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Zach F Wrote: What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Do you have any evidence of this 'god' that was created by the big bang? How is it possible that the most complex thing imaginable was suddenly created while every thing else was extremely simple stuff? Sure the Big Bang theory implies the universe is simple, how simple can you get than the words big and bang, to words a two year old knows the meaning too. In reality, the universe was never simple, back in the beginning or now. Do you have proof the universe and all in it after the big bang was simple? I didn’t think so.
Do I have proof that God was created in the big bang? Yes, I know for a fact God is real, if the big bang did create all and us, it had to of created God then. Or, God created the big bang, either way, we still end up coming from God and not where people who don’t believe in God say we came from.
Man once asserted that the earth was flat, those who said it was round, were dismissed without evidence as well. Youu can keep searching for proof you will never have, who and what God is and where we came from, but to have one hundred percent proof of any of it, you never will, once again, for a very good reason.
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unitedmajority Wrote: Zach F Wrote: What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Do you have any evidence of this 'god' that was created by the big bang? How is it possible that the most complex thing imaginable was suddenly created while every thing else was extremely simple stuff?
Sure the Big Bang theory implies the universe is simple, how simple can you get than the word bang, a word a two year old knows the meaning too. In reality, the universe was never simple, back in the beginning or now. Do you have proof the universe and all in it after the big bang was simple? I didn’t think so.
Do I have proof that God was created in the big bang? Yes, I know for a fact God is real, if the big bang did create all and us, it had to of created God then. Or, God created the big bang, either way, we still end up coming from God and not where people who don’t believe in God say we came from.
Man once asserted that the earth was flat, those who said it was round, were dismissed without evidence as well. Youu can keep searching for proof you will never have, who and what God is and where we came from, but to have one hundred percent proof of any of it, you never will, once again, for a very good reason.
Those who said the earth was round had evidence. The shadow on the moon for example and the measurement of shadows in two different locations at the same time of year and the fact that there is a horizon line. The 'flat' idea was only held to be true for so long because of legends and myths that have been incorporated into religion. The theory that the Earth revolves around the sun wasn't accepted by the Church until 1992.
The big bang doesn't state the universe is simple, the universe started simple, and got more complex as time went on. I suppose that in a way, the Big Bang created God. From the big bang, all matter originates. That same matter now makes up what we are. Our skin and bones, our brains and every other part of man. Then man created God(s). So, no big bang, no god.
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Then today it will be.
Zach F. and WovenGems
Bear with me, and try to keep an open mind for a bit, I know this is going to be a bit long, but this is not an easy subject to explain in short. Trust me, I could go on forever talking about creation, evolution, karma, UFO’s, ghost, reincarnation, and most other subjects man struggles to find answers for. My life gave me personal 100 percent belief in God, something most never have. However, my personal knowledge is just that, unless you live it, it is just a story from another, so I won’t get into any of that here.
I take it you two do not believe in God as our creator or anything. According to modern day religion and religions of old, you both would be on a one way trip to hell.
I don’t believe what these religions say about whom and who does not get to go to heaven, nor does my belief in God come from a book or a certain religion. Last year was the first time I ever read some of the bible, only after an insistent family member, who got to read and hear about my personal proof and belief of God. The family member is religious, and may not find all I say about God appropriate, but most of what I know about God came from life, something far more believable than man or a book written by man.
As far as man changing and creating Gods along the way to present, this does not surprise me one bit. No man on earth will ever know God face to face on earth nor will man kind ever have one hundred percent proof of God, for that very good reason I spoke of before. “If we could see heaven we’d all want to go, leaving God nothing to judge our soul.” I believe God sends us to earth so he can judge us good or bad. If man had 100 percent proof of God, Heaven would be full of two faced souls, being good for eighty years on earth to spend eternity in Heaven. I know, most religions say God knows all and who we are, but if this were true, why would there be an earth? Why wouldn’t God just send the good to Heaven and the bad to hell? God’s favorite angel was Satin according to the old testament, if God truly knows all, why didn’t he know Satin was not an angel at all? Yes God has taken on many faces, but to date, no man has ever seen the real face of God on earth. God sent his son, God most likely sent down UFO’s, why, to direct man without man knowing for sure God is real. Jesus was the son of God and a man; he was never just God in life. Yes Jesus is in the history books as well as a bible, so when it comes to explaining God, I start with the facts, Jesus.
The Jewish know Jesus was on earth, as a famous Jew, not as any kind of a God. Yet others worship and even wrote another bible about Jesus, eighty years after his death, the New Testament. People worship the birth of Jesus, yet most then didn’t know if he was a God for sure, he proved his status as an adult. So I have to wonder, who was Jesus, before he became God in the eyes of many. Sure he is the son of God, but aren’t we all, what made Jesus any different than the rest of us? Why did God send him in the first place, wasn’t the Old Testament good enough?
