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Other Party
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Who are we to judge anyone? The Bible says that teachers will be judged more harshly, so let God do his job and let Joel Osteen do what he feels God wants him to do. He says at the end of every sermon to read The Word, to pray, to get involved with a Bible Believing Church. He is a motivational speaker. He has led a multitude of people to Jesus Christ. Do we have to agree with every word Olsteen says, or even like his way of preaching? He says that we have to accept Jesus as our Lord and Saviour, believe that he died and rose from the dead on the 3rd day so that we might live. That pretty much sums it up. He has mentioned Baptism and how the Thief on the Cross didn't get Baptized but Jesus took him anyway.
He has a big building that is full of people, I'm sure they give. His sermon is broadcast to hundreds of millions of people in several Countries. If 1/2 of the people that heard a sermon sent him $1, he made millions,, even if they sent 50 cents he would make millions. He doesn't ask for money. Just like all TV preachers he sells videos and CDs. He will send them out for less money if people ask. Some of his DVDs are for any donation. It costs a lot of money to run that building and buy all that TV time. That's all free to us. He has a Web Site that you can listen to past sermons for free. Nobody is twisting any arms to buy his DVDs, so obviously not everyone believes like you.
What I can't understand is why some people think that he is cheating someone or something. To call him scum is your right, just as it is my right to disagree. I wonder why if this is really a Democratic Forum why they would delete a post opposing your view? How many people did the average believer, or even average Preacher bring to know Jesus Christ this week compared to Joel Osteen? Someone that does not know Christ may be motivated by Olsteen to read a Bible and learn. People that don't know the Lord Jesus and have never read out of the Bible can't start out knowing what you know, they have to be fed milk. We are not here to judge others, but to spread the Word. Seems like Osteen is doing a good job of that.
Please don't walk up to a non-believer and tell them they are damned. They won't hear you, they have to read it for themselves and learn on their own. Believing comes from reading the Word of God. I'm just saying they might need a push to read the Bible, which Olsteen does, he gives people a push to learn about God.
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Other Party
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Mr. Barry,
Big claims require Big evidence......surely when someone tells you that wine from water, raising from the dead, people flying around with wings, gambling devils (job).......surely you asked for some verification???? And on top of that you want me to donate because the "spooky guy in the sky" wants to have a showing of presence here on earth that he needs Osteen to drive Mercedes and wear custom made suits.........People don't know the lord because he was "invented".
Osteen preys on individuals who have fears in life, ......like maybe dying, or coping with death. Any person who claims to have been divinely inspired by having a personal conversation with god needs mental evaluation. Or. could it be he's special, god phoned him and not us...........
Lets see,,,,OSTEEN OR EINSTEIN?????
Osteen- con man, predator, and a phony
Einstein- E=MC squared
No other human being in our history has made a more significant impact than Albert Einstein. His contribution will forever live on..... Five minutes after Osteen dies there will be 5 more con-men to replace him. He dies at that moment.
I gave Osteen credit. Robbing people via their own consent is brilliant. Takes a special skill to do that. He probably started out with used cars
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pgr:
I agree with you that an awful lot of people get taken in by religious nonsense.
You're already aware of the fact that 20% of our population believes the moon landing was faked, 30% believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible (in spit of its obvious contradictions) and more than 40% believe that the world is only 10,000 years old.
Does heaven exist?
In view of the fact that I've read books written by people who have been there (and come back) I'd say that it did:
http://tohell-andback.blogspot.com/2012/06/twilight-zone.html
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Barrry Wrote: Believing comes from reading the Word of God. .
It depends on what you think the "Word" of God is.
Christian Dominionists who take the Bible literally call it -- every word -- as "The Word of God." But texts written by human beings are not the real Word of God. They are the words of people who were only human.
The real Word of God is that which was in the beginning, which was with God and was God, and it is made flesh in human beings. As Jesus said, like the Spirit of truth, it is within us.
The real Word of God, as Jewish Tanakh scholars know, is that which cannot be written or spoken.
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Other Party
Llos Angeles, CA
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Dutch Wrote: The funny part of it, that all this B.S. is written by people not by Martians or deaf mute Canadians (sorry Caucasians) or any non-aerodynamic angels, ghosts, or written after a wet dream. They just found a 39,000 year old wooley mammoth in Siberia; kind of weird when the "holy one's" tell us the world is only 8000 years old. Must have come from Mars and dropped here. I'm not sure how to respond to that. But in many of my posts on other threads I have said many times that even though scriptures contain much human opinion and judgment, and well as many contradictions and errors, they nevertheless contain much universal truth.
There is a very good reason why there is a Universal Divine Imperative that is common to all religions.
As it says at http://cjcmp.org, all great spiritual teachers taught it, in one way or another. Thus Jews are supposed to be taught that we should not do to others what is hurtful to our self. Christians are supposed to be taught to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. And Muslims are supposed to be taught that no one is a true believer in Allah until he desires for all others what he desires for himself.
Similarly, Buddhists are taught that we should treat others as we treat our self. Hindus are taught that we should not do unto others anything that, which if it were done to us, would cause us pain. The Taoists are taught that we should regard our neighbor's gain as our own gain, and our neighbor's loss as our own loss. The Bahai Faith teachers taught that we should ascribe not to any soul that which we would not have ascribed to our self. Followers of Confucius are taught that we should never impose on others what we would not choose for our self. Sikhism teaches that you should be a stranger to no one, that no one should be a stranger to you, and you should be a friend to all. Jainism teaches that we should treat all creatures as we want to be treated. Native Americans believe that we are as much alive as we keep the earth alive. Unitarians affirm and promote respect for the independent web of all existence of which we are a part.
