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Unemployed being suppored by the "taxpayer"

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  • Independent
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    This is my voice.

    I do not understand why the "taxpayer" has to fund the unemployed that do not contribute to there community or country. Whilst living in Australia the government there had it all wrong until 10 years ago, when they finally put an end to wasted "taxpayers" contribution into the unemployed. This is how it worked:
    If you were unemployed and receiving a benefit after being out of work for more than 6 months, a scheme was started for the unemployed to contribute 16 hours per fortnight back into the community, this could be in the way helping with the elderly, help keep the environment clear and clean of rubbish, help with the beautification of parks and gardens, the list is endless. This gives the unemployed a sense of worth and self esteem and able to communicate with others. Using this method the unemployed weren't branded as lazy and worthless they gave something back, this also enable them to obtain further skills and in a lot of cases gain paid work.

    If the unemployed did not work the 16 hours a fortnight then their benefits are reduced. Of course there are the genuine unemployed who can never work again, then they should be placed on the disability pension, this allows a regular check up with a government supplied GP, and not forgotten by the system
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    You're assuming (falsely) the unemployed don't want to work. They can't find work thanks to greedy Capitalist corporations, not because they don't want to - the jobs do not exist and we (the country as a whole) are not educating them properly for the ones that do exist.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    kassa,
    I am unemployed for the last 13 months. I would love to find employment but it's tough. I do volunteer 2 days a week working with senior citizens at an old folks home in town. I was employed for slightly over 30 years at my last job. I don't feel that I am a drain on the system.
  • Independent
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    Hi Mr pgr
    I'm not assuming anything, this is my voice and your's is your own. What happen to apprenticeships, government bodies used to pay a percentage to companies to employ apprentices so the trade doesn't die with the aged, this fixed the issue with jobs not existing. The Government shouldn't be held fully responsible to fix the unemployment problems, or the greedy Capitalist corporations as you have mentioned, but we the people need to brain storm to find a solution, we can't sit around and do nothing. Those of you who are unemployed that really want to want, and I do know a few that do, will try to to get a job, they will buy a newspaper, apply for jobs via emails, send in resumes. There are jobs available, not on top of the ladder by all means and not a very good salary but even so it is a job, it has to be better then the unemployment benefit.
  • Independent
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    Dear Reader,

    As I had mentioned before in my first thread, most of those that are unemployed who have not contributed anything to their community or country are the ones that should be made to volunteer and provided at lease 16 hours per fortnight to enable payment of their benefit. Why would you feel that you would be a drain on the system , as you have mentioned, you had been working for the past 30 years, that would mean you payed your taxes and contributed to your community and country. The fact that you are also volunteering also says that you are willing to as much as possible to get back into the workforce and I comend you on that.
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    My Troll detector is starting to beep.

    I hope not, but you obviously don't have a clue about the unemployment problem and how to fix it. You seem to assume (hopefully, I'm misunderstanding you) that the real reason people can't find work is they are lazy or really don't want to find work until they are forced to.

    If this is the theory you are trying to promote I'm afraid it won't work, here at least.
  • Center Left Democrat
    Democrat
    Flagstaff, AZ
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    pgr:


    I agree with you that the original poster on this thread sounds like a Republican, some of whom feel that all the unemployed people are lazy.

    The most telling comment is by McClellan Johnson, who has been unemployed for 13 months, and is now 51 years old.

    At that age, it's very difficult to find another job with the same pay and benefits. I'm speaking from experience, because it happened to both me and my wife.

    I was laid off from my insurance job in 1998 (at age 51). At the time, I was making about 70k a year, and had great benefits, and had been
    working in the industry for 30 years.

    Ultimately, the only job that I could find were commissioned sales jobs, first with MetLife, and later as a car salesman. My peak year with MetLife paid me about $40,000. The house got foreclosed in June of 2004, roughly 4 months after the car got repossessed.

    Since I could see the handwriting on the wall, I moved to China in December of 2003, and became a college level English instructor, which turned out to be one of the smartest decisions of my life.

    My wife worked as a nanny in an affluent Chicago suburb, but lost her job when the woman of the house decided to stay home with her kids.
    At the time, my wife was making $33.000 a year, and NEVER DID find another job, other than part time babysitting. Her unemployment ran out a few months after we moved to Arizona, and it took her nearly 18 months to find a job here - and it paid 8 bucks an hour.

