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Try this one more time

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    I tried earlier to get a thread going on this subject...no one bit, so I'll try again. Hurricane Sandy. Ashore...power out in parts of over 15 states.Transportation ground to a halt...especially public trans.Millions and millions without power, water,etc. With no one thinking that by this time next week, we are even approaching normal circumstances...and we are at election day.
    Three quarters of the country votes, normally, no real impediments...while the northeast and New England, well, to put a point on it, don't.
    I've heard all kinds of ideas on how to "handle' this unfortunate(at least for US) situation.None actually work. One bright light bulb, I think it was on CNN, but it might have been MSNBC, can't remember and it's not important, came up with this: What this genius wants to do is have 3/4 of the country vote on Tuesday normally, seal the results and the storm affected areas can vote in a week or two.Couple of minor problems with Einstien's theory here. #1: By a show of hands,please, all on this site who actually believe that in THIS election...3/4 of the country can complete voting...electing not only the President,but over 3/4 of the House and releated senate races, and not ONE single result gets leaked?? Didn't think so.
    So who does this storm impact most. Millionaire Mittens and his Ayan Rand trained attack dog.....or us? Well, unfortunatly,and by a large margin...us. Why? Simple really. The storm hit in the middle of Obama country for starters. Second: A much larger percentage of the Presidents supporters,hence, voters....rely on public transportation than do Romney's, especially in the affected areas.That's NOT going to be back to anything resembling normal in 1-2 weeks...hence, we have a turnout problem that no one saw coming. And a lot of learned pundits in this cycle have said over and over again...turnout will be key.
    And third:How do we make SURE, I mean really SURE, that every soul in these affected areas gets the opportunity to cast ballots?
    Not surprising anyone, Fox(at least as far as I know) has been dead silent on this subject.
    This has the potential to turn into a train wreck. Quite a few of OUR voters...are actually under evac orders, and especially in Jersy and NY...won't be going home any time soon. Where do they vote?
    I do notice,however, with rising concern...that while Mittens and Ryan are going out of their way to recruit "poll watchers" and "poll moniters" and "poll volunteers" in battleground states and are assigning them to mostly minority and poorer polling places.
    And we know they are there to intimidate voters when possible, file innumerible challenges to voter eligibility,etc,etc. But not a word, not even one...on how to get the millions affected by Sandy TO the polls.
    What is this??? One more reason we don't want romney and his FEMA slashing cohorts anywhere near 1600 Penn Ave!!
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    You can bet the churches will be preaching about this, how blue states got the wrath of God. In reality, the East Coast states dictate how the rest of the country will vote, it is clear the opposite has happened, the blue states took the wrath of evil, so the devil Ryan can get elected lol but maybe all too true. They say the devil will come back, one look at Ryan and it is clear he has. Crazy how all these churches can't wait to see the devil elected, just like it has been predicted they would.
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    gymrat --

    You raised an interesting question about how to make sure voters are not disenfranchised by the Sandy storm. ABC News has an internet article which perhaps answers some of your points: Could Sandy Push Back Election Day?

    The storm has already curtailed or altered early voting in nearly half a dozen states along the Eastern Seaboard. With public officials estimating it could take days, if not weeks, to recover from the storm damage: could Election Day actually be moved back from November 6?

    The short answer is it is possible, but very unlikely to happen.

    While there is no federal law on the book that allows Congress to postpone elections, they could theoretically reverse the original statute that established election day. But it is highly unlikely that Congress would pass such a law under these circumstances.

    Individual states have the authority to administer the elections and some states have laws that allow them to push back Election Day. But the laws vary from state to state.

    But the CRS [Congressional Research Report] report makes it clear that states' decision to postpone a presidential election day would be unprecedented in history and could cause conflict between states (in the case of Sandy, between states affected by the storm and states that are not).


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    Getting back to your point about letting other states vote but sealing the results until the storm affected states can vote, that would require unprecedented cooperation between the remaining states. Can you see Texas withholding election results while New York gets their act together? I can't. And besides, as the ABC News article notes, many states do not have the legal means to even postpone the election one day.

    The US Congress with their Tea Party Republicans are not likely to come back in session just to help out the largely blue states. And in the states, Republicans were working to suppress early voting in Pennsylvania on the weekend before election day (when the African-American community traditionally votes), but now Sandy has delivered them an excuse. Ditto for Ohio.

