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  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
    If the AIPACers in the U.S. Government get their way they'll leave very few alive in the Mideast!
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
    progressiveconnie Wrote: If the AIPACers in the U.S. Government get their way they'll leave very few alive in the Mideast!

    Don't get me started.

    On second thought, I'll quote something relevant from an article on The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict.

    "Obama fears the wrath and clout of the Israeli-American lobbies. The sole mission of a number of special interest groups, political action committees and lobbyist groups is to further the cause of Zionism and keep the financial and military assistance flowing from the U.S. to Israel, and their activities have increased. Another one was founded in 2009, called 'Z Street,' which apparently means 'The Road to Zion.' It was founded to counter and fight more moderate Jewish organizations, like Americans for Peace Now, and J Street, a moderate Jewish American advocacy group. Z Street founders accuse J Street of 'treason' because J Street was founded to promote diplomacy, peace and security.

    There are many other right-wing extremist Zionist groups, including the Zionist Organization of America (ZOA); the pro-Israeli front group Stand With Us; the American Israel Education Foundation; and The Israel Project (TIP). However; the vast majority of pro-Israel Lobbyist groups and Political Action Committees (PACs) have misleading or non-descriptive names. And apparently there are a large network of other PACs, most of them originally established in the early 1980s in their home cities by members of AIPAC’s board of directors.

    Now, I wonder why that is. After all, a significantly large number of Jewish people in the West and even in Israel are not Zionists, but in fact oppose Zionism. Many Zionists are not even Jewish, and many are secularists. Many are members of what I call the U.S. Religious Military Industrial Complex — businessmen, oil company executives, bankers, financiers, and speculators. Could it be that Zionism is about more than just a 'Jewish Homeland'?

    Even the Jewish Anti-Defamation League buys into it. It now belies its mission, which is supposed to be 'to stop the defamation of the Jewish people and to secure justice and fair treatment to all.' It claims to be 'the premier civil rights/human relations agency,' and it claims to fight 'all forms of bigotry.' But, in fact, over the last 50 years it has become more and more bigoted, and it ignores the civil rights of Arabs. It goes along with the idea of Jewish Israeli supremacy over Arabs, and it condones Israel’s abuse of military power, military occupation, and enforced apartheid.

    Some might find all that merely ironic, but it’s not. What’s ironic is that the American 'Christian' Right blindly supports the Israeli government too, in spite of Israel’s record of religious bigotry even against Christians. The fact is that since 1948 the population of Christians in the Mid-East has been shrinking, and that is in the land where Jesus declared that it will be the peacemakers and the meek who shall inherit the earth. For instance, there is a Palestinian Christian organization called Sabeel, founded by a refugee dislocated in 1948 by Israelis. Still, Sabeel promotes a theology of liberation based on justice, peace, non-violence and reconciliation with all people, regardless of their religion or nationality. But Sabeel is persecuted by the Israeli government’s 'defense' forces because most of Sabeel’s members are Palestinian Christians and not Christians from America or Europe."

    (Excerpted and quoted from an article called The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict.)
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
    Thanks Guy -- I read the article and it hits on many points that Americans are not a aware of...or should I say, deliberately misinformed.  I did considerable independent research on the Israel - Palestine Conflict a few years ago. I read Jimmy Carter's book, Peace, Not Apartheid, and The Israel Lobby by John J. Mearsheimer of the University of Chicago and Stephen M. Walt of Harvard's John F. Kennedy School of Government. However, the book that made the biggest impact on me was Ilan Pappé's book, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. It is an eye opener, and he freely uses the term "massacre" in describing the atrocities inflicted by the Israeli Defense Forces ( IDF) on innocent Palestinian civilians during their several year quest to make Israel into a Jewish state.

    Pappé has the credentials to support his statements.  From Wikipedia: He is an Israeli Jewish historian, born in Haifa Israel to German-Jewish parents who fled Nazi persecution in the 1930s. At the age of 18, he was drafted into the Israel Defense Forces, serving in the Golan Heights during the 1973 Yom Kippur War.  He graduated from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem in 1978, and in 1984 obtained his PhD in history from the University of Oxford, under the guidance of Arab historian Albert Hourani and Roger Owen. His doctoral thesis became his first book, Britain and the Arab-Israeli Conflict.

