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Israel - Hamas

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  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    Israel and Hamas are fighting again. Negative comments are coming out of Yemen, Egypt, and Turkey. Story linked below.

    http://m.npr.org/news/front/165258549?start=5

    In a related story that I have read, it suggested that the Missels/Rockets fired by Hamas were made in Iran. That's not good.
  • Center Left Democrat
    Democrat
    Flagstaff, AZ
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    McClellan:


    It doesn't appear that the rockets fired by Hamas were made in Iran, which would make the situation even more complicated
    that it already is.

    The Qassam rockets apparently are manufactured by Palestinian militants.

    In addition to being cheap to make (about $800) one unusual characteristic of the rockets is that one of the propellants used is ...

    sugar.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qassam_rocket
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Now that this event is escalating I wonder about the timing. As you may remember during the elections here there were continuous ad's about Isreael and how dangerous Iran was etc. Somehow I see a connection. Kind of strange that right after the elections this all of a sudden pops up.

    I see on the news that a lot of "drones" are involved; (sold by us?) Anyway our war industry will profit from it; (was this a setup?), because Rommelbee did not get its way to expand military budgets? I'm scared this may escalate further into the region; do we want that?
    I guess the US may get involved because of their Israel ties. So we may then get even the more moderate (changed muslim countries) on our backs. Fantastic!!! I guess our middle east policies never worked since 1948!!
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    That guy,
    Thanks for that info. It makes me wonder about the other article that I read that reported the Iran origin. It makes you wonder if that fit their agenda. (those who wrote that part of the story - or added that)
    The thing that surprised me was the harsh comments from Turkey. This I watched on the news. Apparently, in the past the Turkish were pro-Israel or at least nuetral. Egypt was visiting Gaza during the events.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    I just wonder if anyone realizes what is going on. Do not forget the objective of Isreal always has been to get the same borders as in the very "olden" days. It used to be a Palestinian country for centuries. The Palestinians were squeezed into tiny pieces of land (Gaza). Isreal makes their lives as difficult as they can. How would you feel if all of a sudden the Indians would chase you out of your house? This problem started from the day that the US and others created that state. I guess Israel will do everything to obtain their goal, whatever it takes, even if it will escalate in the rest of the middle east. Just for the fun of it read the "Bible"; there were always wars in and around Israel, since the beginnig of time. Nothing new!
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    Dutch you are right there's nothing new about Israel and its neighbors killing each other. Never seems to be any lasting peace, just time to reload and re-stock weapons. How much time and effort has been spent by America to get Middle East Peace? Several administrations have tried and without much success except for Carter.
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    That guy in Arizona today I am hearing reports that some of the longer range rockets fired into Israel ARE from Iran. I'm not sure that anyone really knows where all of the rockets originated, but it would hardly be surprising if Iran were giving rockets to Hamas.
  • Democrat
    Lawrence, MA
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    Dutch Wrote: I just wonder if anyone realizes what is going on. Do not forget the objective of Isreal always has been to get the same borders as in the very "olden" days. It used to be a Palestinian country for centuries. The Palestinians were squeezed into tiny pieces of land (Gaza). Isreal makes their lives as difficult as they can. How would you feel if all of a sudden the Indians would chase you out of your house? This problem started from the day that the US and others created that state. I guess Israel will do everything to obtain their goal, whatever it takes, even if it will escalate in the rest of the middle east. Just for the fun of it read the "Bible"; there were always wars in and around Israel, since the beginnig of time. Nothing new!
    Dutch. As a younger generation used to say a few decades ago - Right On !...This morning's Globe informs us that Israeli missiles killed about a dozen civilians yesterday including children. It's noticeable and discouraging that the so called Chriustian churches have nothing to say about making war on civilians which is now commonplace throughout the world----the Middle East, Afghanistan, Iraq etc. It's fine for them to oppose abortion, but they tolerate the abortion of children once they are born. Augustine of Hippo opened the door to this eventuality 16oo years ago when he formulated his " just war theory." At first the practice slowly escalated, but the pace has picked up rapidly in the last century. Considering the unthinkable weapons at the disposal of the world's political maniacs. it is not hard to imagine that a circumstance will eventually arise where their iuse will seem advantageous or justified. Onward ( we hope )
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    "Leftofcenter" Yes I hate to admit that you are absolutely right. Sorry to say people themselves made up all these rules; no one from outerspace did. Because of that the human "mixture" is more "stirred" than "shaken" nowadays (I mean due to more media available worldwide) the "balance" of power is more shifted than ever in all area's ( governments/churches/ industry/money, you name it) This creates the unrest in this world right now.
    Because there were no World Wars lately ( so you can start with a clean sheet again) the imballance continues. Sure this affects all of us including little kids. I've never seen a armed conflict where kids were not duped. My parents were killed in WWII, so I know all about it.
    But anyway you or I cannot change the present world. I hope and pray that someday people will come to their senses on this tiny planet, sorry but I doubt that.
  • Democrat
    Brookline , MA
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    In our Christian Bible.....in the First Testament (God) "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" I believe is the core reasons for all this in fighting..we can never have peace. It seem this line has the tone of "revenge". In the second Testament (Jesus Christ, the Son of God) it is "Love they neighbor as thyself" But you see, there is no Second Testament in the Bible of the Middle East. They just recognize God not Jesus Christ. Jews never believe in Jesus Christ, they think Jesus Christ was only one of the Prophets, they are still waiting for the coming of the Messiah. Jews only recognize God none other....so goes "an eye for and eye, a tooth for a tooth" ....you "pluck my eyes I'd pluck yours" So when do we see peace? I guess never. Surprise me in the Bible, all this countries in the Middle East involve in wars JESUS CHRIST WALKED (SET FOOT) IN ALL THIS LAND. If one has to look at the Bible Maps, and translate them to the modern name of today...Israel, Iran, Iraq, Palestine, Syria, Libya, Jordan, Egypt, Yemen, etc.... I could not help but wonder why these countries are so much in trouble...seem like there is a curse to all this land. Why? Can anyone elaborate?
    Back to Palestine & Israel....well, I am with the President...Israel has a right to defend themselves. Palestine made the first move UNPROVOKE.
    Palestine does not know who they're messing with for sure. Israel got the nuke capacity. For now, I watch...I believe there is a peace talk on "cease fire" we will see.
  • Democrat
    Lawrence, MA
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    Dutch Wrote: "Leftofcenter" Yes I hate to admit that you are absolutely right. Sorry to say people themselves made up all these rules; no one from outerspace did. Because of that the human "mixture" is more "stirred" than "shaken" nowadays (I mean due to more media available worldwide) the "balance" of power is more shifted than ever in all area's ( governments/churches/ industry/money, you name it) This creates the unrest in this world right now.
    Because there were no World Wars lately ( so you can start with a clean sheet again) the imballance continues. Sure this affects all of us including little kids. I've never seen a armed conflict where kids were not duped. My parents were killed in WWII, so I know all about it.
    But anyway you or I cannot change the present world. I hope and pray that someday people will come to their senses on this tiny planet, sorry but I doubt that.

