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The poor must go

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  • Democrat
    Lawrence, MA
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    When Ronald " Dopey Dildock"was president he went to Moscow and critcized the Russian government and society at a huge gatering of Russians. The Russian leader responded by saying that at least you wouldn't find tens of thoiusands of Russinas sleeoing on the sidewalks at night kike you find Americans doing in New York, Dopey relied,....That's the difference between the USA and your country. In Americawe're free to sleep on the sidwalks if we want to......Has anybody noticed that we no longer mention "Poor" people in our public discourse ? Everybodys middle class these days. Last night Obama said he wants to ease the middle class up a rung or two on the economic ladder. The many millions of actual poor people recieved no mention. Looks like they're on their own. They will have to find a way to pull themeselves up by their own toe nails.....The kids who go to school in rags or go to bed hungry at night because the food stamps ran out when the single parent traded them for drugs. The schools where poor kids go to learn how to be gang members, drug dealers and socail misfits . As for those folks sleeping on sidewalks and in alleys at night ....we have to find a way to get rid of them, Too many people sleeping in the streets at niight makes the free enterprise system look bad.
  • Democrat
    Meridian, MS
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    Hey Left, you said "Has anybody noticed that we no longer mention "Poor" people in our public discourse ?" I have to disagree somewhat on this as the President sure did last night. He made statements like "The more education you've got, the more likely you are to have a good job and work your way into the middle class" and "And that's why we need to build ladders of opportunity into the middle class for all who are willing to climb them". He was sure speaking about the poor and ways they can try to move FROM their poorer class into the middle class. All I'm saying is that we need to give credit where credit is due.
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    Leftofcenter Wrote: When Ronald " Dopey Dildock"was president he went to Moscow and critcized the Russian government and society at a huge gatering of Russians. The Russian leader responded by saying that at least you wouldn't find tens of thoiusands of Russinas sleeoing on the sidewalks at night kike you find Americans doing in New York, Dopey relied,....That's the difference between the USA and your country. In Americawe're free to sleep on the sidwalks if we want to......Has anybody noticed that we no longer mention "Poor" people in our public discourse ? Everybodys middle class these days. Last night Obama said he wants to ease the middle class up a rung or two on the economic ladder. The many millions of actual poor people recieved no mention. Looks like they're on their own. They will have to find a way to pull themeselves up by their own toe nails.....The kids who go to school in rags or go to bed hungry at night because the food stamps ran out when the single parent traded them for drugs. The schools where poor kids go to learn how to be gang members, drug dealers and socail misfits . As for those folks sleeping on sidewalks and in alleys at night ....we have to find a way to get rid of them, Too many people sleeping in the streets at niight makes the free enterprise system look bad.
    "We have to find a way to get rid of them." That can not be left open ended or the reader flashes to Hitler speaches.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Leftofcenter Wrote: When Ronald " Dopey Dildock"was president he went to Moscow and critcized the Russian government and society at a huge gatering of Russians. The Russian leader responded by saying that at least you wouldn't find tens of thoiusands of Russinas sleeoing on the sidewalks at night kike you find Americans doing in New York, Dopey relied,....That's the difference between the USA and your country. In Americawe're free to sleep on the sidwalks if we want to......Has anybody noticed that we no longer mention "Poor" people in our public discourse ? Everybodys middle class these days. Last night Obama said he wants to ease the middle class up a rung or two on the economic ladder. The many millions of actual poor people recieved no mention. Looks like they're on their own. They will have to find a way to pull themeselves up by their own toe nails.....The kids who go to school in rags or go to bed hungry at night because the food stamps ran out when the single parent traded them for drugs. The schools where poor kids go to learn how to be gang members, drug dealers and socail misfits . As for those folks sleeping on sidewalks and in alleys at night ....we have to find a way to get rid of them, Too many people sleeping in the streets at niight makes the free enterprise system look bad.
    You hit it spot on, Left. I spent the past five years working in a residential treatment facility for youth that had various mental health and behavior issues and it opened my eyes to the inequalities that persist in our society. Those kids were there for no fault of their own and will need help for the remainder of their lives because of the abuse that they went through as young kids. When budget cuts hit the state I lived in, the first ones that felt the pain were those kids, and millions others of people that rely on the government to assist them in their daily lives. They rely on this assistance not because they are greedy money hungry lazy people, but because they NEED help.

