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guns

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  • Democrat
    Pennsylvania
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    GUNS    in light of the horrible masacare in Colorado, when are our representatives going to get off their collective asses and pass some meaningful legislation banning the sale of high powered assualt weapons ? Do we have to kill 12 more or 30 more or 100 more or a thousand more before our IRA  financed legislators make a move ?
  • Independent
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    And if there were "meaningful legislation banning the sale of high powered "assualt" weapons" what would that do?

    There are how many tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands, or millions of them already out there?

    A ban on "the sale" would only drive the price up.

    New ones would still be smuggled in.   Lots and lots of them.

    Just like illegal drugs are illegal but can be purchased just about anywhere in this country, the same would be true of "assualt" weapons.

    I agree that no one NEEDS an "assault" weapon, but it's far too late to stop them.

    And when a guy goes to a movie to murder complete strangers, he's probably not going to worry about the legality of his guns.

    "Assualt" weapons don't kill people, people with "assualt" weapons kill people.

    Tim McVeigh killed a whole bunch of complete strangers and he did not fire a shot.
  • Republican
    Norristown, PA
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    After this latest tragedy in Colorado I don't understand why semi-automatic guns (assault weapons) are availble to the general public in gun shops and gun conventions. Why would a deer hunter need a semi automatic weapon. Is it to prevent the deer from shooting back?  This is the time to discuss gun control legislation. This horrific tragedy illustrates the cost of not addressing this problem. It is too late to prevent the Colorado shootings but it is not too late to prevent this from happening again.
  • Bardstown, KY
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    Colorado Theater Shooting:
    As usual, in the time of crisis or disaster, a lot of individuals have the knee jerk reaction and start with the gun control laws. The reality of it all, is that the criminals will always have the means to have the most up to date armament. As a country, we should be standing together and working toward a better resolve to handle individuals such as James Holmes. For some reason, the criminals that committ crimes such as this, still have rights that protect them. I'm my opinion, this is we're the system has failed.
    Until we stop providing lawyers to represent individuals such as this, this problem will always continue. If the lawmakers and all law biding citizens want to see justice served, we have to stop housing, insuring, pampering, educating,feeding and paying to keep a murderer alive for the next 50 to 60 years. Its always been said that it is cheaper to imprison individuals for life sentences, I disagree.  If the over complicating of everything can be simplified, a rope and gallows the most inexpensive tool to rid our society of individuals such as James Holmes.

  • Independent
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    Dew is right:

    "criminals will always have the means to have the most up to date armament."  And they do not worry about gun control laws.  They will get the weapons by legal or by other means.

    How many assault weapons, LEGAL assault weapons are there in the USA tonight?  How many illegal?  A bunch, and a bunch.

    Far too many for gun control laws to eliminate.

    Every time you go out in public you are at risk.  Guns, knives, bombs, biological weapons, vehicles, crazies and terrorists...there's lots of ways they can kill us.  Fertilizer bomb in the back of a rented truck.  LOTS of ways.

    You can lock yourself in your home forever or live your life.

    Life is a risk.  Just be aware.

    Risk cannot be eliminated, but it can be reduced.

    I feel sorry for Colorado...Columbine and now this.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    The common excuse for the gun lobby is always "guns don't kill people, people do." And they'll cite anecdotes such as the Oklahoma City bombing that if it's not guns, it will be bombs...or something else. Or they come up with something like "there are so many guns already on the streets, that restricting gun purchases won't deter criminals and will only hurt the law abiding gun owners."

    All of them side step the question: Why does any American need to own assault rifles? Or why do they need magazines that hold 30 plus bullets for their glock pistols?  I used to be a hunter in my youth in Montana, and my Dad taught me that any more than one shot was a waste...and certainly riddling an animal body with bullet holes was frowned upon.  It spoiled meat, and we ate every bit of the game that we successfully hunted.

    Proposed bans on high powered assault rifles that will rip any animal to shreds or other such unnecessary weapons are always met with absolute resistance by the NRA.  And the NRA will target any politician, Democrat or Republican, that dares even mention restrictions on the sale of the types of firearms, or background checks on the people wanting to buy the weapons.

    The reason that they  oppose any and all restrictions on gun and ammunition purchase is simple.  MONEY.  The NRA is controlled by the gun manufacturers and they all lobby Congress...if they can't buy them, they buy their opponents.  One way or another, anyone that wants to talk common sense gun laws is weeded out of Congress. 