    On the plus side, President Obama is looking very presidential in the way he is interacting with the governors on the crisis, garnering public praise from unlikely people such as Chris Christie. Romney, on the other hand, is on record as planning to get rid of FEMA and pushing the responsibility for disasters back to the states. I don't know how much of this is being broadcast into swing states, but MSNBC is sure covering that point. I doubt that Fox News viewers would get to see those clips though.

    Oh yes, and I'm waiting for Pat Robertson to spin it as God's punishment on the northeast. But he won't be first. See the Huffington Post: Hurricane Sandy Blamed On Gays, Obama And Romney By Preacher John McTernan

    I won't even get into that.
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    It is just a horrible catastrophe that this Storm hit right now, just before a major election, maybe the most significant election in most of our US history. This one election may decide if we continue to have a democracy or become a fascist dictatorship. I know it sounds like hyperbole, but those who have watched politics for many decades are saying that this one election, which will be OVER WITH in approx 6 days --- will be either a WIN for Obama, in which case we still have some semblance of Democracy --- OR we will see the equivalent of a Biblical Armageddon, It may or may not entail a war -- a domestic war against tyranny of the right wing. THEY are the ones predicting (& asking for) a Revolution, As Sarah Palin & many others have said they will demand their "2nd amendment rights." (Which of course are gun rights). They are the ones carrying guns to political rallies, & being told by their right wing leaders to smash windows in Democratic Hdqtrs, like the "kristallnacht" of Nazi Germany. When you see combinations of both stupidity & insanity (even among their top leaders) you begin to see the problem. You can't REASON with stupid or insane people. They are brain-washed, by the Lush Limbaugh types, on the radio 24/7, as part of the propaganda network of the radical right wing, Oh, this is a MUST SEE --- there is a documentary called "Jesus Camp" --- shows how the right wing brain-washes their children from a very early age to hate liberals and even hate normal schools. They are mostly "home-schooled" (often by their semi-literate mothers) to believe that global warming is a fraud, that evolution is not true, and to follow the fundamentalist ideas to the most radical extreme. These children go to "Jesus Camp" by the age of 5, & are given extraordinary mind control techniques, making them almost into robots for the right wing (GOP) causes, & they will grow up to be haters of true education, haters of freedom, & totally biased against any liberal thought. They do insist that their children are home-schooled, because that way, they can control every idea placed into their innocent minds. Not to EVER hear any Truth or Facts about global warming or Evolution, for instance, which most of the educated World believes. So they make the dumbest most gullible "voters" in the future, who will fight tooth & claw against abortion, or birth control, or independent thought. Like most Fox News fans, they won't EVER listen to any other ideas that are not distributed by the right wing sanctioned media. Classical brain-washing.

    NOW, 75% of kids being home-schooled classify themselves as Evangelical Christians. They are all receiving this type of mind-numbing brain-washing, being deprived of a true education, which would teach them logic and analytical thinking. Which is necessary to participate (reasonably) in a true Democracy, where we "choose" our leaders. When you examine their right wing "leaders" -- for example, Michelle Bachmann, who says stupid things that are quite disturbing, to those of us who have basic education & logic. We are not used to hearing adults who are considered to be "intelligent" or well educated, saying ridiculous statements that are pure fiction. It is absolutely absurd that Ms Bachmann is on the Intelligence Committee in Congress. That is like allowing a 14 yr old retarded child to play with nuclear missiles. It is CRAZY. How did she get that assignment? I want to know.

    Then, another weird thing they teach those children (from age 5) is "speaking in tongues." Pretty soon, they have those children believing that they are having visions and receiving divine messages from God. (On cue, of course). Then you hear 5 yr olds, chanting nonsense syllables & acting like they've lost their senses. Maybe they have. One of the worst things about this whole scenario, is that these children were mostly NOT from "Poor" homes. They appeared to live in above average homes, from upper middle class parents, with a decent income and lifestyle. It is so hard to understand why these people would forsake their children's education, & allow this mind-numbing braindead ideology to flourish. But they are being brain-washed themselves by the right wing fundamentalist ministers. They must actually believe, that to save their souls, & go to heaven, they must sacrifice good common sense & practical education. I do wonder how they all make a living. Doing what? Who would hire deliberately uneducated brain-washed people? Let us all know.

