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Rachel Maddow: Hubris - Selling the Iraq War

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  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Just a reminder that Rachel Maddow is narrating an MSNBC special tonight in her normal time slot on the selling of the Iraq War. It will likely be a condemnation of the Cheney/Bush lies that led us into that war. Many of us have lived all the details of this hubris before, but I am certainly looking forward to her documentary and I hope Cheney in particular is raked over the coals for his lies.

    We must never forget...

    Watch it.
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    I saw most of her show tonight ("Hubris") -- and it was wonderful. We can never get enough Reminder of the perpetual lies given out by the GOP on almost any topic. All the total Bulloney they fabricated & manipulated, in order to get the United States into a useless & unnecessary War. The total arrogance of Bush & Cheney - to put this nation into a tailspin, just so they could gain access to the IRAQ Oil fields.

    But after incredible loss of life, among the Iraqi people, & living with the loss of their electrical power & water, for so many years, & not being able to run their businesses, or send their children to school, and having their nation bombed & occupied by an enemy. What kind of legacy is that to help the US reputation & prestige abroad? I think it leaves an indelible greasy stain on the whole image of America. And on We the People.

    Now WHAT did we LOSE? Did we WIN the war? NO, it is really not even over yet. But it has cost us way over $3 trillion dollars, and thousands of American lives, & even more thousands who came home crippled, maimed, or with PTSD. Who is going to PAY for those lives? Who is going to pay for the WAR? It is WE THE PEOPLE. Out of our Taxes, we will all have to pay for that lousy stinking LYING WAR.

    And who PROFITED from that war? (The usual suspects). It was Dick Cheney & George W. Bush, & all their GOP cronies who invested in defense industries, weaponry, & military hardware. (Sorta like the NRA on steroids). All that machinery is intended to KILL

    So now after those same people have BANKRUPTED the US govt, with 2 or 3 Wars, so our Economy is on the brink of failure, & we have massive unemployment & foreclosure in this country, it is WE THE PEOPLE who are expected to Pay for it? While Bush & Cheney are shoveling in the trillion$ of dollar$ of PROFIT they got off the Iraqi OIL? And all the money from their $tock in the military industrial complex? A whole lot of that money is stuffed into bank accts in Switzerland & the Cayman Islands. (So Bush & Cheney can avoid paying taxes on it). NOTE: Tax evasion is a Felony.

    CAUSING a TOTALLY FRAUDULENT WAR, which bankrupted We the People out of over $3 trillion, is a MASSIVE CRIME, and NOW (the GOP) want We The People TO PAY for their lousy WAR, -- by taking away our MEDICARE, & our SOCIAL SECURITY?

    What do YOU think? Do you want all your Benefits (YOU PAID FOR) to be dissipated just to pay for the IRAQ WAR? (It bankrupted our Treasury).
    Just so Cheney & Bush (& many others) do NOT have to pay their TAXES? Bush just bought a fancy new house about $8 million, in Dallas, besides the very luxurious Crawford Ranch (he kept just so he could go fishing). After numerous War Crimes, plotting a War based on LIES, bombing a nation that never threatened us or attacked us, violating numerous UN treaties, depriving Iraqi people of water & power for 10 years, putting US soldiers into harm's way for an UNJUST WAR, getting thousands of soldiers maimed & killed, for killing Saddam Hussein & his 2 sons when they were innocent of all charges made by BushCo, for the crime of causing massive unemployment in the USA, & leaving many Americans jobless & homeless, for destroying the good credit, the credibility & the prestige of America, -- BUSH & CHENEY OUGHT TO BE ARRESTED, & put into detention in a Federal Prison. Since their crimes are so horrendous they must never be allowed Bail, (they hate bail-outs, you may recall:) & since we already know they are BOTH GUILTY, we only must decide the appropriate punishment. Hmmm -- How to be punished for crimes against "humanity"?

    Maybe we could do a little 'waterboarding' to get a "Confession" -- (they both love that technique). Once they have admitted to all the Money they OWE us, they could begin to make reparations, by writing massive checks (totaling $4 trillion or so) & they could send them to the US Treasury, especially the locations where the money is kept for the Social Security Fund & the Medicare Funds. After they get done paying in $4 trillion, which they owe to ALL of us, the American people, for the death of our soldiers & the ruination of our Economy... That is just the beginning...

    Any addition to that, could pay Veterans Benefits, & keep the US Post Office in operation. By the time we do similar measures to the Wall Street CEO's -- who were all "too big to fail, & too big to jail" --- after a visit to the WaterBoard Motel, we could add trillion$ more to the US Treasury,
    and again begin to be the Prosperous Nation of America. How simple it is..... seeking True JUSTICE.
  • Democrat
    Lawrence, MA
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    eternal flame Wrote: I saw most of her show tonight ("Hubris") -- and it was wonderful. We can never get enough Reminder of the perpetual lies given out by the GOP on almost any topic. All the total Bulloney they fabricated & manipulated, in order to get the United States into a useless & unnecessary War. The total arrogance of Bush & Cheney - to put this nation into a tailspin, just so they could gain access to the IRAQ Oil fields.