    I would take issue with the single parent trading in food stamps for drugs. Sure, that does happen on a relatively small scale, but we can not lump all of the welfare queens in one foul swoop. There are many, many more people that use food stamps to feed their families than ones that sell them for drugs or other vices. And the reason that these kids go to school to learn to be gang members is because the public education system has failed them miserably. Our education system is funded to set up these kids for failure from pre-school on. When we fund education based on local income taxes, the rich suburbs in the country will ALWAYS have the best schools and the inner city schools will ALWAYS be light years behind. If we want real change in this country, we have to start with education. We have to change the way we fund our schools in America.

    The reason that we don't mention "poor" people anymore is because it's the easiest thing to do. Out of sight, out of mind. When average American's are struggling to get by, they don't want to think about the ones that are struggling even more. But, what most American's don't take time to seriously ponder is the way that we have allowed the private prison complex in this country take over our penal system. That, coupled with the nation wide shutting down of Mental Health Hospitals, mandatory prison sentences for non-violent drug offenders, among other things, is only exacerbating the problem. Once someone gets thrown in prison, they are labeled forever and are much more likely to go back to prison at some point in their lives. These things, coupled with our dismal education system, has set in motion a chain of events that is spiraling out of control. When millions of kids know that they are going to go to prison because there is no other hope for them in life, we have FAILED as a society. The saddest part about this is that it is far cheaper to invest in a child's education than send them to prison for 25 years.

    The rich continue to get richer. The poor continue to get poorer. So, there are some people that may choose to live their lives on the street, but I'd venture to say that 99 percent of them are out there because life hit them in the ass and they had nobody there to give them a helping hand when they needed it the most. All the while, many on the right in our government believe that the best way to spur economic growth is to keep cutting taxes for the rich and getting rid of as many regulations as possible. It hasn't worked yet and I don't ever see it working in the future.
  • Democrat
    Lawrence, MA
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    All these comments are well taken. And yes, OBam did say we neeed to give the lumpen proletariat a hand up, but I've been hearing this crap for many decades now and the situation is worse now than it was in the 50's. I don't like to bring myself into this personally, but it's the best and closest example I can think of. When I was a kid I sometimes went 2 or more days with nothing to eat. Nada. When the landlord came to collect the rent on Saturday morning my mother would pull down all the shades and tell us not to make a sound when he knocked. My brother and I rifled through garbage cans looking for soda bottles with a 2 cent return on them trying to help her to scratch together the rent. I quit school as soon as possible because I was ashamed of the raggedy clothes I wore.....I remember. clear as yesterday, a mural in that high schoold over the doors of the gym.....I Will Prepare Myself Today And Tomorrow My Chance Will Come..... The biggest pile of bull shit I ever encountered. That's enough. Don't tell me aboput Hitler. I saw him in the face of many welfare workers, policemen and other agents of the system. .....OBam wants to give them a way out of their dilemna ? This is the obligatory mention of the poor these clowns make in these speeches to satisfy the liberals. Why hasn't he at least made a pass in that direction in the past four years ? And I'll tell you this......more teachers in the sluims ain't going to turn the trick boys. Have you guys ever taken a slow ride through some to the neighborhoods these kides live in ? Gone inside some of the "schools" they attend ? The dumps they live in are so pathetic they can't wait to get out on the streets as fast as they can.......This is the foundation of the nation. This is the stuiff at the bottom that holds everything else up. When American's are out hynotically waving their little patriotic flags or shedding a tear for the lastest government hit man coming home in a sack from Afghjanistan......this foundation is a big part of what mooning about whether they know it or not.....And finally.....food stamps are sold a lot more often than you might think.....at least in the town I live in.
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    Obama does want to raise minimum wages.
    Notice that all those mention foodstamps or welfare ia negative way point to the .01% that is misused and use that as justification for scrapping the whole system. Those are the polititians we need to sequester.