    Back to THE ELECTION. In 6 days or less -- ARMAGEDDON. If Mitt Romney & Ryan win this election, it will be the END of Democracy and the END of our American Way of Life, and the END of elections, and free will and basic Freedom in America. They have given us some very clear CLUES, what they intend to do. First of all, they are hell bent on WAR with IRAN, which is 5 times bigger than Iraq, & with 5 times bigger Army than Iraq had. And Iran has important treaties with some very formidable ENEMIES of ours. So it will not be a high school picnic to fight or defeat that nation in combat, Not to mention we are already BANKRUPT due to Bush's 3 wars we have had already since 2001. So with most of our Army crippled or dead, in those unnecessary wars in the near past, & our treasury bankrupt, how do we fight an even bigger enemy into defeat? Answer: NADA. None. If Bush & Cheney & Karl Rove want to fight a war with Iran so darn bad, let THEM put on a uniform & go over there to FIGHT IT THEMSELVES. Or ELSE SHUT UP. We all know what a bunch of "Chicken Hawks" they all are. Always a Hawk that wants War, but a big CHICKEN when it comes to actually fighting in it themselves. (Chicken-Hawks).

    So on election day, or shortly thereafter, who will call the shots in our Congress? Will Grover Norquist still be there to lead the new guys around by the nose? Will he exert invisible puppet strings on the new GOP recruits? They sure look foolish listening to a guy who was never even elected to anything. Most of them were too dumb to even know they were supposed to take their "oath" in person. Or else they had such disrespect, that they didn't even want to go thru the motions of pledging allegiance. They had never planned to take that oath seriously, since all they have done ever since, is to thumb their nose at the Constitution. While taking bribes to vote AGAINST We the People.

    The Founders of this nation, if they possibly could, would LOVE to pay a visit to the Tea Party. They would gallop up to them on white horses, & the thunder of their hoof beats would echo down the halls of Congress. George Washington would crack his whip, and ink wells would clatter to the floor. Jefferson would recite from the Declaration of Independence, with a stern expression on his face. Benjamin Franklin would ring the Liberty Bell with a loud clamor, knocking his bifocals off his nose. Thomas Paine would read to them about separation of church and state. And emphasize to Romney & Ryan that that INCLUDES the Mormon & the Catholic Church. (No church-based Govt). While there, the founders would remind the Tea Party of other (past) Revolutions. -- And tell them that the people STILL remember -- How to Build a Guillotine.

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    Well,at least we've got a short thread going about this. Schmidt is correct,the bright red House will not,under any circumstances, come back into session to help the northeast get ALL of their voters to the polls...along with making sure every one gets the same chances to cast ballots. We have been exposed to the Tea Party since 2008...and all of us are aware by now that nothing in their agenda is for fairness,democratic principiles,etc.They want complete control.
    And both respondents( hello,Eternal Flame!) are correct in that more of these right wing, for-profit preachers will frame this storm as "Gods Will"...to bring back "American values" or some such rot,by canceling the ability of hundreds of thousands of Obama's supporters to even get to polls. No way the Texas delegation comes back to Washington to help poor,black folks in NY.Not in this evnviroment.
    I have stated this before, on this site,and others; and I'll say this again. If the Mittens/Ryan "ticket" prevails(and now,it just might)....within 36 months, we will see open warfare between a "puppet government" and the People.

