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"Entitlements" - Social Security and Medicare are NOT entitlements

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  • Independent
    The Woodlands, TX
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    It really frosts me when people get on television and talk about Social Security and Medicare as entitlements. These are not entitlements! I have recently retired and have paid into, both mine and my company's contribution on my behalf, Social Security and Medicare for about 45 years. How are these entitlements, if I have paid all these years?

    If the gov't would give me all my money back with interest, I will gladly leave their "entitlement" systems.
  • Strongly Liberal
    Independent
    Seattle, WA
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    Bill Nadzak Wrote: It really frosts me when people get on television and talk about Social Security and Medicare as entitlements. These are not entitlements! I have recently retired and have paid into, both mine and my company's contribution on my behalf, Social Security and Medicare for about 45 years. How are these entitlements, if I have paid all these years?


    Good point. I myself have been making it for many years.

    But I've also been pointing out that the deceivers who got so many people to THINK of Social Security and Medicare as "entitlements" are the very people who believe that their wealth entitles them to rule.

    Those who believe that their wealth entitles them to rule are like the Hamiltonian Federalists who fought Thomas Jefferson's and  James Madison's Democratic Republican Party in 1800.

    Like the Hamiltonian Federalists in 1800, the modern Reaganite "religious right" has increasingly been claiming they are fighting to establish a "Christian Meritocracy," and they have concocted a "Gospel of Prosperity" as their rationale and justification, which declares that their wealth is a reward from God and the poor deserve to be poor because they are just lazy.

    They have been successful because there is some truth to what they say. But they focus on certain half-truths, and simply ignore the golden rule. In fact, they turn Christianity up-side-down.

    For instance, it is true that people should be self-reliant and we generally do reap what we sow. However, our political economic system is rigged so that many find it difficult if not impossible to be self-reliant, and the forces of greed and self-interest have stacked the deck so that they rake in unjust profits and financial gains and reap what they did not sow -- getting richer and richer while the middle class shrinks, the working poor population grows, and poverty, hunger and homelessness increase.

    By the way, I echo the message and the sentiments written at http://messenger.cjcmp.org and http://www.soundclick.com/ttap
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  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Dallas, TX
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    FDR was very clear on this:

    FICA Taxes do not make economic sense.

    FICA Taxes protect Social Security from politicians.

    Folks have "paid in"....and they would be damned pissed if they ever got their benefits taken away.

    Fact remains...government does not need our tax dollars to spend.

    Taxes and Savings create FISCAL SPACE for government to spend without driving up prices, and there are other ways of doing this besides regressive, punishing taxes beginning on the first dollar earned.




  • Libertarian
    Alabama
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    Social security and Medicare are not entitlements, those are dollars taken out of a person's wages that are EARNED, remember when people had jobs and could earn money?. America has aborted it's future. Millions of aborted children would now be of wage earning  and SS contributing age.  I detest it when people  try to convince me abortion does not have an effect on all of society.
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    wolffie Wrote:
    Social security and Medicare are not entitlements, those are dollars taken out of a person's wages that are EARNED, remember when people had jobs and could earn money?. America has aborted it's future. Millions of aborted children would now be of wage earning  and SS contributing age.  I detest it when people  try to convince me abortion does not have an effect on all of society.


    Just silly. Adding more workers won't create more jobs. And it was our manufacturing jobs that paid the bills. 
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    wolffie Wrote:
    Social security and Medicare are not entitlements, those are dollars taken out of a person's wages that are EARNED, remember when people had jobs and could earn money?. America has aborted it's future. Millions of aborted children would now be of wage earning  and SS contributing age.  I detest it when people  try to convince me abortion does not have an effect on all of society.


    If anything abortion certainly has a positive  effect on society rather than a negative.

    Good try trying to equate abortion rights with Social Security and Medicare! Why don't you be honest with us and just come out and say you are against abortion? Abortion is neither good or bad it's something that is a personal decision (and right) women have and their choice is no ones business except ther own!

    If you don't believe in abortion then don't get one but mind your own business when it comes to others.
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  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    Account Deleted Wrote: Who is saying Medicare and Social Security are an entitlement ? I have not heard that. Clearly it is not an entitlement as we paid in to it. I think the issue is that both systems are, on average, in every category, paying out more money than the average person contributes (see tax policy institute charts). I am not talking about "more baby boomers receiving than whats contributing in the system" issues -although that is a big problem too. I am saying that on average (re actuarial life), everyone reading this will get more out of the system than they put in. The question is how do we fix that ?