    But after incredible loss of life, among the Iraqi people, & living with the loss of their electrical power & water, for so many years, & not being able to run their businesses, or send their children to school, and having their nation bombed & occupied by an enemy. What kind of legacy is that to help the US reputation & prestige abroad? I think it leaves an indelible greasy stain on the whole image of America. And on We the People.

    Now WHAT did we LOSE? Did we WIN the war? NO, it is really not even over yet. But it has cost us way over $3 trillion dollars, and thousands of American lives, & even more thousands who came home crippled, maimed, or with PTSD. Who is going to PAY for those lives? Who is going to pay for the WAR? It is WE THE PEOPLE. Out of our Taxes, we will all have to pay for that lousy stinking LYING WAR.

    And who PROFITED from that war? (The usual suspects). It was Dick Cheney & George W. Bush, & all their GOP cronies who invested in defense industries, weaponry, & military hardware. (Sorta like the NRA on steroids). All that machinery is intended to KILL

    So now after those same people have BANKRUPTED the US govt, with 2 or 3 Wars, so our Economy is on the brink of failure, & we have massive unemployment & foreclosure in this country, it is WE THE PEOPLE who are expected to Pay for it? While Bush & Cheney are shoveling in the trillion$ of dollar$ of PROFIT they got off the Iraqi OIL? And all the money from their $tock in the military industrial complex? A whole lot of that money is stuffed into bank accts in Switzerland & the Cayman Islands. (So Bush & Cheney can avoid paying taxes on it). NOTE: Tax evasion is a Felony.

    CAUSING a TOTALLY FRAUDULENT WAR, which bankrupted We the People out of over $3 trillion, is a MASSIVE CRIME, and NOW (the GOP) want We The People TO PAY for their lousy WAR, -- by taking away our MEDICARE, & our SOCIAL SECURITY?

    What do YOU think? Do you want all your Benefits (YOU PAID FOR) to be dissipated just to pay for the IRAQ WAR? (It bankrupted our Treasury).
    Just so Cheney & Bush (& many others) do NOT have to pay their TAXES? Bush just bought a fancy new house about $8 million, in Dallas, besides the very luxurious Crawford Ranch (he kept just so he could go fishing). After numerous War Crimes, plotting a War based on LIES, bombing a nation that never threatened us or attacked us, violating numerous UN treaties, depriving Iraqi people of water & power for 10 years, putting US soldiers into harm's way for an UNJUST WAR, getting thousands of soldiers maimed & killed, for killing Saddam Hussein & his 2 sons when they were innocent of all charges made by BushCo, for the crime of causing massive unemployment in the USA, & leaving many Americans jobless & homeless, for destroying the good credit, the credibility & the prestige of America, -- BUSH & CHENEY OUGHT TO BE ARRESTED, & put into detention in a Federal Prison. Since their crimes are so horrendous they must never be allowed Bail, (they hate bail-outs, you may recall:) & since we already know they are BOTH GUILTY, we only must decide the appropriate punishment. Hmmm -- How to be punished for crimes against "humanity"?

    Maybe we could do a little 'waterboarding' to get a "Confession" -- (they both love that technique). Once they have admitted to all the Money they OWE us, they could begin to make reparations, by writing massive checks (totaling $4 trillion or so) & they could send them to the US Treasury, especially the locations where the money is kept for the Social Security Fund & the Medicare Funds. After they get done paying in $4 trillion, which they owe to ALL of us, the American people, for the death of our soldiers & the ruination of our Economy... That is just the beginning...

    Any addition to that, could pay Veterans Benefits, & keep the US Post Office in operation. By the time we do similar measures to the Wall Street CEO's -- who were all "too big to fail, & too big to jail" --- after a visit to the WaterBoard Motel, we could add trillion$ more to the US Treasury,
    and again begin to be the Prosperous Nation of America. How simple it is..... seeking True JUSTICE.
  • Democrat
    Lawrence, MA
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    Etrenal, You covered it well. All of this is already well known, but, for all the good it will do, it's good to keep it out there where it can be seen from time to time.......But you said,,,,,,"How simple it is.....seeking true justice." But of course it isn't simple. The Obama admistration is naturally against the idea of bringing Bush/Cheney up on war crimes. That would set a precedent that would certainly backfire on Obama since his shirt sleeves are also full of blood. .....I look at it this way. Most of us know that the murderous edifice that is the USA is , short of a first class mracle, impossible to dislodge. So we we pretend that it really isn't so bad......if only we could tinker with it a bit and bring about some reforms. In the meantime the various blood baths get deeper and harder to extract ourselves from. Try to be as objective as you can....... try to look behind the facade......don't the talking political heads that we see blathering on the TV News at night strike you as completely insane ?
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Eternal Flame -- Thanks for summarizing your views which many of us share. Watching the program brought back many bitter memories as we watched Cheney/Bush and his minions proceed with impunity. And the arrogance of Bush to still think it was all worth it...wow. However, I hold my most contempt for Dick Cheney...a devious manipulator who is now attacking Obama for his foreign policy. The guy is just despicable.