    My family was on stamps for time when I was young and it did come in handy.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    "left" I read with a lot of interest your story; sure I've driven through slums here in Detroit and other cities and thought at that time it is just temporary because of the times. I'm not used to that at all. Sorry, and people will say there you have Dutch again, but even after WWII all people in the Netherlands had food; it worked via a "bon" booklet which showed the items you could get for free by handing in the ticket, more or less like food stamps, however it was stopped at a certain time and certain social programs kicked in like child support systems, education for all etc. You will find no slums in the Netherlands and no hungry people. I was an orphan and cared for all the way. So something must be out of wack here; they are here to eager to paint something like that communism, while it is not that at all but creates a society which is much more equal and mentally healthy due to education for all. For instance what Obama said about education to link it to the industry; that was already done when I went to college in the "60's, it was linked with the Philips factory who sponsered that particular high technical school; I liked it because everything was up to date and even learned to built a rocket engine for model airplanes etc. But anyway about a lot of things here, I keep shaking my head. The only thing I hope that you are doing fine now and please take care of your health!!
  • Democrat
    Meridian, MS
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    "Left", you said above: "OBama wants to give them a way out of their dilemna ? This is the obligatory mention of the poor these clowns make in these speeches to satisfy the liberals. Why hasn't he at least made a pass in that direction in the past four years ?" Let me address your words. I honestly don't think Obama wants to GIVE them a way out of their dilemma, I think he is rather suggesting a way for them to get out of, or avoid their dilemma by themselves----education. That is all he was saying, that education CAN level the playing field, but he is also implying that it is their responsibility to get that education, via our public school systems, and if they can manage to graduate, then their futures will be brighter. Once they get that diploma, who knows what the possibilities might be?
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    Hello guys: I am interested in all your comments. But we must also remember that we are blessed to live in one of the most wonderful countries in the world -- born in a democracy, where theoretically we are given a voice in our govt, by our VOTES. Now I realize very well, that our democracy is hanging by a thread, due to the right wing taking over the Republican Party, & trying to destroy our democracy, while doing all they possibly can to make themselves eternal dictators over our Fate. You cannot blame Obama (or the Democrats) for this treason.

    Most cut-backs in our economy are due to (1) Bush's WARS in IRAQ and Afghanistan, which cost us all trillions of dollars & got this nation into huge DEBT right after Pres Clinton had given us an economic SURPLUS. As you know, Clinton is a Democrat. And HIS policies made this nation strong and productive and healthy. But the Republicans are NOT the "job creators" unless you count them making a NEED for billions of "soldiers" to go put their lives on the line, in some God-forsaken desert country, to protect Halliburton's pursuit of foreign OIL.

    Next reason for our economic downfall: (2) Is the greedy crooked Wall Street Traitors (oops, I mean traders) who have done everything possible to loot this nation's treasury, and falsify potential incomes, in order to cheat all our homeowners & innocent investors out of their justifiable profits. It was just like a crooked poker game, except that the crooks never got sent to jail, or even to detention camp. Most of them are out on the Riviera, smoking big cigars, snorting cocaine, & sipping on Cabernet Savignon, in their gold plated thrones. While waiters are getting a hernia carrying all the truck loads of Filet Mignon, lobster, & Chateau Briand to their luxurious suites. And usually getting "stiffed" out of their tips.

    I know people to this day who collect cans out of dumpsters, trying to make a few extra bucks to pay their water bill or their telephone bill. It is sad to see people living like this in the United States of America. The richest nation on Earth. But we often are not allowed to notice that we are NOT the richest nation anymore. We are IN DEBT to Red Communist China, because we had to BORROW money to help pay for the enormous cost of the 2 or 3 WARS we are waging all over the Middle East. (Bush's crazy wars, looking for Weapons of Mass Destruction which did NOT EXIST.) So now we are bankrupt, not having the money to pay our bills, & having to borrow from "enemy" nations like Red China. It is TRUTHFUL to say, that the GOP and their strategies of Eternal War, have bankrupted the nation of our Founders. This has devastated our Economy, & made our Wall Street a crap shoot for gamblers who like High Risk. The most sleazy criminals were in charge of our banking financial institutions, in the Bush years, & it was impossible to throw them all out after Obama took over. Why? Because those sleazy crooks are the only ones who know where all the bodies are buried, so to speak. If a serial killer is the only one who knows where his victims are buried, they cannot afford to shoot him or put him to death, until he speaks to tell them the location, the date, & the motive for the crime. So in some respects, we have to allow the criminals to remain where they are, hoping to get some possibility of repentance, or finding a new way to bribe him for the "good side." Most of them are so amoral that you cannot convince them to do good for "good's sake." Some are only well-dressed slimeballs of the lowest caliber, & nothing can appeal to them except their own intense Greed OR the possibility of their own imminent self-destruction.

