Forum Thread

Boy scout sexual orientation

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  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Just saw on CNN, that Governor Perry of Texas puts in objections, related to that the Boy Scout movement will allow gays to become members.
    It happens to be that as stated about more than 70% of the Boy Scout members have a religeous background as stated by CNN. So I guess the motivation of Perry is pure of the religeous right and has nothing to do with if these kids are wiling to join etc.
    Since I was an orphan, the Dutch government set up a fund for war orphans so they could go to a kind of Boy Scout camp, at a castle with all kinds of games, sports, even marathons through the woods etc. There were absolute no restrictions except you had to be a war duped kid.
    To discrimate an 8 year old or older by not allowing the kid to join because may be he is gay, is indeed discrimination.
  • Democrat
    Meridian, MS
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    Hey Dutch, good point. Does the governor feel that same away about the public schools? Will he go so far as to try and eliminate gays or lesbians from attending public schools? I mean schools and scouting are both public organizations, so if he chooses to ban someone from one, why not the other? And does he intend to go so far as to have some authority figure actually go into the homes of all existing scouts, as well as future applicants, and make the determination that the child is straight or gay? Gimme as break, this guy belongs in a nut-house himself, and God help him if the nut-house discriminates against white, opinionated, politicians.
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    Public schools are taxpayer funded, not Boy Scouts and that's the difference. I'm not saying that makes it right but that is the difference. Scouts as a private organization can legally discriminate. Remember when the super elite Augusta golf club discriminated against women and did so legally until public pressure finally forced/convinced them to allow a couple of female members? Same thing is happening with the Boy Scouts. I believe they will relent but change comes slowly sometimes.
  • Democrat
    Meridian, MS
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    Right you are jamesn, Boy Scouts are not funded by the government, but they are public in terms of who can join their ranks. Any boy, regardless of race, ethnicity, color, or creed can become a scout (same with girls I think, in the GSA). That's all I meant by public, as "available" to the public, out in the open so to speak, really a pro-child group. And not a back-street type of organization that is only open to those who agree with its premises and practices, such as the PLO or other radical group. But you say they can legally discriminate, so does this mean that because a candidate for the entry group (Cub Scouts) is Black, Asian, physically impaired, or the son of a felon, that this specific boy can be denied admittance just because of this one particular fact? I certainly was not aware of that being allowed in this great country. It sure doesn't seem American.
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    Speaking of...they are public in terms of who can join their ranks...how about the Democratic Hub? Open to all as long as they follow the rules. That is legal because they are not publicly funded. Lots of things are discriminatory in this great country and as long as they are not publicly funded, there's lots of legal discrimination. As far as Boy scouts and Girl Scouts, I think they don't discriminate due to race, ethnicity, color or creed although they may have at one time.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    jamesn Wrote: Speaking of...they are public in terms of who can join their ranks...how about the Democratic Hub? Open to all as long as they follow the rules. That is legal because they are not publicly funded. Lots of things are discriminatory in this great country and as long as they are not publicly funded, there's lots of legal discrimination. As far as Boy scouts and Girl Scouts, I think they don't discriminate due to race, ethnicity, color or creed although they may have at one time.
    Unfortunately the Scouts did discriminate against minorities for decades before they started caving to pressure in the 1960's. It took until 1974 for the Scouts to finally do away with racial segregation. It seems like they are doing the same thing this go around with regards to homosexuals in their ranks. You are very accurate when you say that they are a privately funded organization...by name only. In actuality, they receive a lot of help and money from the US Government. Here are a few of their perks:

    The US Code authorizes the Secretary of Defense to lend supplies and equipment and transportation for Boy Scout events.

    All branches of the military issue a promotion (to E2 or E3) for Eagle Scouts, the highest Boy Scout rank. This constitutes discrimination in hiring by the military as well as government approval of the Boy Scouts' discriminatory policies.

    Equal Opportunity regulations in the military explicitly prohibit support of organizations that discriminate. Yet there is a close collaboration between the military and the Scouts. Department of Defense Instruction 1015.9 directs the Secretary of the Army to the Executive Agent for all components of the DoD to promote scouting among military families as directed by the President.

    The U.S. President traditionally serves as the honorary President of the Boy Scouts of America, a tradition which President Obama has continued.

    In early 2005, Congress passed a resolution expressing a sense of the Congress that the Department of Defense should support BSA activities through the use of military personnel, federal land use, and other assistance for their massive Jamborees. The 2005 Jamboree cost taxpayers approximately $8 million.

    In 2008, Congress voted to pass the "Boy Scouts of America Centennial Commemorative Coin Act" (H.R. 5872). The bill mandated that the U.S. Mint create and sell as many as 350,000 one dollar coins commemorating the Scouts' centennial in the year 2010. A ten dollar surcharge on each coin goes directly to the Boy Scouts of America, who will net as much as $3.5 million in the deal.

    http://secular.org/news/government-funding-boys-scouts-discriminatory-policies-unacceptable

    The Boy Scouts do receive both funding and other help from the federal government, so they should be held to the same standard as any other organization that receives public funding. The Boy Scouts are held to a different standard in the public debate. They seem to get things both ways and get to have their cake and eat it too.

