Forum Thread

Not Guns, But Ammo

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  • Democrat
    Meridian, MS
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    What about approaching the automatic and assault weapons limitation from the viewpoint of the ammunition itself? When I googled "U.S. Rifle Ammunition Manufacturers", I received the following data: While the heading itself said 41 companies, only the following were listed: 1. A-1 Livonia, Mi.
    2. y Pear Ammo & Reloading LLC, Tuscon, Az.
    3. Copper Creek Cartridge Company, Rosebud, Mo.
    4. Liberty Ammunition Inc., Clearwater, Fl.
    5. Elite Ammunition Harvard, Il.
    6. Advanced Ballistic Systems, Inc, Prescott Valley, Az.
    7. Mac Ammo Whitmore, Lake, Mi.
    8. Bliss Advertising and Design, Inc. Weston, Wy.
    9. Firestone Precision Ammunition Mound House, Nv.
    10. Acu Sport Corporation, Duluth, Ga.
    11. American Pisto,l Cullman Al.
    12. Army Ammunition Depot, Hawthorne, Nv.
    13. ATK Ammunition Systems, Clearfield, Ut.
    14. Badger Army Ammunition Plant, North Freedom, Wi.
    15. Ballard Unit, Kingsville Tx.

    It sure seems to me that it would just be easier and simpler to legislate against the sale of the ammunition to any U.S. locale for both of these types of weapons, UNLESS it was both a military order and a military location for that delivery. At the same time, this legislation could and should ban the import of this type of ammunition.

    Wouldn't this be at least a major step toward slowly reducing the number of these weapons used in attacks/killings in our country? I realize that there are already millions of these rifles out there, as well as ammunition for them, but with no additional ammunition coming into the pipeline, just maybe people would conserve what they have and keep these weapons for those "just in case" situations that the NRA is constantly reminding us of: for self/home protection. As often as these warned occasions occur, the current ammunition supply would probably last for ages.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    michaels,
    Not only would the current supply of ammunition last for years, but, legislation stopping the availability of consumers to purchase that ammunition would put an undue hardship on those companies. It goes against free trade and the right to transact business.
    I like your idea, I just don't think that it would legally work.
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    Mcclellan is right there is enough stockpiled ammo to last for decades, and banning it will just drive the price up, not to mention that it would be smuggled into the country if the price increased enough to make it profitable and it definitely would. I guess we could seal our borders against smuggling ammunition, but it would be about as effective as the seal of our borders against smuggling drugs. And we all know how well THAT works.

    People have been stockpiling ammo for decades and since President Obama's election it has only increased, his reelection and the recent gun ban talk has made it even worse.

    The legislation will not pass and even if it did it would not be effective.
  • Democrat
    Meridian, MS
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    I sure understand your concerns and objections guys, but I was just hoping that this might offer a new and different approach of addressing the issue. If we cannot limit the sale or ownership of guns OR ammo, then why not just stop all efforts and discussion and let the issue proceed unchecked, or at least as unchecked as it is today?
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    michaels don't get it wrong, I am not against legislation against guns or ammunition, I am just stating the obvious: it will not solve the problem. It may help some so I will support it but I realize that it will only help a little. Some people actually beleive that new laws or restrictions will solve the entire problem.

    When a product is illegal (marijuana) the price is higher, quality control is lower, but the demand does not go away and the profits are made by the criminals and the same would happen with ammunition.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    I agree. We would all love a way to stop the madness but it's too late. We'll never get 50 million assault weapons back let alone 300 million - and that number goes up every day - I agree that it won't hurt to pass any new legislation that might get through. It's better to throw a little water on a fire compared to none. I would suggest massive increases in the penalties for crimes committed with a gun. In the mass killings, the crazies seem to be killing themselves. No complaint there. We can try to increase security in certain places. Nothing to lose there.

