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Barry "Mr. Conservative" Goldwater talking about the religious right.

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  • Guy Dwyer
    2012-06-25 05:19:50 PM
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    Fenway,

    I understand why you feel that way about Goldwater and Reagan, and I too believe that most Americans today regard Reagan as their "conservative hero." But that doesn't alter the facts I've pointed out.
    \
    Also, one does not have to be "anti-religious" to be critical of  the "religious right.''" 

    I am certainly not anti-religion. In fact, the message I promote advocates Interfaith dialogue and cooperation, and explains the true purpose of religion, while also delivering a powerful critique of the "religious right."

    The "religious right" tries to dismiss criticism by resorting to labeling their critics as "anti-religion," and even as "godless." But it is the "religious right" that damages and gives religion a bad name, and it is the leaders of the "religious right" who are godless.

  • fenway
    2012-06-25 05:52:21 PM
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    "one does not have to be "anti-regilious" to be critical of the "religious right."

    Very true. 

    Also, one does not have to be of the "religious right" to be critical of the "anti-religious."

    And there are plenty of extremist "religious right" just as there are plenty of extremist "anti-religious".

    Extremists can give ANYTHING or ANYONE a bad name.
  • Veronica
    2012-06-26 09:42:06 AM
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    Most people who know U.S. History will remember the Prez campaign of 1964 -- right after JFK was murdered. Goldwater was GOP candidate VS incumbent LBJ Johnson.

    This is one of the most significant moments in US history, not any old presidential year, which may be long forgotten. If anyone does not even TRY to remember the murder of
    JFK, the turmoil it caused, or the awful downward spiral of US government since then,
    they must have slept thru any History classes they had, or had lousy teachers.

    PERSPECTIVE: JFK was dead only ONE YEAR, people were still grieving over the loss of such a young man, dead at age 46, & losing his beautiful wife Jackie as First Lady, & the tragic loss of their father to  toddlers John-John & Caroline.

    Lyndon Johnson was trying to live out the legacy of JFK, by starting the anti-Poverty program, working for civil rights, & LBJ stated that he was for PEACE. (Kennedy was actively anti-War thru-out his life, after he had served as a Lt JG Navy officer in WW2).  He had been severely wounded on PT-109. Wore a back brace the rest of his life.

    As Barry Goldwater was running for Prez, with Curtis LeMay as his running mate, he
    had advocated "using nuclear bombs" against our enemies (predominately Russia) &
    this set off a firestorm of fear and anger. Americans in those days had regular bomb drills, hiding in their basements, or underground shelters (in the schoolhouses) & it was done regularly. Most people had bomb shelters in their own homes, & of course they had places to use in schools, dept stores, & public bldgs. Everyone knew the radio channel to use "Conelrad" to get govt instructions in case of a nuclear attack. It was  a time of panic, & Khrushchev had warned "Russia will bury you" (meaning the USA).

    So when Barry Goldwater & USAF General Curtis LeMay wanted to "use nukes", the
    general public reaction was (of course) very NEGATIVE.

    The Democratic Party that year ran an effective TV campaign AD (**See below):

    http://www.livingroomcandidate.org/commercials/1964/peace-little-girl-daisy
  • Guy Dwyer
    2012-06-26 02:32:42 PM
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    Yes, one of the only good things I found about Goldwater was his criticism of the "religious right." But he was, I think, wrong about most things.

    Johnson (LBJ) would have been a far more effective president if he had focused on his war on poverty, on civil rights advocacy and other social programs and human services that were (and still are) so needed.

    Unfortunately, Johnson did not follow Kennedy's plan regarding Vietnam. Kennedy had planned to pull all of the military advisers out of Vietnam by 1965, and he was totally against U.S. forces serving in a combat role. But Johnson changed all that after Kennedy was assassinated. Kennedy had stood up to the Pentagon, but Johnson instead caved in to the Pentagon and the right-wing "domino theory" crowd. And the rest is history -- a disaster for the U.S., Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia.

    That is such a shame, because the U.S. had learned in the Philippines in its war against the Huks that you can't defeat Guerrilla forces who have the support of their own people

    Such history is relevant today, especially with Bush's war in Iraq and Afghanistan, because Obama has apparently not learned the lessons of history either.

    Granted, sometimes you gotta deal with the bad guys and take them out. But the wars we are fighting too often ignore the lessons of history, and too often assume that military might  is the most effective thing in dealing with the enemy.
  • fenway
    2012-06-26 05:14:06 PM
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    Veronica and Guy both make some good points.

    Guy is correct that "Obama has apparently not learned the lessons of history, either."

    And, he's not the first president, nor will he be the last president who does not learn that lesson from history.

    If he's such a great president, why doesn't he get us out of Afghanistan? 

    Does he REALLY think we are making positive, lasting changes?

    Does ANYONE?
  • WovenGems
    2012-06-26 05:23:52 PM
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    Zach F Wrote: Mr. Byrd's former stances were irrelevant. He was no longer a white supremacist. Hadn't been for a VERY long time. Electing Byrd in 2000 would not be electing a white supremacist.  The comparison is no where close to applicable. Had he run on a white supremacy platform in any recent election, then yes, fire away.

    Goldwater was nicknamed "Mr. Conservative." He championed the GOP for a long time. He warned of an uncompromising religious right and how they should not be allowed to gain control of the party, something that is happening right now. Today. Currently.