    I've seen the suggestion of building a Guillotine in their business front yard. Right by the giant "Raging Bull" statue on Wall Street. It is a nice symbolic gesture to awaken them to the Facts of History. Pure EVIL cannot succeed forever.
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    An actual conversation.

    Old guy "The homeless here eat better than alot of people. I just saw a lady carry nin two trays of lasagna".
    Me "That is because we are an educated community and know what that old Greek meant when he said "A society is judged by how it treats its least wanted"."
    Old guy "I knew there was a reason I liked Ann Arbor".
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    What do you all think about the RAISING of the minimum wage to $9 per hour? This is what Obama suggested in the State of the Union speech. Is that enough? I know a guy who has 3 kids & a wife to feed, & take care of, on only $7 per hour wages. It is really hard to imagine that lifestyle in modern 21st century America. At those wages, he can't keep a decent car running, & they have to depend on charity or food stamps to keep going.

    Meanwhile, some people have million dollar houses, spend most of their time at the golf course, or health spa, getting manicures & a defoliating massage. It is a wonderful thing to have all those luxuries, and they probably do deserve it, but somehow it just isn't right, that some are so well off, & they are NOT working that much more than the poor. In fact, they are probably working Less than the poor do.

    I wonder if You can come up with a good Solution for this problem of society? How do we share the wealth? We can ask for donations from the rich, and there are many who will gladly share a percentage of their exorbitant incomes. But unfortunately, there are MORE of the wealthy who would not give a cup of water to a man dying of thirst. Even if he was laying on their doorstep. So that is why we invented Charity, where we have some quality method of raising the money & then distributing it to the right places. But you have to hire the people who run the charity, & the law allows them to keep 90% of the profits. So only 10% actually goes to help the poor. Not at all very efficient, or very helpful.

    Then there are the many Churches in this country. Unfortunately, many churches are wrapped in scandal, so they have to spend a lot of their money for buying lawyers to protect priests who like to fondle little boys. This is enormously sad, especially for all the real true priests who have never done anything wrong. And it is awful for ALL the people, since now the Church can't afford to help the Poor, since all the lawsuits (some true & some false) have wasted the money that should have gone to charity.

    There are other churches that (falsely) teach that if you are good, God will reward you with money -- so all you have to do is ask God & money will fall down from Heaven, or maybe your goose will lay golden eggs. But this implies, that if you are NOT getting any golden eggs, and you do not have money flowing down from Heaven, that you must be BAD. So if you are poor, you do not deserve to be helped, since God would have taken care of you if you were good. This is the (false) "Prosperity Gospel" & you will often hear this from fundamentalist right wing churches.

    So what then can we do? The wealthy often won't donate, the churches are going bankrupt due to scandal, charities only give away about 10% of their income to the cause, & the Republicans refuse to even consider any "share the wealth" ideas. So it appears that we are going to see a DECLINE in the Future of America, since the principles & morals that guided our Founders have been buried in the Dust.

    We know that many GOP "pretend" to be Christian, but it is obvious they have never read (or heard) much of the true Bible, or they would be much better people. First, the Golden Rule (of Jesus) was "Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you." It presumes that most people would try to be of help to others, if they could. (an endless reciprocal interaction).