    I have posted this link before: BLOOD FOR MONEY, NRA, ALEC, & ‘SHOOT FIRST’ LAWS

    It shows the flow of lobby money and influence on our legislative process.

    Then there's this link by the Violence Policy Center: Blood for Money

    Get the idea?  The gun manufacturers don't give a damn how many people are killed by gun violence in America.  In their view, the more the better because it prompts other Americans to buy guns to protect themselves.  Just read the commentaries at the bottom of the many article about the Colorado shooting, and many of them are promoting the theme that if everyone in the theater was "packing heat," they could have killed the gunman first...like the shootout at OK Corral.

    More guns...more money...more profit.

    I believe in the 2nd Amendment gun rights as much as any sportsman.  But I don't believe any American should have a need or a right to own an assault rifle or a magazine clip that holds 30 plus bullets. And every American should have to undergo a background check before buying any gun.

    That's what I call common sense gun legislation.  The NRA is not an advocate of common sense.



  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    A few years ago, I was helping a friend start up a new business, which entailed us going into the shops of certain types of entrepreneurs. We went into many different gun shops and also coin shops. We had to go back to each shop several times a month. Plus go to gun shows, coin shows, etc.

    Every time we went into those gun shops and coin shops, the radio was turned on, and the show was always Rush Limbaugh. Also in those shops was a big array of right wing literature, bumper stickers -- and other types of propaganda. It was DEFINITELY hostile to liberals in there.

    The paranoid right is always using FEAR that "somebody is going to come take their guns away." This keeps the already over-loaded gun nuts trying to maintain a bigger stockpile of weapons, in case the wholesale confiscation of their precious supply ever does occur. And the Fear factor is continuous, since it all serves to promote gun sales, which is fueled by  THE PROFIT MOTIVE.  (I've noticed -- You never hear of a gun shop owner living on Food Stamps).

    All the propaganda in those shops is rabid "right wing," usually saying flagrant LIES about Democrats & liberals. There is a lot of political stuff sold also, which only favors the GOP & Republican & Tea Party agendas.  They seem to be arming themselves well for a great rebellion against all "lefties." 

    Every year, the GOP political rhetoric gets amped up higher & higher, to antagonize the "right wing" into action. It is deliberate, as some political forces would have a great advantage if the inner struggle was made more obvious. If there was open opposition in the streets. You can sense that some of them can't wait for the inevitable takeover to begin, where the forces of Fascism could overwhelm America with blunt power, (use of arms) and silence us once and for all.

    Meanwhile, (ho hum) we just have to put up with a "cop wanna-be'" shooting up a theater in Colorado. The guy certainly does not fit the usual "profile" of a right wing serial killer. But either he had a whole bunch of weird room-mates who booby-trapped his apt while he was gone, or he was living some peculiar kind of double life.
  • Independent
    Plymouth, WI
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    Guns don’t kill, morons do.  No matter what laws would have been in place to ban certain guns like the hunting rifles you say should be band, a moron like this would have gotten his guns, one way or another.  Drugs are illegal in America; do you think that keeps drugs out of our children’s hands?  Sorry, laws can’t stop stupid. 

     If you want to see a deterrent from this happening again, maybe a quick firing squad for this moron would do the trick, with the family members of the dead behind the asult rifles, now that would be justice too.
     

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    If our existing laws were ENFORCED better, we could significantly cut down on certain types of SALES, making it more difficult to buy guns in the first place.  Many new laws should be enacted regarding the Gun Shops and Gun Shows, for instance. Very high penalties on gun shops selling to those without any credentials will help to stop some of this problem.
    We can never stop gun sales altogether, any more than we can totally stop drug sales, but we can CUT IT DOWN to a much smaller number. And any significant decrease in sales will lead to easier law enforcement, which will (in turn) reduce all the crimes related to gun use. Once people finally get the idea they actually have to follow the rules, or go to prison, then the laws will have some meaning (& some teeth) -- so public safety will be more easily protected.


  • Independent
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    The city of Chicago has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation.

    The city of Chicago has some of the worst gun violence in the nation.

    Those tough gun laws have done little, if anything to stop the gun violence in Chicago.