    During the '08 campaign...during the spring....some Re-Pub(I swear I think it was Backmann...but I can't find where she said it,said "In this election,if ballots don't work,bullets will".
    Ladies and gentlemen...that is a very,very serious thing to say in this country. A country that was born in blood, and in blood have we maintained our freedoms ever since. In blood, the black people were freed, and in blood they were brought to complete citizenship.Over, I might point out, the violent protests of the very same types who are so ardently supporting Mittens and his plan to "put the poor back where they belong and return America to it's rightful owners"
    Now to my last point, and I will gladly yield the mic to schmidt,eternal flame,guy,that guy from Az.,etc. There is a must-see documentary running now on the History Channel called "The men who built America". It focuses,not on Washington,Jefferson,Adams,etc....no. This is a feel good piece on Rockafeller,Vanderbilt,and Carnige.And JP Morgan.And it puts their blatentlyly inhuman practices into a very favorable light. A light that we in this country should be doing everything possible to put OUT once and for all.
    Surffice it to say, this could have easily been written by Paul Ryan. It fawns over the "progress" made by these monsters...and pays not even lip service to the suffering of MILLIONS of poor,working Americans, and the plight they were put in by these Robber Barons.And it makes NO mention of the damage done by these monsters,or how close they came to actually destroying this country of our's.(not their's...our's) And, ladies and gentlemen, please make no mistake about this point...Charles and David Koch and all their associates don't really want an "Administration" of ANYONE! They want what the Robber Barons had.....NO controls on their actions.At all. What's good for them, is cast in stone as "law" and what's good for the rest of us, and this country of OUR'S...gets no mention.
    "The men who raped America" would be a better title for this series. I urge you to watch this series on History. For as one very wise man once said..."those of us who do not study history,are doomed to repeat it". Or,as Bobby Dylan put it "Now I set here so patiently, trying to find the cost,that I have to pay, to keep from going throught these things twice"
    Take care, and be careful.
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    Schmidt,