The founders of all other religions have taught the same thing in different ways, because the most essential, eternal truth is the same in any language, and at any time. And the founders of all true religions have also said that the search for the Divine and Holy should be not in the world, but within, and when found it brings forth love that is universal and knows no bounds.
These teachings and spiritual values are at the very core of all genuine religions, and they are all about unconditional love, peace, freedom, honesty, humility, tolerance, forgiveness, compassion, charity, and pacifism.
Unfortunately, some of the worst atrocities in the world are being committed by people who ignore those values and yet claim they are religious. That is why a reminder is needed.
(Unquote)
I don't blame Atheists and Agnostics for criticizing and making fun of organized "religious" bigots and hypocrites who claim their religious beliefs shall rule the world. But we should understand that they are in the minority, and the vast majority of religious people are humble, meek, and peaceful, and they are respectful of people of other faith traditions as long as they too are humble, meek, and peaceful.
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But Guy, isn't what you're saying about all religions simply just a better, safer and more productive way for humans to get along and survive? Common sense, for example, tells us not stealing, killing, etc, etc (10 Commandments) will cause us less stress, make us happier, safer more productive. Religion has nothing to do with it - act poorly and others treat you poorly, act well and people tend to treat you well.
It seems to me that religion (as an institution) has stolen common sense and corrupted it for their own purposes.
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pgr,
That's certainly part of it, because part of the purpose of the message is to remind humanity of the true purpose of their religions. And you are quite right because it is common sense to acknowledge that there are karmic consequences to our words and actions.
You are also right because in that respect, religion doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it. Even the secular U.S. Constitution and Supreme Law of the Land are based on the same common sense, with quite a bit of innovative wisdom and evolutionary advancements added to it.
However, the message is comprehensive, covering most of the most crucial issues of the day regarding both religion and government. And it is particularly designed to show that the view of Washington, Franklin, Paine, Adams, Madison and other Founders, and especially Jefferson, is the view that Americans should now recognize and acknowledge -- because it is opposite of that of "Christian" Dominionists who are fighting to rule.
The view I'm talking about was expressed very well by Jefferson in his Autobiography. He wrote: “ Where the preamble declares that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting ‘Jesus Christ,’ so that it would read ‘A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion," the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Muslim, the Hindu and Infidel of every denomination.”
It was rejected because Jefferson and many other Founders knew that Jesus was not the author of Christianity. The first and main author was Paul, and the texts of a select few others also made it into the official church canon. In fact, Jefferson wrote: " Among the sayings and discourses imputed to Jesus by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being." And he wrote many other things expressing the same opinion.
If you read Quotes of the Founders Regarding Religion, you can readily see that even though most of them believed in God, whether they were Christians or Deists or Freemasons, they were very much against Theocracy, and very much against theocratic imposition of religious dogma and beliefs into the operations of government. They were adamant about it because they were well aware of the history of Christianity, and the history of Theocrats who played god.
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Guy Dwyer Wrote: pgr,
That's certainly part of it, because part of the purpose of the message is to remind humanity of the true purpose of their religions. And you are quite right because it is common sense to acknowledge that there are karmic consequences to our words and actions.
You are also right because in that respect, religion doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it. Even the secular U.S. Constitution and Supreme Law of the Land are based on the same common sense, with quite a bit of innovative wisdom and evolutionary advancements added to it.
However, the message is comprehensive, covering most of the most crucial issues of the day regarding both religion and government. And it is particularly designed to show that the view of Washington, Franklin, Paine, Adams, Madison and other Founders, and especially Jefferson, is the view that Americans should now recognize and acknowledge -- because it is opposite of that of "Christian" Dominionists who are fighting to rule.
The view I'm talking about was expressed very well by Jefferson in his Autobiography. He wrote: “Where the preamble declares that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting ‘Jesus Christ,’ so that it would read ‘A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion," the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Muslim, the Hindu and Infidel of every denomination.”
It was rejected because Jefferson and many other Founders knew that Jesus was not the author of Christianity. The first and main author was Paul, and the texts of a select few others also made it into the official church canon. In fact, Jefferson wrote: "Among the sayings and discourses imputed to Jesus by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being." And he wrote many other things expressing the same opinion.
If you read Quotes of the Founders Regarding Religion, you can readily see that even though most of them believed in God, whether they were Christians or Deists or Freemasons, they were very much against Theocracy, and very much against theocratic imposition of religious dogma and beliefs into the operations of government. They were adamant about it because they were well aware of the history of Christianity, and the history of Theocrats who played god. Guy, by writing what you wrote then you have to agree that any and all the "writing" mentioned by you was written by "humans"; also bibles, Korans, etc. so the contents of what is in those writings all of it took place on earth (either in imagination or visionary); we as people regardless of space exploration are bound to earth and keep telling each other what to do, either by religion or otherwise. Anyone can write whatever they want to write; therefore not any writing can be considered holy (no god's wrote anything themselves), may be interesting or educational etc." Believing" is as the word already says; fooling yourself about the thruth.
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