The biggest difference between Jesus and the rest of us is, Jesus had no id. Even when the Jewish tied him to the cross, he had no evil words for the ones impaling him. As a man, he did only good on earth. It is safe to say, Jesus was pure superego. We the rest of us, all have an id. Jesus was the only man ever to have no id to date.
So why did the Jews want Jesus dead? Well, according to the Old Testament, God had an id. God did things that if we as man did, first we would be in prison then hell. Firebombing two cities, this doesn’t sound like God; it sounds more like us in World War II, when we firebombed Japan. What about when God black mailed a disciple into killing his first born, had we done this, we would not be considered good. Jesus went against what the first bible said, Jesus said the way to Heaven was through him. If so, then the way to Heaven would to be good, like Jesus. Good or bad, that is the choices we have now, and the choices man has always had. Once we are born again, we will become our superego in a good place, or just our id in a bad place. All religions believe in the same basic belief of good and bad, it is who we are too, it is the meaning of life on earth.
Conclusion
Do I think you are going to hell? Do I think a scientist who does not believe in God but is a good person is going to hell, one who gives to good charities and is a great father, do I feel he will go to hell for his life on earth, of course not. But according to most religions, unless you have at least faith, hell is where you are headed. But this is not what Jesus said, the only living proof ever of God. It took man eighty years to write the bible after Jesus died, but his message was so simple, a child could remember it; good or evil, God or devil, see what one letter can do? Jesus didn’t need a bible, religion did. Does man need religion and faith to get to heaven, not if you are a good soul you don’t. No, my religious family member does not believe this, you don’t have to either, where you go is up to you and God, no other man will decide what only God and you can.
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TRYING TO SOLVE THE MYSTERIES of CREATION ---
Who or What is the Creator? A force of Nature? a Personhood of the Spirit? An Eternal Being? A Fantasy? or A True God?
Did God create the Big Bang? Or did the Big Bang create God? --- I think there may have always been SOME PRIME FORCE (which is God) that is Eternal and Infinite. Something NONE of us could ever comprehend, explain, or rationalize. Our human minds are just not smart enough.
This Force (or Being) expresses the Univeral Imperative, to eternally evolve, creating more complex mechanisms, and organisms. But in order for them to survive, there must be Order in the Universe. Something that creates stability and harmony. Something that may be called GOOD.
Through increments of Time (and Eternity) these mechanisms and organisms expand exponentially, to fill the Universe and Cosmos, & all there is in the known dimensions --- even filling all the dimensions of Time and Space --- Something that may be called HEAVEN.
Since all things tend toward greater complexity, an evolution of Time and Space would lead to an Expanding Universe, which may have to come into being, due to a Big Bang. Or some gigantic cataclysm in Space. Meantime, evolution in Intellectualism would indicate that somewhere in the Cosmos, would have to exist a VAST MIND --- or at least a Creative Force. And that may be called GOD.
All things in this Universe seem to be organized into Positive and Negative / Light and Darkness / Night and Day / Good and Evil / Life and Death./ Heaven and Hell / God and the Devil. /// This makes it easier for our minds to polarize information & process it into useful data.
As all things progressed into more complex creatures, one day Man suddenly appeared. A creature occurred that could actually THINK, & begin to comprehend the World around him. And to question his true ORIGINS. And also to wonder about the Reason for his Existence. Man was the first creature who realized that all creatures will DIE, & began to think about Meaningful Interactions between ourselves and our Creator. And Man was afraid of Death, as an eternal darkness, lifelessness, & decay. There MUST be a way to "save ourselves" from this horrible inevitable outcome.
Primitive Knowledge and Practical Experience led into Science / and Sign Language led into Literacy / & soon Man's Horizon had become much Wider, reaching under the oceans, across all continents, and even up into the stars. Always searching for the Meaning of Life. Searching for the One Divine Creator, and with a Sense of Wonder, Trying to Find the Path into Eternity.
As one contemplates the Creator, it seems that He must have Always Existed, the One Eternal Being, both Infinite & Divine. The Whole Universe was a Product of His Imagination. And he MUST BE Intellectual, Beautiful, Rational, Ethical, Compassionate, Inspired, Harmonious -- Because -- How could he have created US, unless he already had all these things existing inside of Himself? The Search has been Infinite, often Leading Us deeper into a Hall of Mirrors, where Up is Down -- or Right is Wrong -- but there is Always a Way to Final Forgiveness.