    I authored a thread, or at least responded to one, I think it was during the Hurricane, suggesting that the election be held as normal for all states except those coastal states north of Georgia. I think it would be quite easy to "hold" the results, not even tabulated yet, as the voting machines hold that data and each commissioner of elections could make sure all machines are held under lock and key until the rest of the country is able to vote. Then on whatever night that would be, certainly in the month of November, ALL votes could be counted and reported that night, just like on a normal election night. Each precinct has multiple voting machines, so there is no way that by somehow revealing the results of 1 or 2 machines in a given ward could be considered as accurately predicting the results for that ward, let alone that city/state. Insofar as Congress getting involved, there would be no need, other than the President to explain to the country that these dire and unpredictable circumstances call for a slight alteration of the usual process's timing only, not its procedure or its results.
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    Flame, The dumbing down and pit bulling of America has been going on for a good while now, but this year we are seeing our first graduating class. Still it matters who becomes president and who runs Congress. More economic bad news is on the way.You have to be pretty myopic not to see that. Under Democrats it will come a bit slower and hurt the working class less than the Republicans. Under Democrats labor unions will be tolerated, under Republicans they will be attacked. Supreme court nominees under Republicans will tend to be economic reactionaries.......The difference between the parties is significant, bu tjust electing Democrats will not stop the fall in the standard of living .Americans will not get back to the "good times" of rising wages from 1947 to 1973, or to the string of credit bubbles that compensated for wage stagnation from 1979 to 2008. The world in which both of those eras pl;ayed out has disappeared.....Then again, the ecological limits to growth are starting are staring at us at every turn. It is predicted that by 2050 we can expect the global population to grow by 2.5 billion to more than 9 billion people, most of them poor in developing regions. We, in the US, represent 5 % of the world's population, but we consume 25% of the world's fossil fuel .
    Unless we have our heads in the sand or have been completely hypnotized by the flag we must realize that our political institutions ore incapapable of dealing with these realities.
    It is already too late to stop the decline in the so called middle clasds standard of living for the next few years. It may even be too late to stop it decling for the next 20 years. But if it is not, reversing the slide will take more than modest changes in economic policy. To bring a different future within our grasp , we would have to first abandon hope that our current political system will deliver it. It is a hopeless illusion to think that we can deal with the long economic twilight of empire that lies in front of us without radically eliminating the dominance of money over this rickety democracy. .....A dismal outlook I know ( what happened to the format ? ) but in a land of human ostriches ..... creatures with vision are better guides.
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    Gymrat, I share your frustration in trying to get a dialog started in the Democratic Hub. Folks just don't seem interested in responding to ideas.....It seems to me they just want to air thier point of view on various issues. No one looks to learn anything in these forums .....This horrible storm could very well diminish the numbers of voters in the Northeast. These are the so called blue states. So if there is a move to expand the number of voting days we can bet our bippys the Republicans will oppose it. Keep plugging.
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    mike39301 has a workable idea. It's simple,fair and would solve any lingering problems that Sandy has wrought. And that is exactly why the re-Pubs won't let it happen.(Don't forget-they control the Supreme Court).
    Please,don't make a mistake here,not now. This isn't an election in the true sense of the word....no, it's a large,sweeping referendum. On what we will look like 10 years from now.