    Dutch, No. We , as individuals can't change the world, but if we make an attempt perhaps we can put a dent in it. A few decades ago there was
    Catholic Worker anarchist named Aamon Hennacy. He used to stand outside the U.N. building in NYC every day with a peace sign. He did this for years. One day a U.N. worker , who had passed many times, said....Why do waste your time like this. Don't you know you can't change the world?
    Hennacy said.....I know. I'm just trying to keep the world from changing me........ I'm just reading a book of essays about the effect the War in Vietnam had on the children of that nation. It seems they were the most numerous victiims. They were killed and maimed in the tens...probably hundreds of thousands. A similar situation is now prevalent in the the Middle East hopefuly not as rampant.....This weeks' Washington Spectator
    has a quote from President Eiesenhower from a speech he gave over 50 years ago.....I believe toward or at the end of his 2nd term....
    Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a rttheft from those who are hungry and are not fed,those who are cold and npot cvlothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spend the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one heavy bomber is this : a modern brick school for more than 30 cities.....It is two fully equiped hospitals. It is some 50 miles of concrete highway. We pay for a single fighter plane with new homes that could have housed more than 8000 people....Under the cloud of threatening war it is humaityt hanging from a cross of iron...............
    It's too bad Ike didn't act on this understanding at the beginning of his 8 years in office. Still, it is a monumental insight from a man who was probably the most important general of the 20th century. On his last day in office he also warned the nation about the ominous alliance bewteen the military and the industrial weapons complex......
    My philosophy is that we should bloom where we're planted......We can' adviise presidents and heads of state and their cohorts. But we can do what you're doing....let our voices be herard. Talk to our neighbors and friends. Go to a peace rally...Put the above quote in with your greeting cards. There are things we can do. Maybe we will not come out on top, but we will notfound be found wanting. Peace.


  • Democrat
    Meridian, MS
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    IF the Jews and any other group(s) do not recognize Jesus Christ as God (2nd Person) , then I say they are wrong. Jesus was born with Jewish heredity; were not (especially) Mary and Joseph practicing Jews?, and the Bible even relates the Resurrection (Matthew28: 1-15) and Ascension (Luke24: 50-53). So if they believe He was merely a Prophet, how did He rise from the dead and ascend into Heaven? Tell me about ANY other Prophet, or any other human being, who ever did that, or was reported to have done that!