    For anyone that missed it, you can watch it at this NBC News - Maddow website:

    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/26315908/
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    To all, great posts..... I fear that far too many won't remember the facts as they really are. This should be the Bush legacy. Same with Cheney. In a partisan way, the repub's will gloss over the details and continue to support their team. 3 cheers for Fahrenheit 911.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Yeah, I've said this from day one when it started; we do not get our 6000 plus military life's back either. As long as we keep pushing on the media that "we have to defend ourselves" and "this keeps America safe" then of course all the gun toting uneducated rednecks will jump from joy and join the army and still support all the great achievements even if they come home without arms or legs but at least they learned how to sniff the white stuff. As long as war and killing is praised and glorified on TV, Nintendo, Movies etc., then most of the 45% Repub. votes, will always vote for war.
    As you can see most southern states are still kind of busy with the civil war and love guns, so I'm not surprised that they did support the Cheney types.
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    Would the LATE GREAT United States be susceptible to takeover by the Tea Party UNLESS it was Bankrupt? Was all this the original agenda of the PNAC (the right-wing ultra-conservative org) to eventually turn America into a fascist govt? (You s/b able to google PNAC) They are trying to create a nation which no longer can function as a democracy. We are to be a nation ruled by crooked corporations, judged by a crooked Supreme Court, (that was bought by the Koch Brothers), & represented by lobbyists. Even foreign lobbyists. But We the People have NO lobbyists.

    The PNAC agenda was to create this farce, to promote Eternal War (all over the globe), starting with IRAQ, even using deliberately False Evidence to start such a War, & to keep the propaganda flowing so the people would keep on supporting the War, & keep sending our youth off to fight in such wars. The objective was to gain control over all the World's Resources (ie OIL) before the Russians or other nations could get it first.

    We have seen in the Mitt Romney campaign, the circus clown brigade, all the LIES they are capable of spreading, none of which even make human sense, but they all "eat it up" like it was the Gospel Truth. It all seems to start with the Bush Admin, where the most treasonous lies began. It was OK to lie to not only the American people, but also to the United Nations, and to ALL our most devout allies. Do we even KNOW how many thousands of our ALLIES died in the IRAQ War? That was just collateral damage to the Pentagon. But NOT TO ME. Who were they? Young boys sent off to fight for America, who were not even Americans. Boys from England, Australia, & Poland. Later joined by forces from 36 nations. All being ordered into battle for FALSE WMD "dreamed up" by the Bush Admin. Many of those boys are buried in forgotten graves, by Bush's LIES.

    Knowing these "eternal wars" would bankrupt the United States, (but not wanting to pay for them with normal economic policies) since their 2nd objective was to "loot the US Treasury" of every dime they possibly could. The PNAC bunch was blowing money like water on unnecessary weapons, while denying the proper "armor" on our HumVee's and military vehicles patrolling the Iraqi desert. NO ARMOR for our boys, but billions of dollars on weapons that were not needed. Or for "bribes" to drug lords & opium dealers (rulers in Afghanistan). Millions of Dollars were distributed out the backside of a truck, seen by dozens of witnesses. Millions of American dollars unaccounted for. Literally THROWN AWAY.

    This unprecedented number of War Crimes (by a sitting US President) is undeniably the worst chapter in US History. And yet, what does it say about our Justice System, if we let him go on, Scott Free? So far, ten years after the Iraq War began, Bush has never been taken to judgment for this, & has never spent even ONE HOUR in detainment. Never forced to even recognize what he has done. In the eyes of the World, there is NO JUSTICE.
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    GUN GIVEAWAY!

    Dutch you say...most southern states are still kind of busy with the civil war and love guns...and you'll get no argument from me, but maybe its not confined to just the south, here's an interesting story from the AP in yesterdays paper:

    POLICE GROUP TO RAFFLE OFF A GUN A DAY
    "Police Chiefs in New Hampshire wanted more money for their youth training program. A youth hockey team in North Dakota needed more ice time."

    New Hampshire and North Dakota! They both need money so the logical answer is to raffle away guns!

    "The New Hampshire Association of Chiefs of Police is raffling off a gun every dayin May, including a Ruger AR-15 style rifle with 30 round magazine similiar to the one used in the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting..."

    "The players in West Fargo's Youth Hockey Association will raffle off 200 guns and an all terrain vehicle next month."