    As far as ammunition goes, I believe you can buy the supplies and make your own at home with a little bit of guidance.
  • Independent
    Plymouth, WI
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    michaels39301 Wrote: What about approaching the automatic and assault weapons limitation from the viewpoint of the ammunition itself? When I googled "U.S. Rifle Ammunition Manufacturers", I received the following data: While the heading itself said 41 companies, only the following were listed: 1. A-1 Livonia, Mi.
    2. y Pear Ammo & Reloading LLC, Tuscon, Az.
    3. Copper Creek Cartridge Company, Rosebud, Mo.
    4. Liberty Ammunition Inc., Clearwater, Fl.
    5. Elite Ammunition Harvard, Il.
    6. Advanced Ballistic Systems, Inc, Prescott Valley, Az.
    7. Mac Ammo Whitmore, Lake, Mi.
    8. Bliss Advertising and Design, Inc. Weston, Wy.
    9. Firestone Precision Ammunition Mound House, Nv.
    10. Acu Sport Corporation, Duluth, Ga.
    11. American Pisto,l Cullman Al.
    12. Army Ammunition Depot, Hawthorne, Nv.
    13. ATK Ammunition Systems, Clearfield, Ut.
    14. Badger Army Ammunition Plant, North Freedom, Wi.
    15. Ballard Unit, Kingsville Tx.

    It sure seems to me that it would just be easier and simpler to legislate against the sale of the ammunition to any U.S. locale for both of these types of weapons, UNLESS it was both a military order and a military location for that delivery. At the same time, this legislation could and should ban the import of this type of ammunition.

    Wouldn't this be at least a major step toward slowly reducing the number of these weapons used in attacks/killings in our country? I realize that there are already millions of these rifles out there, as well as ammunition for them, but with no additional ammunition coming into the pipeline, just maybe people would conserve what they have and keep these weapons for those "just in case" situations that the NRA is constantly reminding us of: for self/home protection. As often as these warned occasions occur, the current ammunition supply would probably last for ages.
    Don't you know, the same ammo used at sandy hook is the same ammo our military uses? When I was in, I may of taken 499 rounds of ammo home with me, when my squad was the last one on a live fire range, we were given way more ammo than we needed, simply because the ammo needed to be shot up, because it was too much paper work to turn it back in. I shot off so many rounds with my M 16, when they called seize fire, I did what I was supposed to do, put my M 16 on safe, and hold the barrel up and down range, that is when I experienced the first cook off I ever saw, the chamber of my M 16 was so hot, it cooked off the gun power in the next round and cause my weapon to fire. Yes I gave it my best shot to shoot up the ammo, but I still had 499 rounds left, which I could have taken out in empty law tubes, inside of my gas mask and maybe other secret spots.

    Not only does "every" soldier have access to the assault riffle ammo you want band, but there are single shot riffles and bolt action riffles that use this same ammo. All you would reduce with such a ban, is target practice, the ones that want to kill with it will save it for killing.
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    jamesn Wrote: Mcclellan is right there is enough stockpiled ammo to last for decades, and banning it will just drive the price up, not to mention that it would be smuggled into the country if the price increased enough to make it profitable and it definitely would. I guess we could seal our borders against smuggling ammunition, but it would be about as effective as the seal of our borders against smuggling drugs. And we all know how well THAT works.

    People have been stockpiling ammo for decades and since President Obama's election it has only increased, his reelection and the recent gun ban talk has made it even worse.

    The legislation will not pass and even if it did it would not be effective.
    And boy oh boy has fire fighting become interesting. We recently had a house go up and when the guys approached the stored ammo started going off and the result was a controlled burn(from a safe distance).
  • Other Party
    South Bend, IN
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    Many guns that are not assault weapons use the same rounds. A cousin of mine has a double barreled gun that shoots the same ammunition as the M-16. Why not just ban all ammunition? Make it illegal to have more than three ounces of gunpowder in your possession? Then there wouldn't be any, anywhere, once the stockpile has been shot up. We all know that this worked very well with marijuana, alcohol, heroin, cocaine and crystal meth. Make all the guns paperweights.

    One of the proposed assault weapons bans several years back would have made any firearm that had at any time been issued by any military illegal and also any weapon that could be made to fire automatically (full auto with one trigger pull and many shots). That would have outlawed my cousins deer rifle, which was used by the British in WWI, and both of my father's deer rifles, one of which was used briefly as a sniper rifle in Viet Nam and the other was carried up San Juan Hill by Teddy Roosevelt. Over a century ago John Browning came up with modification that transformed any lever action rifle into full auto. That makes any lever action or semi-automatic rifle or shotgun a potential assault weapon. That definition was so broad that when Bill Clinton went goose hunting with some supporters, he accidentally carried a shotgun that was on the banned list. If he didn't realize he was breaking the law, how could anyone be expected to figure out which guns were legal?