    I refer again to the current series running on History Channel-"The men who built America". What this series actually should be titiled is "The men who almost brought communisim to our shores". Or,if you preffer-"Why naked capitalism will wreck whatever it touches". Those would be correct titiles for this. For it shows us,in colour, exactly what the Koch Brothers and their cronies ACTUALLY want. This "Take back our country" BS...that isn't for US...we never lost it. No, that's for the 19th century robber barons...who had free reign to do as they(and only they) pleased.To the deteriment and even death...of the People. And it was all LEGAL!!
    That, and only that result, is what these modern day wanna-be robber barrons want...freedom. Freedom from regulations of any type.Freedom, to injure,lay off,even kill....workers. with no consequenses.And the workers have NO recourse.
    That's their agenda. And exactly like Caranige had workers gunned down at the Homestead,Pa works around 1890 or so, so these modern robbers want to do the same to us.
    Please, make no mistake...these people, the "old money" have been quietly seething since the '30's. Their anger and contempt is directed at "progressives", who "stole" what they believed was their's by birthright.Namely...all the money and power.And now, at long last, they have their best chance ever to regain this. So quit asking why Mittens won't answer questions before the election: He can't. Because he only truely represents about 4-8% of the population. And if he honestly answered the questions that have attempted to be put to him...he'd lose in a record landslide.
    So for 6 more days...the Reds have to keep the right wing in line. They can't come out and say "yes,we are going to dismantle each and every social safety net that has been put in place over the last eighty years.Yes,we ARE going to re-do the tax code.No, investmsnt income will no longer be taxed." And so on and so forth. (as an aside here...it should be pointed that the only people who have significant income off of investments are, you guessed it, the rich.)
    We stand at an historic crossroads...of the continuation of The United States Of America, or war. For we as a people, are not cut out to live under increasing tyranny.(for historical perspective-see King George 3rd.He will testify that the colonists are NOT going to bend.And are quite hard headed over this democracy thing) And nothing has changed in our DNA.
    There are some apologists running around these days claiming "America is a peace loving nation". No, we aren't. We were born in blood, and in blood we remainded free. And by the shedding of blood, we advanced freedoms. See-civil war, and civil rights as just a couple of obvious examples.
    Since the Koch Bros and their cronies are completly insulated from the REAL world...they have made a fatally flawed deciseon.That is, to take the racist white anger at a black president, combine it with blaming the current ecomomic disaster on Obama(when the fault lies at the feet of Bushie), and a media blitz, the likes of which haven't been seen since the Nazi years,and use all that to effectivly take control of the federal government,all 3 branches. "If you tell a lie long enough and loud enough,the people will come to believe it" Joseph Gobbels(sp)
    Their fatal mistake? Badly mis estimating the reaction of Americans who are suddenly and without warning....stripped of all of our rights to re-dress. Because THAT is what makes us free.Not laws.Laws can and are broken. But we in America have a system of safety nets and re-dress options not open to most other people. Our first line of defense of our rights are the police and LEO(law enforcement organizations).Problem:If the laws are written by and for the wealthy...LEO's become not only useless to us, they become our foe.
    Re-dress option #2: The courts. One of the three(supposed to be) equal branches of a government with "checks and balances" firmly in place. Problem: It's ALREADY next to impossible to get meaningful access to court,unless one has the means to employ $1000 an hour lawyers. I don't have that, and if you are reading this...neither do you. And under a Koch Administration( lets stop playing word games,and call this what it is...it's not a Romney/Ryan ticket.It's a Kock/Koch ticket),can anyone out there give me a figure on how many MORE difficulties the ordinary American will face trying for re-dress in the courts.I can't put a number on that. Probably:impossible.
    Next up the ladder is our RIGHTS to petition congress for re-dress.That doesn't work now.When congress becomes a wholly owned and operated subsidiary of Koch,inc.,that right ends forever. And folks, thats the end of the ladder to re-dress.