    I'm not railing against the BSA and am not suggesting that they are a bad organization. What I am saying is that they have a long history of being well behind the times when it comes to actually living up to the oath that they make each of their scouts swear by.
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    jared you correctly tell part of the story. You say...Unfortunately the scouts did discriminate against minorities...and lots of government and non government organizations did (ref US government/US military for example) and in fact many other "private" organizations did if you go back through history, so the scouts are not even remotely alone in that catagory. Discrimination, "legal" and otherwise, has being happening as long as people have existed and will not end anytime soon if ever.

    As far as federal funding of the BSA, there are lots of "private" organizations that have and do benefit either directly or indirectly from federal taxpayer support.

    And, the Boy Scouts...Living up to their oath...I think they are close to taking another step in the right direction on that issue. I hope so.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    jamesn Wrote: jared you correctly tell part of the story. You say...Unfortunately the scouts did discriminate against minorities...and lots of government and non government organizations did (ref US government/US military for example) and in fact many other "private" organizations did if you go back through history, so the scouts are not even remotely alone in that catagory. Discrimination, "legal" and otherwise, has being happening as long as people have existed and will not end anytime soon if ever.

    As far as federal funding of the BSA, there are lots of "private" organizations that have and do benefit either directly or indirectly from federal taxpayer support.

    And, the Boy Scouts...Living up to their oath...I think they are close to taking another step in the right direction on that issue. I hope so.
    I was in no way suggesting that the Scouts are the only "Private" organization that takes advantage of public funding. I apologize if it was read that way. I fully agree with you that discrimination has been happening as long as humans have existed and most likely never will end, but a guy like me can hope. It is unfortunate that we are well into the 21st Century, but are fighting religious and culture battles of the mid 90's. Gay Equality is going to happen in this country sooner or later. I am on the side of hoping it happens sooner, rather than later.
  • Democrat
    Missouri
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    Discrimination in society often is difficult to pass the changes in the future. You only have to look at world history to see the centuries of discrimination, intimidation, and the horror of mankind against each other fade into the past. Often culture changes for the better, although there are whole social groupings of people that misteriously vanished. What happened to the Myans, Vikings, and many native sects in South America?

    Now I'm not saying Gay communities will disappear. On the contrary they/we will all continue to evolve together.

    We used to burn Witches at the stake, maintain black slaves in dehumanizing conditions, and round up all the Oriental looking people putting them into camps. This all happened in our good ole USA developing history. Can I ask, "Do we do this today?, or is it necessary for all to reflect a moment on social strategy in a change to a better people.

    I am involved in Boy Scouting and have been for a long time. I now enjoy my grandchildren growing up in scouting. It's a great organization. It is not an organization that should teach discrimination in any form. That means to show respect to gays as well as those in other religions. What will be harder to accept in the future than this Gay issue will be aethism. The Scout Oath, "On my honor, I will do my best, To do my duty to GOD and my country..............". This is a strong belief and a main issue. There are dozens of religions that have Scouting and all believe in this issue on GOD. The Gay situation should not be an issue, but it is out of fear of not knowing what may happen to a young scout being guided by a Gay leader. The Boy Scout Association (BSA) will get over the Gay issue and we in scouting will deal with it. What we need to learn is "RESPECT", as the song goes. I am more worried about removing GOD in this GOOD organization.
  • Independent
    Plymouth, WI
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    Dutch Wrote: Just saw on CNN, that Governor Perry of Texas puts in objections, related to that the Boy Scout movement will allow gays to become members.
    It happens to be that as stated about more than 70% of the Boy Scout members have a religeous background as stated by CNN. So I guess the motivation of Perry is pure of the religeous right and has nothing to do with if these kids are wiling to join etc.
    Since I was an orphan, the Dutch government set up a fund for war orphans so they could go to a kind of Boy Scout camp, at a castle with all kinds of games, sports, even marathons through the woods etc. There were absolute no restrictions except you had to be a war duped kid.
    To discrimate an 8 year old or older by not allowing the kid to join because may be he is gay, is indeed discrimination.
    As far as I know, 8 year old boys don't have sex, gay sex or straight sex, or do they now a days? I don't think what an 8 year old boy thinks of sex is any adults business except his parents, and if someone makes it their business they should be arrested.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    "united" Yes you are right; live and let live; another thing is that I'm of the impression that the boy scouts here are kind of too much "militarized", which is not the case in Europe; which is more like a "free" enjoyable enterprise. I get the feeling that they here are much more pushed to get "stripes/medals" like the military, and would not doubt that a lot of them indeed end up in the military. I saw on TV a guy with both legs and an arm gone; then I think by myself did the parents raise that kid for years and years, just for canon fodder?
    Therefore I think the European scouts training emphasizes more on the personalty on what you want to become in life as a healthy sporty person.
  • Independent
    Plymouth, WI
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    Dutch

    I just can't figure out what kind of a person things they have the right to know what someones child thinks about gay sex or any sex for that matter. If someone asked my 8 year old something about sex, I would kick their perverted ass!
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    "united" I fully agree; the thing what amazes me over and over again is all the fuss over these things like this, abortion etc. I wished they would focus that attention instead to our never ending wars etc.