    Insofar as the Middle East, it does seem like there is a curse upon this geographic area. As a person of Faith, I can only surmise that it is because of its being the land where Jesus was born and reared, and also where the residents went so far as to condemn and execute Him, even though He was without sin. I have no idea whether it is God allowing that to happen or the devil's work going on in the place where the Most Holy One walked the Earth, but either way it COULD be because of the significance of that geographic location. Sure there are instances of war, violence, crime, etc. elsewhere in the world, but none of these "other" instances have lasted so long and been so persistent on the residents who are involved. Just chance happening you say? Believe as you wish, I am only presenting my own opinion.

    For my last point I will discuss the Jews and the Palestinians. I understand the fact that the Israelites have nuclear weapons, but would they be so dumb as to bring nuclear ruin and radiation poisoning to themselves, just so they can annihilate their immediate neighbors? One would certainly not think it possible, but IF there is a curse upon the area, I suppose anything COULD happen. Insofar as the peace talks, they have prevented total annihilation for years now, but who knows how long talks can be of significance.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Sorry, but the "thread" is about the present situation; "Jesus" nor any "god" is involved; this is a typical misconception. This situation was created in 1948 by the western world (not "Jesus" nor a "god"). It has been a mess since, because the piece of land allocated to the Jews was inhabited by the Palestinians, who were forcefully driven out of their homes. The expansion drift by the Jews started with the "settlements" etc. This is still the case today.
    So dragging religion and bibles into it will not change any of this situation. Who provides all the weapons to Israel? By doing this, it is kind of logic that countries surrounding Israel are not too happy about what we are doing, so then things get out of hand as could have been predicted a long time ago. Why does Iran wants a nuclear weapon; common sense!: Israel has them!! So actually guess who is the culprit?

    So actually religion (Jesus, a "god") is not involved, only a total mismanagement of weaponary in the middle east and Israelian expansion drift. Because Isreal has always played its game right by having the support from us, (as promised when this "state" was formed); now we are faced with the consequences forever.
  • Democrat
    Lawrence, MA
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    Hey ! This is getting good isn't it...a meaty discussion. ( I spent an hour composing what follows and all of a sudden the entire message disappeared. Maybe I'm being 'moderated" ( sent to the gulag ) or perhaps my key board is the culprit .) In any case I'd like to start by addressing something Mike said. He said that the Arabs who hate Israel are not foolish enough to bring nuclear annhilation on themselves by attaking Israel with nukes. Arabs do not arrive at conclusions using the Aristoltelian logic as our civilization was founded on (and once used. )Almost every day we read of some poor deluded arab blowing himself and dozens of innocent people to smithereens because he thimks this will earn him a ticket to the Garden of Allah where he will be presented with a reward of 60 virgins. If you believe that it isn't possible for someone with a mind set like this to eventually get into a position of political power and launch a nuclear attack I'd like to remind you of a man named Adolph Hitler who brought utter ruin upon his entire nation because of his twisted ideas.......
    The Old Testament. The argument about including the O.T. in the fledgling new Chictian dispensation has been going on since the early church included it in the bible. Gnostic Christians especially tried to point out that the God of the O.T. was a hurler of thunderbolts, a god who caused c hildren to be eaten by bears becuase the made fun of a prophet's beard....while the god thatJesus presented was a loving father who loved his children. The O.T. was included in an attempt to show the jews that Jesus was the Messiah promised in the old prophecies. But Christ himself
    more or less dumped most of that material when he said things like......You have hear it was said- an eye for an eye and a tooth foe a tooth, but I say to you....love your enemies...do good to those who persecute you and you will inherit the blessings of your father. A hard saying, but since bombs, threats and coercion haven't seemed to be doing the trick for sometime now maybe it's worth a second look.....
    After a long life of struggling with these issues I finally arrived at a point where my mind has settled on some ideas that help me sleep at night.
    ITt doesn't matter if Jesus walked on water. It doesn't matter if he turned water into wine. It doesn't matter if he raised lazurus from the dead. It doesn't even matter if there is no hereafter when we die. These things have NOTHING to do with the conduct of our lives....the lives we are living while we're here. That is what matters. Nothing else is up to us. ( I'm going to send this message and then continue it because I'm afraid of losing it again.)
  • Democrat
    Meridian, MS
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    I cannot correctly answer your question regarding who is the culprit for Israel's having a nuclear weapon. I have no idea or proof that the U.S. provided them with their arsenal, or if they used U.S. knowledge to develop their own, or if their own scientists actually developed them, but you are correct, it IS common sense why Iran wants THEM, and not just a single weapon.

    About your earlier comments that the expansion drift by the Jews is still the case today, just go to this site:

    http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/mapstellstory.html and see how dramatic this not DRIFT, but OVERTAKING has been. It appears quite evident to me, what the source of all this conflict really is.