    And as for making new laws, why not start by enforcing more of the laws we have on the books, before enacting more that probably either duplicate or contradict existing laws.

    Gun free zones are just a way to provide crazy shooters with places in which they know they are safe to shoot without having anyone shoot back. I hear people ask why did that kid go shooting little kids in a school? The answer is that he wanted to shoot lots of people with a high shock value and supposedly had the goal of shooting more than that guy in Norway last year. What better place than one where the targets are guaranteed to be unarmed and too small to be a serious threat physically?

    Check the number of people shot in incidents where the people relied on police to stop the shooter and those cases where people with Concealed Carry permits stopped the shooter. It's about what you would expect comparing the time it takes to draw a pistol to that time it takes for the police to be called, assemble at the scene, assess the situation from scanty information and plan an attack. Without denigrating the police, I'd say 45 minutes is about as fast as it could be done in most cases. In that time, a shooter with a semi auto rifle or pistol could easily shoot hundreds of rounds. An AR-15 as used in Sandy Hook could fire more rounds than that skinny kid could carry.

    Last point: The worst school massacre ever had only a single shot fired in it's commission. That shot was to set off a bomb in a car after the main explosion in the school, and was intended to kill as many of the responders as possible. It was in Michigan, many, many years ago.
  • Democrat
    Meridian, MS
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    Hey Old John, this event you are referencing occurred in 1927. How many U.S. citizens had automatic weaponry in those days, especially when compared to today's society? All I am saying is that this event was NOT gun violence or an actual mass shooting, it was the same thing as using a battery to initiate a spark. Back in those days it probably wasn't even illegal to shoot a gun in public, so this act of shooting was probably not even a crime, at least not in itself. Was it a school massacre? Sure it was, but just not an incidence of gun violence or abuse. Your comparison is like saying that the first time an American child lit and exploded a firecracker was the first precursor of the Oklahoma City bomber. Comparisons should be between very similar or closely related objects.
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    I believe in all bans and new laws governing the sale or transfer of weapons and ammuntion as long as the criminals are brought to bear first, and that they will abide by the these new restrictions, if you can't guarentee this simple tenet ,then further discussion is moot, and I'll keep my stuff with ammo.
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    Good idea johnny and we both know it will never happen.
  • Republican
    Lomax, IL
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    Making the selling of drugs illegal hasn't stopped drug use; illegal to commit murder hasn't stopped murder; (you get the point). If you make the sale of ammunition illegal then the illegal will just as easy get the illegal and sell the illegal. Prohibition never stops or solves anything. It just makes the criminal richer. Then the underworld has the guns AND the ammo. Criminals will still kill each other, and some of the rest of us.

    What about the law abiding citizen who likes to shoot targets. He has always enjoyed his sport and has never pointed a gun at anyone. What would be your reaction if the government outlaws your hobby. I know that sounds stupid, but what about the mayor of New York. He wants it illegal to sell larger than 16oz sodas.
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    I have mentioned in another posting that most of these mass killers are very familar with their weapons, so limiting the capacity of a magazine is meaningless, back in the day,I could fire and reload my M-1 Garand 3 times inside of 30 seconds with 90% of my rounds on target, these mass killers do not employ the spray and pray methond of shooting, by all accounts they actively seek and select their targets before killing them, my point is is that in all of these discuusions on ban this or ban that,what is lost is the fact that these shooters are profiecnt in their abilitiy to kill ,so why punish the average citizen who wants his weapon for self defense or just for plinking.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    johnnycee Wrote: I have mentioned in another posting that most of these mass killers are very familar with their weapons, so limiting the capacity of a magazine is meaningless, back in the day,I could fire and reload my M-1 Garand 3 times inside of 30 seconds with 90% of my rounds on target, these mass killers do not employ the spray and pray methond of shooting, by all accounts they actively seek and select their targets before killing them, my point is is that in all of these discuusions on ban this or ban that,what is lost is the fact that these shooters are profiecnt in their abilitiy to kill ,so why punish the average citizen who wants his weapon for self defense or just for plinking.
    As I said before in an other topic; sure people should be able to have guns and ammunition for real hunting or target practise; the thing what I'm against is hording the stuff like an old lady who can not even walk in her house because it got the whole Walmart in it. Sorry to say that there are plenty of people hoarding these weapons. I can not see a reason for that. I can imagine that you collect antique weapons flintlocks etc, but why should you have a trillion rounds and forty AK 47's?