    EVEN BETTER in the Chinese tradition, it is said that "for every good deed that is done for you, you must go out & do TEN good deeds to others." -- Wow, can you imagine a society that believed in that? People would be doing hundreds of good deeds every week, & each new good deed would bring forth 10 more, -- on & on -- into INFINITY : ) : )
  • Democrat
    Lawrence, MA
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    Eternal Flame , Thanks for you thoughtful post. What you descibed is a grasping, greedy, mealy mouthed nation. Of course, there is a minority that fights against the trend but, as always, it's the pricks who determined the nation's policies. I'd like to round up 5 or 6 hundred of the raggedy children aged about 5 to 8 off the streets of ther South Bronx, Watts, South Chicago, Detroit, Newark etc. and have them seated at the next gathering of Congress. . A good time to do this is when these "leaders" are getting ready to increase the military budget, or slash the income tax rate for the rishest Americans.....This situation is not going to change, Eternal. It gets allevaited temporarally from time to time if there is enough unrest at the bottom, but basically nothing changes. We cannot have a system that is fair and equitable for all under capitalism.....( This is the signal for the Free Enterpirisers to go bonkers )....greatest country the world has ever seen ....and all that happy horse shit. Okay, back to reality in the nation of Ostriches.
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    Hi Leftie:) Well, if capitalism is the fly in the ointment, what IS the solution? I guess some form of socialism may work, if it is under benign control, where the leaders are not trying to become dictators. We have now a so-called democracy, but in recent years, we are being taken over by some form of fascism, which masquerades as capitalistic entrepreneurs. It is a crooked casino with Hitler types in charge, & a Mafia goon squad out there to arrest you if you dare complain or protest. (Like the Occupy group tried to protest). The fascist segment is getting more militaristic every day, with a motto (since Bush) of Eternal War, to finance Eternal Greed. We the People are just supposed to be the "worker drones" in the hive, doing all the menial labor for minimum wages, while the 1% reap all the profits & keep the rest of us under their thumb. Our opinions do not count, to the Fascist leaders, and you can see right now in Congress, that the Republicans are pretending they NEVER LOST THE ELECTION. Our small opinions (& votes) make no impact on their thought processes (or actions) or legislation, or cabinet member choices. They will do everything they can to RUN the Govt, even if they do it backwards and upside down. It SHOULD be obvious to all thinking people on this Earth, that THIS Democracy has been killed by the Republican Party. It actually makes no difference WHO won the election, THEY are rigging the votes, the Economy, & all the cabinet posts by their unAmerican way of conducting themselves. Their "bribery" by Grover Norquist has made fair taxation impossible, so it starves our govt of cash to do its assigned responsibilities.

    This TREASON is not being acknowledged (at least publicly) by ANYONE, and the penalty for Treason is DEATH. The United States of America is lost, being held prisoner (or hostage) by covert agents of Fascism, who have sneaked into our govt offices, by use of stealth & infiltration, with the full intent of crippling & destroying this US govt. They ADMIT they want Obama to "fail", but they actually mean that they want the United States of America (& all its 311 million citizens) to fail. I have been unable to ascertain exactly which force is behind them, but it is either Communism, or Nazism --- and it may not really matter which, because BOTH of them (together) are a hybrid of FASCISM.

    Neither of them believe in Democracy (govt of the people, by the people, & for the people). Neither of them believe the People should have any reign in their own government. They believe we should NOT be allowed to VOTE, & our opinions or decisions DO NOT MATTER. We are just sheep to be pushed around & used for whatever they choose. They need bodies to man an abandoned Fort (like Tora Bora) in Afghanistan? Well, then people will be ordered to go there and be shot at all day & night, for no useful purpose. They need bodies to inhabit some God-forsaken oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico? Well, YOU could be the lucky one to pull that assignment, because SOON, you will have NO CHOICE left at all. This last year, the GOP have destroyed JUSTICE in the United States, due to a "bought & paid for" Supreme Court. You will NO LONGER have any true Justice for All in a GOP chosen Court System. It will ALL be decided in favor of the RICH 1%, and the rest of us are just out of luck.

    Is THIS the way it will end? When we can't even get an "honorable" man like Chuck Hagel appointed to the President's cabinet? I am a staunch Democrat, but I LIKE Chuck Hagel very much. He is VERY competent, with great insight from his experience in VietNam, & much more intelligent than the "deaf sheep" who allowed this nation to be driven into the stupid Viet Nam War. Chuck Hagel is a decent honest man who says what he thinks, and has integrity. He has the courage to call a spade a spade, & did so for Geo W. Bush. Because of that, (being honest) the GOP wants to make him a scapegoat, for disagreeing with Bush about the Iraq War. -- So HAGEL was RIGHT, and BUSH was WRONG... Get Over It !!