    "He who does not study history,is DOOMED to repeat it" Good quote,I wish I knew who to attribute it to, it might have been Einstien...but I'm not sure. But it's not mine. And it is obvious to anyone with eyes...the Koch's have NEVER studied,or even read, history.
    For this country was born,by killing tryants and their footsoldiers, until the tryants were either dead, or gone in some way. The Koch's don't read history...or they would realize that America,far from being the peace loving people that for some reason some try to portray us as,we are the fourth of fifth most warlike nation...that has EVER been on this earth. In war were we birthed,in war we have defended our freedoms and those of others, and in war we rose to the strongest nation the world has seen in a long,long time. Americans are NOT the blind sheep that this Koch ticket believes us to be.And that is the mistake,made by some VERY unprincipiled wealthy,greedy people, who in a grab for power....managed to kick off off the second American Civil War.
    Mistake #2 the Kochs made: They for some unknown reason,seem to believe that only good republicans own weapons. Not true at all. I am about as liberal as one person can get,slightly to the left of Pelosi...and I own weapons.Legally. Moreover, I don't really have any close friends who are radical right wings(I have NO idea why,guess it just worked out that way), my friends come from either the progressive ranks, or the out and out left wing. For the people and all that nonsense.My point in all this...is every SINGLE one of my bright Blue friends, all own multipile weapons.
    Unlike the NRA types(of which I am NOT a member),we don't wave ours around. We don't wear them in public almost as a fashion accessory...but we have them.At home.Safely stored(as is prudent and responsible), cleaned and maintained.And ready if needed.Needed.Weapons are not toys,or status symboles...they are tools.
    Mistake #3 the Koch types have made: We(the people) outnumber them(the wealthy) by a factor of 10 or 11 to 1. And once their draconian measures are fully known,in other words,the Kochs REAL intentions become public....their support from the ranks of poor whites will evaporate like a morning mist. That will leave them in an untendable and indefensible position:outnumbered and outgunned. Bad mistake,bad mistake indeed...not taking history into account when one decides to steal a country like this one.

    Final comment,and let me make THIS ONE as clear as new glass:::Our SYSTEM of government is the best the world has ever seen,bar none. No exceptions. Government of,by,and for the people...administrated by citizen representives, is a system like no other anywhere. I HAVE NOTHING BUT ADMIRATION AND LOVE FOR THAT SYSTEM. But the people who have, and are trying to steal it,change it to fit their narrow wants,hijack it,whatever you wish to term it...I have nothing but loathing and utter contempt for. And I posses NO mercy for them. Their crimes rise to heaven, they are so bad. The only country in the world, where the little man has a chance to prosper, to better him or herself....taken from us in the name of greed,and enriching those who are already rich. NO!!!
    Not now,not later,not ever...will we go back to the "guilded age" of robber barons...I don't CARE how many schools,libraries,etc are named after these long dead assholes.Burn in hell, for all i care.But you will NOT take us back there. Are you listening,Charles? How about you,David? You would be advised to listen. (sorry for any mis-spelling...my spell check on FireFox isn't working and I have no idea how to fix it.My apologies)
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    Well,at least we are getting some "views" on this thread.Last count,this has been at least "looked at' 111 times...which beats the previous record for"threads started by gymrat and viwed by members of this forum" by about 107.Good. I'm making progress,or at least learning how to form sentences.
    Someone out there will probably post on here in the next few days...rationally telling us we have nothing(or at least,not much) to fear.I do hope whoever that person or persons are...they make a very convincing arguement of the issues and possible outcomes I have outlined here. And can prove me unquestionably wrong.I will sleep a lot better if that occurs.
    I will be as honest with you as I have been since I first signed on and posted here.....This scares the hell out of me. And I understand that a few more things must fall the Kochs way for them to execute(no pun intended.OK,OK...some pun intended) their stated goal of control of the federal government...and their stated desire to control what and what not....as far as the federal government goes.Taxes and regulations being at the top of their hit list...but the list is long.Unions.Co-Ops.Any progeressives,any liberals,any spokespeople for the voiceless....and on and on.Cutting out all of our access to the courts,in the name of "tort reform" or in another way of putting it..."making SURE those meddlesome poor people can't sue our company over a small accident or some minor spill of some kind". Minor accidents that kill several workers...can't sue for neglect...tort reform. Minor spill of toxic waste that destroies watersheds? Nope.Tort reform.
    And on and on. That is the agenda of the Koch/Koch ticket.Romney/Ryan are simply surrogrates(damn,I wish I could fix this spell check!)
    Of course...in the intrest of full and complete disclosure,I also wish I was 25 again, and know what I know now. What was that? A question!! Oh boy,I finally get asked a question! On a site as august as this one!! Yes sir,what is your question,if you please??? "if I was 25 again and knew what I know now,would I get rich?" Excellent question. I'm afraid not...as rich has never really drawn a lot of my attention. However,and this is a big however....I have spent a fair amount of time into trying(largely unsuccessfully) to entice the fairer sex into various vertical positions. So in closing,oh kind sir,I am forced to admit that returning me to age 25 would only have the result of getting me laid a lot more. I would hope.
    Good night America,where you happen to be....and peace unto you.
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    Why does Piers Morgan suddenly sound like an aspirant to a position in the Fox Newsroom. In the middle of the Hospital(s) crises where sick people are being transported to facilities that have proper electricity Piers chose to hammer the spokesmen from the hospital about their generator's failure, rather than deal with the issue(s) at hand and that was that hospitals were doing their utmost to transport people to fully functioning facilities. Piers you did yourself no credit in your rant.
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    ajmediator Wrote: Why does Piers Morgan suddenly sound like an aspirant to a position in the Fox Newsroom. In the middle of the Hospital(s) crises where sick people are being transported to facilities that have proper electricity Piers chose to hammer the spokesmen from the hospital about their generator's failure, rather than deal with the issue(s) at hand and that was that hospitals were doing their utmost to transport people to fully functioning facilities. Piers you did yourself no credit in your rant.