And then the Eternal Mystery: What if, after all, God is only a Projection of our own Mind? A Product of our own Imagination? A Being we have simply Dreamed into Existence? WHAT IF on the Judgment Day, the Person that will JUDGE US, is the ONE WHO KNOWS YOU THE VERY BEST? You walk into the Judge's Chamber to FACE THE MUSIC --- and after stating your case -- SEE that you are looking into a MIRROR.
On Judgment Day --- Your Soul will be JUDGED ----- BY the one person you cannot Deceive --- YOURSELF.
---- Written on August 9, 2012 ----- by Eternal Flame
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I try to keep an OPEN MIND on the subject of Religion, since in some ways, we all depend on one Faith or other to give us Comfort and Security. Whatever has given us the Divine Spark of Creativity, Morality, and Inspiration -- whatever we consider GOOD in Humanity, often results from some religious upbringing. I think that the Reason the USA has been such a Force for Good in the world, (in the past) is that we were ALL operating on the basis of Conscience, driven by religious faith. People are best motivated by Expectation of Rewards OR Fear of Punishment. You will be given a Ticket to Heaven if you are GOOD -- OR -- You will be sent directly to HELL if you are BAD. That was quite effective for many centuries.
The world has changed a lot in just the last 70 years, especially after so many Wars, and the introduction of easily accessible Dope. Those 2 things have led to a gradual decline in morality and less participation in religion. (There are probably a hundred other factors, but these are definitely a few of them). People just don't seem to care about their moral character anymore, or their perceived spirituality or genuine goodness. Instead, it seems to be popular for people to tattoo & mutilate their bodies with nose rings & tribal symbols, which are getting more prevalent all the time. Just 20 years ago, you would NEVER see any of that. And our culture had not drifted into violence at sports events, shootings at schools, and the need for youth to demonstrate the maximum in anti-social & uncivilized behavior. It is like they are living solely for Shock Value, with no thought to the afterlife.
Maybe THAT is the Clue why Society in general seems to be going to HELL. Is it the lack of any true value system, or Spirituality in their lives today? Have they given up on this world with our ecosystem being ruined by pollution, our govts always waging War, our economies failing, while politicians exhibit only greed & corruption?
Our Youth are Grief Stricken by the way things are all out of control, their world is in chaos, they might be sent off to die in a War that is nothing but a Money Maker for certain classes in our society. Meanwhile America seems to be falling apart, with homeless & jobless people increasing daily, & crime to be inevitably on the rise.
They may or may not see the Future as a Police State, where fascist troops have the power to detain you, pepper spray you, arrest you, or put you into prison for a peaceful legitimate protest -- trying to express your objection to the corruption inside a corporate or governmental agency. (Your rights all taken away).
It may not be "popular" in the predominant Culture these days, to be a lawful person who does not smoke, drink, or do dope -- who has a strict conscience on what is right or wrong. And who believes in freedom, not conformity -- but all within some sort of Code of Honor. The Best and the Brightest have always lived by such a Code.
What part does Religion play in all this? In History, religion played the biggest and most important part. It was a controlling influence on everybody's lives. It was even a big part of forming governments, with Fairness laws, & ideals of Equality -- with Liberty & Justice for All. -- (Working for the Good of Mankind).
RELIGION IN AMERICA TODAY: The Adult population of the USA are -- 83% in some active form of Religion -- and 16% prefer NO RELIGION.
The Majority 78% are Christians / 2% are Jewish / and 3% "others" -- including Buddhism & Muslim / with only 16% claiming NO RELIGION.
According to this, we should be a very moral country, disavowing materialism, War, and Greed, ---- & working for PEACE, LOVE & GOODWILL.
But many of today's so-called "Christian" religions are hypocritical congregations of self-seeking people, who proclaim the gospel of prosperity, which leads them to have disdain for anyone who is poor, sick, elderly, or not living the Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous. Think about the Christian Right --- right wing Republican Party -- who are the Prime Example of False Religion, professing to follow Christ, but only interested in their own Wealth and Power, -- while trying to destroy the Rights & Freedom of the Middle Class. / In Fact, they are the epitome of the ANTI-CHRIST. (The opposite of Christ). They act upon principles that are totally opposite of Christ's teachings. And by their gain in influence in American Politics, they have turned this nation into a Den of Thieves, where the Wealthy prey upon & steal from the Poor. Shameless hypocrites, the GOP right wing have ruined the reputation and Legacy of America, in the eyes of the whole World, --but even in the eyes of God. For of all nations, this one was formed with Biblical Ideals. EXAMPLE: in our U.S. Declaration of Independence, it clearly says, "We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all men are created Equal, that they are endowed by THEIR CREATOR with certain inalienable rights, that among these are LIFE, LIBERTY, and the Pursuit of Happiness." / And it says on ALL U.S. Currency (every coin and every bill) -- IN GOD WE TRUST.
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