    This is a difficult and delicate subject to talk about, even in this website.  American opinion has been so "conditioned" over decades by a Israel friendly and compliant media.  They only know about the latest atrocities inflicted on the Israeli citizens by Palestinian extremists, but they are unaware of the history and reasons why there are such strong emotions in the Arab community of nations against what the Arabs call the "occupation" of their lands. Until an equitable solution is negotiated that addresses the legitimate grievances of the millions of Palestinians living in refugee camps, the Israelis will never know peace.

    I also will not stereotype the Israel Jewish people or the American Jewish people as being avid supporters of apartheid.  Indeed the organization, Jews Against the Occupation, has been very vocal in opposing the hard liners in Israel and the United States that block all attempts at a negotiated peace.  However, I believe that one of the biggest obstacles to peace is not the Jewish people, but rather Christian Zionists that believe in Biblical prophecy about "the land of Israel" and the second coming of Christ.

    The road to peace in the Middle East begins in Gaza.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
    Or else you could read a book written by the son of one of the originators of Hamas, to get a real glimpse into what the real struggle is about, 'SON of HAMAS"....these right-wing Jewish groups are blowing up innocent people??? Plotting to kill Americans??? burning Christian churches??? Putting up signs in neighbourhoods in America proclaiming "Jewish Zones and Jewish laws???  Right-Wing media supporting the Zionists???? Other than Fox News who are all your Right-Wing media?
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
    Cracam -- Your ignorance and Islamophobia shows every time you decide to visit this website.  Sometime you should take time to educate yourself instead of echoing right wing taking points.  The Palestinian - Israeli conflict is a delicate one, compounded by AIPAC and other organizations that deny history or are attempting to rewrite history. There is a solution for a negotiated peace in the Middle East but as long as there are think-a-likes like you, progress will be minimal.

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    Thanks for those sources. 

    I think part of the obstacle to peace is definitely Christian Zionists in America, along with all the pro-Israeli Zionist PACs in America mentioned in the article I cited.

    But Jewish Zionists are a big part of the obstacle too. And that is one of the points made in that article, speaking of Israel's first prime minister.

    "Ben-Gurion set the tone for the Israeli Zionist cause, being ignorant of Islam and simply ignoring Palestinian human rights. He also used inflammatory rhetoric, as have many right-wing Israeli hardliners ever since, insisting that they have a “divine right of return,” that military force and an iron fist was the only thing Palestinians would respect. But they are simply wrong. By their Zionist logic, Americans would have to give all the land back to the Native American Indians. Furthermore, no one respects offensive abuse of military power. They deeply resent it. That’s why Israel has erred ever since 1948, and Israel’s iniquity has only gotten worse and worse in that regard."
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
    Schmidt Wrote:  I believe that one of the biggest obstacles to peace is not the Jewish people, but rather Christian Zionists that believe in Biblical prophecy about "the land of Israel" and the second coming of Christ..

    There you hit the nail on the head.

    And the terrible irony in that is the fact the idea of a so-called "second coming" of Jesus of Nazareth in person is a myth. There's an article about that, The "Second Coming" Story, and here's a couple of quotes from it.

    "The fact is that not even Jesus said he would come again in person in this world. Jesus said he had to go away to heaven and be seen no more on earth (John 8:28, John 12:47 and John 16:7-15), but 'he' would come to us in the spiritual realm, so that 'where I am, you may be also' (John 14:3). That is confirmed in John 14:16-20, which explains that 'he' would come as the Spirit of truth, not in person.

    Most of the original Christians knew that, but Paul created a new theology, and considering the findings of archaeology and modern research and scholarship it is actually rather amazing that Paul’s theology was accepted and is reflected in the official church canon (bible) and in the Nicene Creed, because it produced many contradictions. One is the idea of a 'second coming' of Jesus of Nazareth in person. That is contradicted even by certain things in the official canon, and it is refuted by all the other writings and gospels that were not included in the canon. The Gnostic Gospels do not say anything about a so-called 'second coming' of Jesus, understanding what Jesus actually meant when he said he would come as the Spirit of truth within, to show you that 'where I am, you may be also.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
    Schmidt...keep drinking the Islamic never did respond to my suggestion that it's not the Jewish people that are creating havoc/distruction worldwide..are the people in Tailand occupying Arab territory,or the Phillipines,or Nigeria, or England? you for 1 second think that even if the State of Israel was on non-disputed territory muslims wouldn't be doing exactly what they are currently doing? The Palestinian people are unfortunately the fall-guy for Iran and allies,which now sadly includes Egypt.