    I agree with what most of you have said.  No one NEEDS an assault weapon.

    Outlaw them.  Make it harder to obtain them.

    Do you really think the criminals will care?  Really?

    "Guns don't kill, morons do".  I like that one, united.  And, it's true.

    And there's lots of morons, criminals, crazies, idiots out there.
  • Democrat
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    fenway says, "Assualt" weapons don't kill people, people with "assualt" weapons kill people "

    Then why were you so made when firearms were provided to gun smugglers?
  • Independent
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    I wasn't "made".

    I was unhappy that the gubmint allowed guns to go to Mexico without tracking them and then then trying to cover up all the evidence.  As bad as this incident is, the cover up is worse than the crime...as usual.

    I would imagine that the family of the Border Patrol agent who was murdered by one of those weapons would be "made" that the gubmint did this.  Especially when they try to cover it up.

    Do you think that some more guns control laws will stop the gun violence in Chicago?  Ya think?

    Sure, let's pass some more laws and maybe that will solve ALL our problems.
  • Independent
    Plymouth, WI
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    The sad truth to the matter, if guns wouldn’t have been available, this crazy would have used something else to kill, something maybe much worse and more deadly than guns, like the fire bombs left in the killer’s apartment.  If we really want to try and stop this crap, then it is time we double our police force!  I am amazed by how nobody could stop this idiot.  No man in the street with a gun stopped him.  The only one who should of stopped him was a cop, one we didn’t have their thanks to budget cuts to public workers, throughout America.  Yes we need to enforce the gun laws we have, but how can we, with more criminals every day and less police every day too,  thanks to no tax dollars left, after paying for our police actions overseas.   