    The link below lists the unemployment rates in all of the countries of the world:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_unemployment_rate


    Australia isn't actually a lot better than we are, but I don't believe that 90% of the people in Naura are lazy, or that EVERYBODY in North Korea
    is really, really industrious.

    In 1932, the unemployment rate in America was 23.6%. It wasn't that all those people were lazy, it was just that the mis-guided austerity programs of the Hoover administration caused the economy to shrink, and job opportunites disappeared. FDR briefly re-instituted austerity programs in 1937 - and the economy shrank by 30% in less than a year:

    http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104719.html

    Are some of the people that are unemployed lazy? Sure.

    Are some of the people who are WORKING lazy? Absolutely!

    Our government long ago set up programs to allow the "working poor" to make a meaningful contribution to society, instead of collecting
    unemployment of welfare. In you know anyone who's foolish enough to believe that Mitt Romney could have created 12,000,000 new jobs, all I can add is this:

    http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/c0.0.396.396/p403x403/524721_543423565669411_467799711_n.jpg
  • Independent
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    Dear Readers

    You are all missing the point, you need not to read between the lines as there isn't any, if you read my thread again you will see that I never mentioned those who have contributed to their county and community, but rather those who hadn't. You are all going over the top, put some of your energy into a solution and not just think your statements on paper will fix these issues. We are all in the same boat (so to speak), we as human beings need to come together to come up with a solution. Going back to basic's is the only solution we know that works, we are consumed with materialistic things, this needs to change. I too have worked all my live and only I can be responsible for the path that I take, we need to stop the blame and get on with it.
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    kassa Wrote: Dear Readers

    You are all missing the point, you need not to read between the lines as there isn't any, if you read my thread again you will see that I never mentioned those who have contributed to their county and community, but rather those who hadn't. You are all going over the top, put some of your energy into a solution and not just think your statements on paper will fix these issues. We are all in the same boat (so to speak), we as human beings need to come together to come up with a solution. Going back to basic's is the only solution we know that works, we are consumed with materialistic things, this needs to change. I too have worked all my live and only I can be responsible for the path that I take, we need to stop the blame and get on with it.
    Wrong. We need to declare the American Manufacturers Association as a terrorist group. That group hates us workers. Our trade rules are a mess and that is why our jobs were shipped out. All politicians who say "they're gone and not coming back" and those who want to impose austerity are the ones to blame for the trade being wrong. The first rule in problem solving is to identify the problem. Get the first step wrong and the solution will be way wrong.
  • Independent
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    Dear Wovengem

    You are the voice, the people are the voice, so where is your VOICE. You have elections, the people vote, you need to have the bigger voice, to be heard, and band together. Surely we still have freedom of speech, so why not use your right to stand for what you believe in. We all whinge and complain, write about it, but still we do nothing about it. Being negative brings people down, why not try to be positive for a change, you are alive, have loving families. The younger generation do not have a hope if we do not stand up for what is right, or at least try.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Dallas, TX
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    Involuntary unemployment is a consequence of government not spending enough for the users of the currency to pay their taxes and save what they try to save.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Yes, I'll put in my two cents, I can imagine the frustration of "kassa" but I agree with the majority that this is again a cultural problem.
    In my own situation; my company went bust when I hit 55, so I know also what it is like. The cultural problem is "capitalism" and "greed", this drives the job market; the word is "consume" and "consume" that creates jobs here. Since our government is "money" driven via the "lobby" system, this employment (up& down) happening will stay here. Ever noticed that when we have a full scale war employment is at its best?
    In countries where the expenditure is not made for a large portion on defense; these funds are used for infrastructure instead and cultural aspects. Since we are so fond of all kind of junk made in China etc. and are addicted to it, we need jobs to pay for that junk which we do not make ourselves.etc Look at the Sandy happening; if for instance a better infrastructure was set up before Sandy a lot of houses could have been saved by better "water" management and building codes/permits (not allowed to built directly on the beach without protection walls etc.)
    The same accounts for New Orleans; always mopping up first than may be make changes etc. So if the government would spent more time and money on improving infrastructure,which creates real jobs then a lot of disasters can be prevented or if so be less costly afterwards and become again a political footbal as now. So keep buying China junk and create only jobs in "defence" that wil certainly improve the job market, right??
  • Independent
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    Dutch Wrote: Yes, I'll put in my two cents, I can imagine the frustration of "kassa" but I agree with the majority that this is again a cultural problem.
    In my own situation; my company went bust when I hit 55, so I know also what it is like. The cultural problem is "capitalism" and "greed", this drives the job market; the word is "consume" and "consume" that creates jobs here. Since our government is "money" driven via the "lobby" system, this employment (up& down) happening will stay here. Ever noticed that when we have a full scale war employment is at its best?
    In countries where the expenditure is not made for a large portion on defense; these funds are used for infrastructure instead and cultural aspects. Since we are so fond of all kind of junk made in China etc. and are addicted to it, we need jobs to pay for that junk which we do not make ourselves.etc Look at the Sandy happening; if for instance a better infrastructure was set up before Sandy a lot of houses could have been saved by better "water" management and building codes/permits (not allowed to built directly on the beach without protection walls etc.)
    The same accounts for New Orleans; always mopping up first than may be make changes etc. So if the government would spent more time and money on improving infrastructure,which creates real jobs then a lot of disasters can be prevented or if so be less costly afterwards and become again a political footbal as now. So keep buying China junk and create only jobs in "defence" that wil certainly improve the job market, right??
    Dear Ft Myers

