest donations, I can only speculate that some would come from special interest. As I understand it, the NRA is pro Constitution. If I'm mistaken please enlighten me.
    Boone, I think you are right in saying the NRA doesn't want to change the Constitution. That is because of the way they have guided Congress to interpret it, especially the 2nd Amendment. This is what needs changing, the 2nd Amendment. Again, because of its (2nd Amendment) vagueness, or ambiguity would be a better word, a simple "tweaking" by Congress to make it more suitable for our country's citizens today, really just a modernized version of what the founders were trying to do way back in the 1700s for the citizens here then.
    I understand your very simple logic in this matter, but it really isn't that simple I don't think. Think what the Tea beggers in Alabama would be saying, not to mention the NRA if we try to fix the Second Amendment.

    I think the Second Amendment works just fine, yes we have guns today, but we are not allowed to have the best guns of today, like a full automatic assualt riffle.
    The Government makes gun laws and the NRA does not stop them with the rights given in the 2nd Amendment. Such as the law that takes our guns away if we argue with our wife or other family members, "Domestic Disorderly" that charge takes your gun rights away, all you have to do is get into an arguement at home and your guns are gone. I don't think the Government needs any more power than making laws like this about guns, as far as I can tell, the 2nd Amendment does not keep the government from making gun laws, do you see where I am coming from? If the government wants a new gun law, they will get one, at least it seems.
  • Independent
    Plymouth, WI
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    unitedmajority Wrote:

    If the Constitution is changed because of the 2nd Amendment, more changes will happen and after it is all said and done, the majority will be powerless and the best Constitution in the world will be dead dead dead. Our Constitution is the only thing keeping the government from becoming a complete dictatorship, the system is using the NRA as a reason to put their ugly fingers into motion, many on this site are all for it too.
    I whole heartily agree with the majority of your argument united, but I would take issue with the above paragraph. It is extremely hard to change our Constitution and that is on purpose. I have not heard much discussion about some's desire to alter the Constitution, so I'm hesitant to express an opinion about that topic, but whatever talk of altering our Constitution is being done by individuals that don't necessarily understand the complexities of making that talk a reality. There is a reason that the Founders made it hard to change the document and I don't see how an argument about assault rifles will lead to it being changed.

    Besides the complexities of actually adding an Amendment to the Constitution, I am not sure that an Amendment to take away one of the Bill of Rights would even be allowed under our Constitution. It's a document I have read hundreds of times and I wouldn't have a guess as to if it would be allowed or not. It doesn't explicitly say that it doesn't allow them to be repealed, but it does say that the Bill of Rights are guaranteed as inalienable rights. I would be hesitant to believe that 2/3 of the House and Senate and then 3/4 of the States voting in the affirmative would allow any of those rights to be stripped from them.

    Like I said, I agree with pretty much the entirety of your argument but believe that the American people would never vote to have their inalienable rights taken from them. On the other hand, our Government and multinational corporations have done a tremendous job EXPLOITING our Constitution to their advantage and the only true people that we can then blame is US. We citizens have become lazy with regards to our Governing structure and have pretty much allowed our Government to become the way that they are. It is now on us to change it. If you think it's impossible, just look at former Presidents like Teddy Roosevelt that went after the major corporations and broke apart the major railroad companies of the time. It can be done again, but we as a citizenry have to make it happen.
    I hope you are right about the Constitution being safe from change. Yes I heard our President suggest that our Constitution is out dated in the beginning of his first term, now people are saying our Constitution is dead dead dead. Yes we have the best Constitution in the world for the majority, this is why lobby controlled politicians say words like dead when it comes to the majority favored Constitution.

    Your last paragraph is very important to me. I agree 100 percent with your words. Yes it is up to us to do something, and you are right, we sat back while our government was infested with lobbiest control, leading to our present, jobs being sent to a communist country and our jobs being done by the modern day slaves here and in Mexico. None of this is acceptable to the majority, yet our politicians did exactly that, crazy. For sure it is far past time for our majority to get off our lazy attitude when it comes to governing our country. As far as us ever getting another president like Teddy that does not get shot, I think those days are long past, it is up to the majority to take a stand against the out of control system, they can’t shoot all of us right?