Forum Thread

For Whom The Bell Tolls

Reply to ThreadDisplaying 7 Posts
  • Democrat
    Lawrence, MA
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    The USA is dead. No one knows exactly when the cancer set in but a good guess would be around the time of the Vietnam War. By the time of George W's election the disease was terminal. With the demise of the USA went many of the values it tried to encompass....the fair trial, privacy, freedom from illegal search and siezure, the right to unionize and many more. Oh, most of the buildings are still standing .....the White House , the Empire State, Fenway Park etc. The former citizens are still running around the malls consuming everything in sight.....American Idol and Dancing With The starts is still providing the intellectual fare to fill their heads. But, make no mistake, the USA is dead. A name has not yet been given to this jack booted thing that has replaced it, but there's no hurry. It's going to be with us for quite awhile, and as Ronald 'Dopey Dildock' Regan said a few years ago.....You ain't seen nothing yet........Here tis'. Almost a decade ago Macedonian officials kidnapped a German citizen named Khaled El-Marsi
    and turned him over to the Cia as is the practice. After a period during which he was tortured and sodomized and not allowed to contact family, lawyer or the German consulate he was released. However before his release, he continued to be tortured after the US realized it has mistaken El-Marsi's identification. He has been seeking redress from the US ( the new US ) since his release, but has met with complete silence......In December the European Court Of Human Rights ruled that El-Marsi's persistent and horrifying allegations that he was abducted and tortured as part of the CIA's "war on terror"were established beyond reasonable doubt." The ruling by 17 judges was unanimous.......This doesn't matter to the new US because it only ackowledges human rights abuses when other nations are committing them. ( I'm going to post this and continue it with another post because it has already disappeared on me twice .) cont.
  • Democrat
    Meridian, MS
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Left, you said this:


    "Almost a decade ago Macedonian officials kidnapped a German citizen named Khaled El-Marsi and turned him over to the Cia as is the practice. After a period during which he was tortured and sodomized and not allowed to contact family, lawyer or the German consulate he was released."

    You go on in your second part of this thread to lay the blame at President Obama's feet. Need I remind you that he was elected president in 2008, and took office in 2009. If this offense you are discussing took place in 2003 or 2004, how can you lay the blame on our President today? Even his time in the Senate (2005-2008) was AFTER this event supposedly occurred. And remember, his first year or two of that Senate term was his initial venture into national politics, so I cannot see any way that a rookie or second year senator would have anywhere close to the stature or influence to be a significant contributor to such a "top-shelf" political maneuver. Also remember who actually WAS the president at that time, and maybe you should be pointing the finger at him.
  • Democrat
    Lawrence, MA
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    michaels39301 Wrote: Left, you said this:


    "Almost a decade ago Macedonian officials kidnapped a German citizen named Khaled El-Marsi and turned him over to the Cia as is the practice. After a period during which he was tortured and sodomized and not allowed to contact family, lawyer or the German consulate he was released."

    You go on in your second part of this thread to lay the blame at President Obama's feet. Need I remind you that he was elected president in 2008, and took office in 2009. If this offense you are discussing took place in 2003 or 2004, how can you lay the blame on our President today? Even his time in the Senate (2005-2008) was AFTER this event supposedly occurred. And remember, his first year or two of that Senate term was his initial venture into national politics, so I cannot see any way that a rookie or second year senator would have anywhere close to the stature or influence to be a significant contributor to such a "top-shelf" political maneuver. Also remember who actually WAS the president at that time, and maybe you should be pointing the finger at him.
    Michaels, I stand corrected on the timing. Thank you. But, of course, El-Marsi has been trying for years under Obama's administration for redress with absolutely no response. I used him as an example. There are hundreds if not thousands more like him. I don't think of this so much as pointing a finger at Obama as trying to get folks to look at what this country is doing and has, in fact, become. Compared to what is going on at home and around the globe whether Obama was a Senator, a candidate or the President is a minor point. In fact, the personalities are not the issue so much as the policy . This horrendous policy was at work under Bush. It is still in place under Obama. But your correction is well taken.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    "left" I'm sorry to say; I've read in the European news many more "things" which are not published here; the "wiki leaks" guy was not the only one who found out things. I hope you feel better and enjoy your Dutch jenever.!!
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Topics like this need attention in mass media. Where's TIME magazine, Newsweek, US News and World Report, NY Times, etc. It has to become known to the country as a whole. Then the president will need to take a position. Now he's screwed if he blasts the CIA without major punishment to many in charge. Does he really want a CIA that is that wholesome ? I don't know. We shouldn't support torture if we don't want it practiced against US citizens. We looked really bad when the abuses were made known in the Iraqi prisons. We looked really bad when our soldiers urinated on the Korans. These actions need harsh punishments or we have absolutely no credibility in this world.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    TJ Wrote: Topics like this need attention in mass media. Where's TIME magazine, Newsweek, US News and World Report, NY Times, etc. It has to become known to the country as a whole. Then the president will need to take a position. Now he's screwed if he blasts the CIA without major punishment to many in charge. Does he really want a CIA that is that wholesome ? I don't know. We shouldn't support torture if we don't want it practiced against US citizens. We looked really bad when the abuses were made known in the Iraqi prisons. We looked really bad when our soldiers urinated on the Korans. These actions need harsh punishments or we have absolutely no credibility in this world.
    We already lost our credibility already due to the "2nd Amendmend" circus; how can we tell others how to run their countries, if we can not run our own? We sure are no longer an good democratic example for the world.
  • Democrat
    Meridian, MS
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    AMEN Dutch, and just look at Europe as an example. They have been around far longer than the U.S., so we should look to them for whatever successes they have had. Sure they have had failures and lapses too, but we can and should learn from their far greater expertise on some issues.