    Maybe it's not just the south that "loves guns". You'd think the police chiefs in ALL states would want FEWER guns on the streets. In New Hampshire the cops are giving them away! You can not make this stuff up. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.
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    Everybody seems to be having a "going out of business" SALE, and they would sell their Grandma's underwear, if they can get a few extra bucks out of it. None of it makes much sense. Like you said, the police should want to have LESS guns out on the street, possibly getting into the wrong hands. The cops used to "melt" confiscated guns from criminals in yester-year. When people were almost sensible.

    Some of those guns probably are damaged, maybe (like Oswald) they've got a bent scope, so their aim is not perfect. I am not sure if that would be good or not, for the rest of us. (ha) Someone takes aim at the guy next to you, & "oops" -- they have a "Cheney Hunt" moment.

    Probably the best deterrent to War, is to force the leaders who VOTED for it, to be intimately involved in the battle. They must go, like Patton, right into the frontlines and face the enemy, point blank. See the whites of their eyes & have to Point, Aim & FIRE at them in person.

    You think they have the Yellow Rose in Texas? What about all the "yellow bellies" there, at the Bush Ranch? They are such tough guys as long as they never have to see true (bloodshed) with their own eyeballs. Someone should place 4,000 tombstones on the Bush Ranch, just as a symbolic gesture to remind Bush of how many lives he has destroyed -- not to mention their wives & children left behind. How many families that are not getting their veteran payments right now, & their kids are half starving, in this nation of greedy millionaires.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    "jamesn" yeah, I guess in just a couple of years you get these after having bought 10 hamburgers; the more points the bigger the gun you get.
    But anyway look at the topic of "united" about his "deer rifle which can be converted......etc". In my reply to him I quoted your "police handout" So read my reply and tell me what you think.
  • Democrat
    Meridian, MS
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    I whole-heartedly agree with you "eternal", in fact, I never could have written it nearly that well. Since Bush and Cheney (and even probably Ms. Rice too) did indeed make trillions on their deceitful practices, the water-boarding would certainly help them admit it, but also making their children and loved ones to be inducted into military service and shipped out immediately to Pakistan/Afghanistan areas, would serve them right and really give them days of anguish. This coupled with your previously announced re-payment of trillions to the U.S. Treasury for Medicare and S.S., would definitely get them the justice they deserve. Remember, Liberty and Justice for all.
  • Democrat
    Meridian, MS
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    I whole-heartedly agree with you "eternal", in fact, I never could have written it nearly that well. Since Bush and Cheney (and even probably Ms. Rice too) did indeed make trillions on their deceitful practices, the water-boarding would certainly help them admit it, but also making their children and loved ones to be inducted into military service and shipped out immediately to Pakistan/Afghanistan areas, would serve them right and really give them days of anguish. This coupled with your previously announced re-payment of trillions to the U.S. Treasury for Medicare and S.S., would definitely get them the justice they deserve. Remember, Liberty and Justice for all.
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    Dutch I saw your reply and I agree with some of it and do not agree with some of it. You say...it took 125 men to catch one guy...real heros...yes and if it would have taken more than that, then that's what should have been used. If one or ten men had been used to try to catch him maybe he would have been able to kill even more, and we needed to not only get him, but stop him from killing again. I think they are real heros because one more officer was killed and another wounded on the final day, so obviously they, at least some of them, were putting their lives on the line. This was not an ordinary crazed nut, He was a former cop, former military, had threatened to kill cops and their families and he followed up on his threat. 125 against one may not sound fair to you but I think in cases like this we don't need to be fair.

    I also agree with unitedmajority on his original point that his rifle can be converted to an assault weapon and most differences between an assault weapon and many other semi automatic rifles are just cosmetic differences anyway.
  • Democrat
    Lakeland, FL
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    I CAN never forget. In 2001 I was married to a Turkish National. He read the papers and websites and called home almost every week. He would tell me frequently about Turkey's 'trouble with the Kurdish people.' Kurds were coming over the border from Iraq when Saddam would run them out. Then Turkey would run them back to Iraq and this kept up repeatedly. When Cheney told us that Iraq definitely had WMD's, I knew that could not be true, because if he did, there would be no more 'Kurdish problem.'
    As we grew closer to war that winter, my mother broke her hip and died on January 26, 2002. I kept hearing that Bush's Administration was pushing us to war, but I kept rationalizing away not calling or writing anyone with my information. "Surely," I thought, "all those people in Washington are so much smarter than me. They MUST know that if Saddam had WMDs he would try them out on the Kurds first." As the months went on, I imagined our intelligence department was performing due diligence, and building consensus and they would learn what I knew. I couldn't possibly be the only person that knew this. Then my husband filed for divorce, and my Dad died. Reeling from all the emotional upheaval, I was flabberghasted when we went to war in early 2003.