    Fox almost certainly pays better.That is pretty obvious. Other wise, how could they get people to work on air there? I'd be afraid one of my (liberal,all my friends are liberals) friends would be channel surfing and see me on Fox. Oh, the shame.Thats all i can think of. Are you sure you replied to the right thread? Not that we don't appreceiate responses,believe me, we like them like a starving man likes Popyes Chicken! But are you sure you're on the right thread?
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    Eternalflame and Leftofcenter; excellent stuff!!!
    Yes indeed it smells as a a take-over by the Mormons; they already own most of Vegas, I guess this whole country will be full of Mormon temples and Casino's.
    Do not forget that the Mormons were prosecuted in the 1800's by the then Central Government; they were chased out of Iowa and fled to Utah. Why does not anyone read the history of the Mormons? Now they are close to getting their revenge after more than 100 years. Indeed fanatic Christians will join them because they are easy to brainwash anyway. They rather have a fake money hungry Christian in the Whitehouse than a "colored"decent person. Yes indeed this would be a historic power grab. The U.S. will never be the same, i.e. a tolerant democratic, hard working, well educated, clear thinking , common sense people will be extinct.
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    Gymrat, Always good to hear from someone who has not been hypnotized by the flag and understands the true nature of capitalism......But I'd like to present an idea that is seldom talked about outside of anarchist circles, but is something worth considering I think.....if only so that we have a better idea of what we're up against......Societies have always been arranged by and for the benefit of the ruling economic classes. There has never been a society where the majority ( the workers ) ruled. When the average citizen looks at "the law" they think mainly of things like traffic signals....don't park in front of a fire hydrant.....the police who come to your home when its been burglaized, speed limits etc. But these are secondary aspects of law. They exist so that some semblance of order will prevail. This is important because exploitation proceeds more smoothly where order exists., and is made more difficult in chaos. But the primary purpose of law is to allow the ruling class to exploit the workers and keep the workers from killing them.....We think that a so called democratic government should serve all segments of society equally and without prejudice. But this is not possible in an exploitative ( capitalist) society, because the obectives of the exploiters ( the users ) and the exploited ( the used ) are polar opposites. Both sides strive to use government revenue for themselves. The used want programs that provide safety nets made necessary by the rapacity of capital.....Social Security, Workman's Comp, Medicare , aid to education etc. The users fight against these efforts with all the money and power at their disposal. Since this power is far greater than the workers can muster it is a constant battle to keep the wolves at bay. The users want access to the national treasury for their own programs .....a strong military to advance their interests in foriegn lands.....subsidies to corporations and agra business,.... give aways to encourage capitalist research,.... military contracts for weapon manufactures, among others. And they want these things with a minumum amount of tax being levied on them and with the working class footing the bill.....Isn't this the exact program Romney wants to inflict on us ? ......Given the realities of our political evolution we certainly can't think of dispensing with law.anytime soon. But if you apply the preceding ideas to all the historic struggles that have gone on within our society in the past I believe we can discern a consistent and revealing pattern. This aids us in understanding the machinations of pirates like Romney/Ryan who are really only the puppets of the real rulers in the US....... So I don't share your enthusiasm for our system of government as being " the best the world has ever seen." It ceratinly is a step ahead of most, but it is still a government by and for the rich.....and I am a son of the working class. That's where my allegiance lies, and I hope there is room for some differences among like minded people..... or at least among people with similar immediate goals. Onward.
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    Left of...thanks for the response...it appears we actually have a thread going here...and that almost always engenders ideas....some good,some not...but the exchange of ideas is always a good thing.
    I agree with you, that all societies and governments have been organized around the thought process that goes something like the old 1950's mantra "Whats good for GM is good for America". And you hit the ten ring on the average citizens concept of "Law"...and how it differs from the eliets concepts of "Law'.
    Polar Oppposites. A great term to accurately describe the process we are now working on...to wit: this election. For there are two distinct opposites in this one. One on the right...speaks for the "users"...while trying his best to appear to be doing just the opposite. While the forces on the left, purport to speak for only the "used"...while attempting to not completely piss off the "users". And neither one is being completely truthful with us,should come as a great surprise to all of us,that professional politicans and their counterpart in buisness...the upper management, tend to not be truthful with us all the time.
    Our SYSTEM of government. Not the way it is executed now...but the original idea...of citizen representation and majority rule, I'm going to have to disagree slightly here with you on this one. Our SYSTEM is the best the world has ever seen for one,and only one, reason. And that was...that our Founding Fathers completely understood,and agreed with your views...that is, all societies contain more "used" than "users".
    And as a counter weight(so-to-speak), they came up with the "one man-one vote" system.Along with other new types of "checks and balances" that we all are familiar with and would accomplish nothing to restate here. That begs the question:Has it worked. Short and sweet answer: no. At least,not like they wanted. But lets not lose sight of one really key element here...whether we are talking about elections,or the polar opposite of elections:war. We(the used) outnumber them( the users,thieves,whatever you wish to name them) by a huge,huge factor.And in THIS country...THAT still matters!
    I said earlier in this thread that there is no Romney/Ryan ticket.They are simply the puppets of the REAL ticket...which is Koch/Koch.And there, in all of there miserable glory...stand the modern day pirates.And facing them is a progressive ( most of the time ) actual ticket of Obama/Biden.
    No one thinks Obama is bought and paid for,as is Romney and all his Tea Party support.We all know by now who funds and backs and directs the Tea's.
    I too am the offspring of poor working(and in our area,farming) people...so ALL of my allegiances lie also with the people-the "used".And we,us,the People...are going to have to decide which we want more.Is it "security" and "peace"? All the while, turning our nation over to the modern day robber barons? Or,or...are we ready to step on these people and say"NO MORE"?

    I still maintain that our "system" as originally devised...is the best ever.we just don't follow that system now. We,us have allowed our RIGHTS and FREEDOMS to be taken from us slowly,over the years for all kinds of good "reasons" National security.No one can argue that national security is right at the top of problems in a world like the one we face....but is it SO pressing,so IMMEDIATE, that we must give up our rights to privacy,our rights to free speach,our rights to not be arrested and held without charges being brought,etc and on and on....all in the name of "national security"? HELL NO!!
    No one with an IQ over 15 would argue that we have faced and are now facing...finincial ruin.But, is it so imminent,so close...that we must strip our treasury and give it to the self styled "job creators"?(who,by the way,aren't creating any,and don't plan on it,unless you live in China) HELL NO!!
    Again, we face a very distinct choice in 5 days.Choose wisely...and always keeping in the back of your mind the sage advise I saw on a bumper sticker the other day" Somedays,the voices in my head say stay home and clean the guns" Trying to end a rant like I get on sometimes...with some humor at the end,sometimes it works and sometimes it crashes. Take care.