    I also agree to your statement of accounts, "supply and demand", this is all we are doing, go back to basics and see what country will survive then. We should be employing locals with local knowledge, and help each other out, because the government doesn't care about us who are middle class or lower class. Money talks, so if you have plenty of it, you can get in the ears and the mind of most political leaders. The taxpayer are the ones that keep their county afloat, we pay tax on our wages (for the ones that are working) pay tax on the goods that we purchase, pay luxury tax (if you have enough money), pay taxes on your home, in some countries they still pay the death tax. It would be easier to have a "One Tax" system, and can be understood by all. As I look around where I live I notice buildings boarded up, shops vacant, rubbish thrown over the streets, gardens uncared for, as you walk around the people don't greet you anymore or give you a smile as they look up. What has happened to us. How can we bring up children in this state that our countries are in. What I do notice is the giant supermarkets updating their technology, self serve checkouts, showing large profits made every year. Public transport going up and up food on the rise every time we turn a corner there is someone that wants another piece of us. The two most import questions we need to ask and they are "Why is this happening and How do we stop it. Firstly the readers that have followed along in my posts have come up with the "Why, but now come up with the "How" to fix it. Its not an easy job to do, you are not going to please everyone, I'm sure none of us want another world war, history has shown with the other wars (1 & 2), apart from the sad events of loss of life, the countries were able to start again, but not to repeat the same mistakes they had previously. Create employment, help your fellow man. With today's technology if another war did break out, I'm not sure if there would be anyone left to be able to start over again, God forbid it doesn't get to this stage. So my question is still "What do we need to do (as a whole) to fix this"
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Dallas, TX
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    If we can have full employment in wartime, we can have full employment in peacetime.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    "kassa/ B.B. Sure the point I'm making is that this country's "capitalistic" system has to "bend" a bit more to the European style.
    First of all as solutions (which I think is needed) cut defense expenditure in half; how? that is quite easy; we already have the "big" stuff to flatten three quarter of this earth, so that looks to me sufficient; the new stuff which are more or less "hobby" items like the F35 were built because we were yealous of the Brits who invented the Harrier, so we should built our own (again like everything, go against the grain) People (experts?) will say no, this one can do so much more and defeat any enemy; so in other words we have to find an enemy who has at least the same capability otherwise it is no fun shooting gold fish in a bowl. so scrap that hugely expensive program. Unless we want to start the next war in a couple of weeks!! Then we could charge higher import duties on any cheap plastic junk, which we absolutely do not need; like 20 model can openers or plastic pudding forms.etc With that money we can pay of some of our debt to China as a counter to the higher import fees.
    Furthermore re-education in this country related to "buying"; we should be buying for "value" instead of "need to have "gadgets". If kids learn that at an early age, then also the "greed" factor disappears, so in later life they will shop only for what they really need; not like "everyone has it" so I need it too!! Just buying to "consume" is a total wrong concept, as promoted daily on the ad's As I said in some other "threads" a lot can be safed on efficiency in the social programs like "medicare" which is daily ripped of by the medical industry and doctors. Which according to others is close to 50% overcharged. So these are some of my idea's which likely will not fly because of our "lobby" industry, which buys our representatives.
    So the "buck" stops there; the only thing I do is always make a list when I shop and stick to it, so I only come home with real food etc. nothing else.