  • Democrat
    Largo, FL
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    Here's what I think we should do: I've heard in the Media over & over again that the NRA is the only "Big Money" gun lobbyist organization that now out-spends every other organization by a 10 to 1 margin. The NRA speaks for the gun Manufacturers who have a vested interest in doing one thing: selling more guns with their propaganda & scare tatics which allows them to actively recruit new members & maintain their membership $$$. I wish that I could start what I am about to propose but I know nothing about guns & don't have the connections or knowledge to set it up, but I will be glad to actively support & participate in it if someone out there will do it. We set up a different Organization that provides Members with whatever things that the NRA Members get and call it something VERY Patriotic like the "American Patriot's Gun Club"  or "The American Weapons Assocation" or something like that complete with the Red, White & Blue, American Flag, figure dressed in a Patriot's uniform with a classic Civil War gun logo, etc. This way the "gun lovers" & NRA members feel more Patriotic by joining & paying dues to our Gun Organization than the NRA.  The name  needs to include the Patriot theme so people do associate it with the Federal Patriot Act which was supposedly enacted to protect us from Terrorists both foreign & domestic, giving responsible gun owners a feeling of doing their Patriotic duty to God & Country by joining our Gun Organization, more so than the NRA. We give our Military Veterans the jobs in this organization since they are our most patriotic, highly respected & highly trained citizens with regard to weapons which puts our Veterans back to work & gives the members a good feeling that they are supporting our country. From what I've seen most of the people who purchase assault weapons are Military or Police "wanna bes" anyway or they are mentally ill in a very destructive way. But with regard to Our Organization, in the most unlikely event that our Government should need to call on more "guns" to defend our Country on domestic soil, we have a reserve pool at hand that will take their orders from our United States Commander & Chief  in a military organized way. Many members of the NRA are in fact, Veterans so this would also provide them with a forum to connect with each other, and feel that they are still supporting their Country. We could offer other adjunct links to services & organizations that support our Veterans like the American Legion or Veteran's Affairs, their Government Representatives, etc. and they in turn can connect with "Civilian" gun enthusiasts who can also gleen alot from interacting with the Veterans. We can sponsor our own Gun Shows where Members can buy & sell their weapons with other Members ONLY. This makes people feel like they belong to a more prestigious, more exclusive & more responsible Gun Organization than the NRA . And on a practical note,  it builds  a data base & tracking system on the guns as they move from one owner to another.  For displaying the newest guns available from the Manufacturer, we get our Organization to purchase them from the Manufacturer then show them at OUR shows, adding them to Our tracking system at that time. We allow active Members to bring a limited number of guests with them, but the guests must first sign up with OUR Organization before we let them buy or sell anything and this in turn, builds our Membership so we can track even more guns. We also use a Marketing strategy of saying "you already paid the Manufacturer for your gun and by continuing to pay dues to the NRA, you are continuing to pay the Manufacturer for your gun" as opposed to joining OUR Organization that says "Now that you have purchased your gun from the Manufacturer/NRA, Join an Organization that provides you even more than the NRA Membership benefits, and by supporting OUR Organization, you are also supporting our Military, our Veterans and your Country."  Former Astronaut Mark Kelly and husband of Congress Woman Gabby Giffords who was also a victim of this senseless gun violence, is available for Public Speaking engagements and I'm sure that he would be happy to participate in this. Afterall, he has a personal story to tell and who wouldn't want to join an Organization that has a Space Astronaut in it, you can't get anymore Patriotic than that! Maybe Congress Woman Giffords herself would want to get involved. Since he is no longer an Astronaut and she is no longer able to serve in Congress, maybe we can give them both a paycheck in Our Organization, afterall, they both deserve it after the service they both have already provided to our Country. There are many wounded Veterans that have stories to tell us all, especially to our young people and we can have them teach Firearms Safety Classes, speak to teenagers about gun violence, speak to Civic groups, like school children, the Boy Scouts, etc. We can sponsor events & give out bumper stickers, etc. to get the Name Recognition out there for Our "Brand" We can have Retail Gun Sellers put OUR pamphlet in every bag along with the receipt, we can do a mail campaign, advertise in Magazines using the faces & voices of our Astronauts, our War Heros, and the Victims of Gun Violence, we all know there is no shortage of them out here. We can connect with the Court System and make it a condition of  Parole and/or Probation to make it MANDATORY that people that are arrested for Gun related crimes attend meetings to listen to these stories like they do now with the Victims of Drunk Driving,  We can set up meetings to elicit funding and partnership with other established Organizations like AARP, other Gun Clubs, etc. famous people can open doors and get $$$ Contributions, there's no doubt about that!  We can have floats in Parades with our Members riding on them. There are many ideas, services, jobs, etc. that can be integrated in the future, but at least this can be a start. The only way to defeat the NRA's stranglehold on our Government that they have now is to take away their $$$ power and build a competitive $$$ Gun Organization so there can be an actual dialogue and compromise on Gun Legislation in this country that should at the very least, establish a National Gun Database for Law Enforcement and inform Homeland Security when a private Citizen purchases large amounts of guns, ammunition or military gear, whether it's from a store or online, and re-instate the Law that was passed under President Clinton and allowed to expire under President George W. Bush that bans Assault weapons & high volume ammunition cartridges. You are right when you say that there is little we can do about the illegal weapons or the assault weapons already out there in the immediate future, but if we start this now, over time the illegal sales will diminish, Law Enforcement will have confiscated more illegal weapons, we will be able to Criminally prosecute the offenders, and we will have established a continuing and growing National and International Database to more effectively track weapons that are Manufactured in the USA that is merged with our Law Enforcement & Homeland Security Databases. To sit around and continue to watch these senseless mass killings and say we can do nothing about it is UN-AMERICAN....It is never too late or to hard for a true AMERICAN because there is nothing that "WE THE PEOPLE" cannot do and we won't stop trying until "WE THE PEOPLE" UNITE and get it done!  So PLEASE consider this idea, pass it on, bring in the Jim Brady's, the Mayor Bloomberg's, the Mark Kelly's, the Gabby Gifford's, our Veterans, our Survivors and everyone else with the knowledge & high powered connections that is in a position to get this fight with the NRA started! Afterall, this is literally a matter of life or death for everyone in this Country.    
  • Independent
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    united,

    We can't have a cop watching every citizen every moment of every day.  A million more cops, ten million more cops could not do it.

    That would be more like North Korea than America.

    From what I understand the police were on the scene very quickly, but a crazy person is always going to find a way to do this kind of act if it is what he truly wants to do.

    By gun, or by other means, they will always find a way.

    This crazy person had built a bunch of bombs in his apartment so if he could not have gotten guns, he could have used bombs.

    His bombs may have killed even more people.

    We live in a free country.  (OK, semi-free)

    There will always be crazy people who do these kinds of things.

    It's part of the price of freedom.