    I have never heard anyone call Edwards "Mr. Liberal" or in any other term to try and make him the face of the Democratic Party. Off the top of my head, I really can't think of anyone that Democrats have readily referred to, except for FDR.

    I tend to think that the party picks it's own champions. GOP picked Goldwater and now Reagan. Both who would not fit well in the current GOP atmosphere.

    No one could really say what Byrd has thought over the last 30 years. But you can't judge a man on his thoughts, just on his actions. So what was in his heart is really of no concern. Just his behavior.

    "Political theater" or "political environment" or "political stage" all names for the same thing. Using the same phrase over and over again can seem monotonous.

    Goldwater, as a person, may not be very relevant right now, but his words, his warnings, are exactly what is currently happening. So that is what makes it relevant to the current situation. If you find something Byrd did or said 50 years ago that is having an impact or is relevant now, and you want to discuss it, then start up a post. But comparing election platforms that are separated by half a century is a HUGE stretch.


    Fen can't stay on the Goldwater topic for he has no conservaite way to address that so the topic must change. 
  • that guy in AZ
    2020-03-15 01:25:24 PM
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    Zach F Wrote: So while nerding out and combining history and politics I stumbled upon a few cool quotes from the guy nicknamed "Mr. Conservative" by his supporters.

    "On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both.
    I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism."     ~Barry Goldwater 1981

    "Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them." ~Barry Goldwater 1994

    I know these are fairly long quotes but I feel like they continue to illustrate the how the Republican Party has made a massive, uncompromising shift to the right. Those who were once considered champions of the conservative movement, like Ronald Reagan and Barry Goldwater, would be completely marginalized by both the GOP and the Tea Party. The classic argument right now is how Reagan often raised taxes to get the economy up and running again, but now, even discussion of raising taxes is heresy.

    I know I'm probably beating a dead horse here, but it seems that the uncompromising position that often comes with religious beliefs has taken the reins of the Republican Party.

    I also just felt like ranting a little.

    Barry Goldwater's views on religious folks, which Zach posted in 2012, are as true today as they ever were.

    A recent poll from the Pew Research Center found that 15% of white evangelicals view Trump as “morally upstanding” and “honest,” while the other 45% described him as “fairly well” in terms of these characterizations.

    https://www.frontpagelive.com/2020/03/15/most-white-evangelicals-think-trump-is-morally-upstanding-survey-finds/

  • TJ
    2020-03-15 05:48:06 PM
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    Nearly 8 years between replies. Is that a record ? Wow.
  • Dutch
    2020-03-16 11:56:06 AM
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    The religious "freaks" have only become even more "nutty" than way before; this shows really that this country has become an exception in this world. Sorry people nor an Jesus or any "god" thing is going to save your ass; neither Trump's ass. You just die like every living thing and no ghost or miracle is going to dig you up and give you your life back. Amen

    This country sure has an "reality" problem.

  • that guy in AZ
    2020-03-16 12:22:21 PM
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    TJ Wrote: Nearly 8 years between replies. Is that a record ? Wow.

    T.J.

    That's why the search bar at the top comes in handy. It minimized the possibility of having 10 threads about the same topic.

  • that guy in AZ
    2020-03-16 12:28:23 PM
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    While public officials around the country are taking decisive action to prevent the spread of the virus, Martha McSally told us that Trump has designated today as a "day of prayer":

    ************************************************************

    Dear Friend,

    President Trump has declared today a National Day of Prayer amid the coronavirus outbreak.

    Americans are strong, resilient, and innovative and our country will get through this. But, this outbreak doesn’t care if you are a Republican or a Democrat. We are all Americans and we are blessed to live in the greatest country in the world.

    As we work together to protect the vulnerable and combat this virus, let's also come together in prayer today for those most vulnerable to this virus--the elderly, those with underlying health conditions and compromised immune systems. Let's also pray for the health care and nursing home workers caring for patients and the elderly. Decision makers in government and in the private sector, and the small businesses and workers impacted by the societal changes need our prayers too.

    I hear from constituents who feel helpless. We can each do a lot to "flatten the curve" of the spread. These steps will immensely help protect the vulnerable, buy us time, and ensure the health care system can meet the needs of patients.

    As individuals, we are all on the front-line of this battle:

    • wash your hands frequently
    • don’t touch your face, mouth, or eyes
    • stay home if you are feeling ill
    • stay away from those who are sick
    • Avoid large crowds of people especially in enclosed spaces

    You can find the most up-to-date information at coronavirus.gov and Arizona specific information at azhealth.gov.

    In Service,

    Image

    *************************************************************

    Republicans, of course, are the same people who came up with "pray the gay away", and a national day of prayer will accomplish the same thing.

  • Dutch
    2020-03-16 12:44:43 PM
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    The series on Netflix related to Dirty Money, shows exactly how nuts these evangelicals are. It is only used to have "power" over the people and get "rich" the easy way. Trump and his buddies can pray until they are turning purple, but nothing will change; the "viruses" have no human" like brains, nor care what they do, or accept dictation by humans or fantasy "god's etc. . "Up there" (in the universe) they don't have an "stock market" nor an Trump nor any "virus". Let alone human written "bibles" or other religious crap. By Trump it is only to make sure that these idiots keep voting for him. Nothing else counts.
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