    In the long run, HOW do you get your nation back? When it has been hijacked by crooks, thieves, enemies & traitors? Any IDEAS??
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    "eternalflame" I like to reply to this section what you wrote:

    Is THIS the way it will end? When we can't even get an "honorable" man like Chuck Hagel appointed to the President's cabinet? I am a staunch Democrat, but I LIKE Chuck Hagel very much. He is VERY competent, with great insight from his experience in VietNam, & much more intelligent than the "deaf sheep" who allowed this nation to be driven into the stupid Viet Nam War. Chuck Hagel is a decent honest man who says what he thinks, and has integrity. He has the courage to call a spade a spade, & did so for Geo W. Bush. Because of that, (being honest) the GOP wants to make him a scapegoat, for disagreeing with Bush about the Iraq War. -- So HAGEL was RIGHT, and BUSH was WRONG... Get Over It !!

    I wrote about that in the topic: "Hagels appointment" If you did see on how McCain and his buddies attacked this man, then you know enough.
    Indeed as you mentioned in your "threads" it is the McCain types and his clan who bankrupted this country and still do. When is this country going to learn that "revenge" always has an oposite effect. Indeed as you say this "revenge" has cost us over 6000 military life's and over 200 hundred thousand plus other life's and trillions of dollars for what? what did we get back for it? hospitals full with amputees and nut cases? We never learned anything from Vietnam, let alone McCain. The stupidity with the drones right now will eventually backfire and bite us in the butt. It is time the US stops policing the whole world and concentrates on its citizens instead, so they get educated and have jobs as well better infrastructure. For instance there used to be a railroad all the way from Naples to Tampa sponsored by Edison; right now there is nothing at all. A highspeed rail would be great to attract more tourists so more jobs and revenue will be created etc. Stop this militarism in this country this will help; playing Rambo all over is fun but buying all these toys will only bankrupt us further and the rest of the world will despice us..
  • Independent
    New Hampshire
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    VN was a complete waste. Nixon’s Secret Plan to end the war in VN was a 2 parter. The first part was an attempt to get elected to his first term by telling everyone he had a Secret Plan to end the VN War. The second part was to say the same thing to get elected to his second term. About 7 years after being elected the first time we found out what his Secret Plan was: agree to the terms and conditions presented by NVN at the beginning of the action. As a nation we learned exactly what value our nation places on people they send to war. They really don’t care.
    Is what we are involved in at the present time any better? What “Arab Spring: nation has a stable government? Which government have we assisted in forming now has peace the peace and security we told them they would have. We went into Iraq for about 5 different reasons, presented one after another as the previous was proved to be wrong. Did we win a war? Now in Afghanistan, which we entered to save the people and assist them in forming a stable government we are pulling out under the same conditions. I think they’ll be happy to see us gone and would like us to continue to send them a check every month.
    We will never know the true cost of these conflicts and continue to send aid, which the Tea Party is in favor of. That makes two things the Tea Party likes, we’ve just doubled their list. The first is keeping their money.
    Aid is a sore point for most. Who much have we sent throughout the world for humanitarian purposes and how much actually got to the people? How much military aid do we send overseas and what do we get back from it? If something worthwhile were accomplished it would be one thing; but . . . Are we really concerned with Human Rights because there are a few Arab nations we consider friends, because we can count on them to fill tankers, who don’t get a high grade on Human Rights issues and we say nothing about it.
    Now onto the subject near and dear to our hearts. The one that had a large part to play in my losing it yesterday, the Tea Party. We know by their statements and actions that they do not want a Democratic form of Government. I had read an article concerning a TP member of Congress having a burger being approached by a local who said something like, “We can’t back down on anything. We have to stop Obama.” I hear them rave about our Founding Fathers and the need to adhere to Constitution but what they say and do is against both. It appears that their knowledge of a Democracy and their knowledge of the Fundamentalist Christian view are on the same level.

    A couple of good articles on "Big Think" today