    We don't, that's how it's supposed to work. That's why it's called an entitlement and that's one reason we have a government. What do you think taxes are for?

    We fix it by creating a single payer health system, funded by the general tax fund, that covers everyone in the country. The prime reason that Social Security is expected to be in the red in the future is because the government doesn't reserve the money that recipients  pay into SS, they mingle it with all the general funds. It's all smoke and mirrors for the gullible public.

    Tax those that can well afford it, close all of their loopholes, cut waste (NOT SPENDING) and things will even out. The deficit is the biggest non-issue this country faces. Fraud by he Conservative Right, the Tea Party and giving power to the top 1% are the biggest problems this country faces by far!
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Dallas, TX
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    Look....the funds to pay our taxes (including FICA taxes) and buy government securities.....COME FROM GOVERNMENT SPENDING!

    So all of these analogies about the need for front-loaded savings for Social Security payments in the future....are totally out of paradigm and have no basis in reality. 

    Social Security/Medicare are about PUBLIC PURPOSE. There is no solvency issue other than what we create with our own laws!

    And we ought be in favor of a level of social welfare spending that makes us proud to be Americans!

    That means not so high that seniors are flying into the Superbowl on private jets with their Social Security checks, and not so low that seniors are forced to live in massive poverty.
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  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    The US government says they are "entitlements" and they are NOT wrong! Are you a Tea Party troll? Is that why you do not understand this simple concept!

    I don't know why people have such a difficult time understanding the concept of entitlements but they do.

    http://www.ontheissues.org/askme/entitlements.htm
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Entitlements

    I could go on and on posting links but I think most people here are capable of finding out the truth on their own.

    Both Medicare and SS are entitlements because Congress passed the legislation creating them. Yes, we all (most of us anyhow) pay into them or paid into them while working and at retirement age we are entitled to the benefits. Just because we contributed to them doesn't mean we only get back what we contributed. Most people receive far more back from both of these particular programs than they ever paid in, that is an understood fact of the programs. The government is obligated legally to pay these benefits to us no matter how much we contributed during our lifetime as we are entitled to them by law.

    If the funds we paid into do not make the programs solvent then it's up to the US government to make them solvent or for Congress to change the laws to reflect the wishes of our elected officials (and hopefully us), NOT the wealthy 1% who want to rule us. This is what the Ryan budget is all about and why it's SO BAD for the poor and middle class.

    The Conservative Republicans (Tea Party) want to do away with both SS and Medicare because they do not want to have their tax money go to make the plans (entitlements) solvent if they become insolvent. of course, there is a lot more to it than that. These same people who want to do away with Medicare, SS and Obama Care really mean they don't want to fund these programs but they would love to be able to stick you with bad self-funded retirement savings plans and private medical insurance that the 1% can get rich from selling to you (sorta like what they're doing now). 
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  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    Hardly insulting or rude. you asked a obvious questions and can't even see the facts when I point it out to you. Are you a troll? It sure seems to me you are. I hope not, but if so don't waste our time here please. we are on to your tricks.

    Don't be sorry, start thinking for yourself and stop believing the "party line".!
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  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    Sorry, my friend, it's very obvious to me that you are a troll. No Liberal/Progressive that I know would even ask such as question about entitlements. The answer is obvious that they are and just because you refuse to accept the fact is really immaterial to the answer and the truth.

    What I think you are really saying and believe is "I'm a good American and I don't believe in Socialism and if SS and Medicare are entitlements they must also be socialistic and I'M NOT A SOCIALIST."  Well, believe it or not without Socialism, Capitalism would fail. Neither pure Capitalism or pure Socialism work very well on their own. When they work together everyone benefits, when they work separately many are hurt.

    I'm sure you don't accept this philosophy at all because your are not really a Liberal/Progressive, you are obviously a Conservative (most likely Tea Party) troll looking for confirmation and sorry, you ain't gonna get it here! I suggest you turn Fox Not-News back on or perhaps those bastions of clear Conservative thinking, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck or even Sarah Palin if you want to be stroked.