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Tony Perkins interview - 5--14-2012

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    Veronica Wrote: I am busy researching something interesting about Pat Robertson & Jerry Falwell to show you - but FIRST: I just remembered something that came up in sociology or psychology class:

    That animals, specifically rodents, if put into a situation where they were confined and no escape, and "over-population" had occurred, it was not uncommon for the rodents to become homosexual. //// This is mind-blowing, isn't it? What does it prove? That homosexuality is possible among other animals, (mammals) and that it may NOT be "choice" or "genetic" but it may be a Nature response to very adverse circumstances. A primal form of adaptation.

    This may not be anyone else's idea, but it is something I realized when THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX. (I love to do that). Especially when it gets me in trouble:) "Veronica, stop doing that & keep your mind on this page. No more of that useless daydreaming, letting your mind wander all over the place. Keep focused!"
    -- (ha) -- Little did they know. 



    Interesting, and it kinda goes with what I had just said -- which of course just came off the top of my head.

    Also, as the song goes, "The feeling in my heart, it shows me the way; To be free to do what I can do. So I'll follow the way, Of my heart today. And I know that the dream will come true." -- From the song, The Dream Will Come True, by the Try Try Again Project.
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    Veronica

    However, I doubt your story about assisting with an abortion against your will, since that just never could happen. Only professionals are allowed to perform abortions, & they do not kill the fetus. It is sucked out of the womb with a vacuum hose, it is very quick & the fetus never feels any pain. It is unable to feel much pain at that stage of development and it would only be for a few seconds anyway.

    Have you ever heard of an OR nurse? Or a nurse physician? I said I have assisted with abortions.

    So HOW did you see "them kill the fetus" and "it was a horrible sight." ?? When the fetus has been sucked out, it is not much left to see, it is a tiny blob of tissue. Not much different than when you blow your nose

    You seem to know a lot for having never seen or assisted in an abortion.

    I have the right to my opinion and my moral values and should not be subjected to being called judgmental or racist or anything.My feelings are based on my experience. I have not called you judgmental or anything else I have just stated that I feel that abortion is murder. Let me ask you this. What is "liberal" about being liberal? Because if anyone dares disagree with a liberal they are called names and criticized. Whats that all about?
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    Dywer, I'm interested in learning about this. So the solution to poverty is to share. So how does that work? We give 50% 60% to the poor? Explain to me how that would work.



    "The solution is to share and share alike, and use the common wealth for the common good."
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    Dwyer, When it comes to abortion, stay out of it. This is between women. You have no idea what it is like to be a woman.
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    libertycitizen Wrote: Dywer, You wrote: "The solution is to share and share alike, and use the common wealth for the common good."

    I'm interested in learning about this. So the solution to poverty is to share. So how does that work? We give 50% 60% to the poor? Explain to me how that would work.



    Well, since you are a Christian, first let me show you what is in the sidebar on the page, Poverty: America's Greatest Shame:

    The Judeo-Christian and Universal Divine Imperative to Care For the Poor

    "Is not this the fast that I choose: to loose the bonds of injustice, to remove the yoke, to let the oppressed go free, and to break every yoke? Is it not to share your bread with the hungry, and bring the homeless poor into your house; and when you see the naked, to cover them?" -- Isaiah 58:3-24

    Defend the poor and fatherless. Do justice to the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy: take them out of the hands of the wicked.” – Psalm 82:3-4

    He that oppresses the poor reproaches his Maker, but he that honors the Lord has mercy on the poor.” – Proverbs 14:31

    He that has pity on the poor lends to the Lord; and what he has given will be repaid.” --.Proverbs  19:17

    The righteous consider the cause of the poor, but the wicked care not to know it.” – Proverbs 29:7

    Judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.” -- Proverbs 31:9

    "None among them can be found richer than another. It is their law that all who enter the sect must divide their property among the members of the society, with the result that there is never seen among them either abject poverty nor great wealth, for, since every man's possessions are put into the common treasury, they all have, like brothers, one inheritance.”  -- Flavius Josephus, a Jewish historian writing of the Essenes ( the Jewish sect to which Mary, Joseph, Jesus and James belonged, which is why the disciples of Jesus did the same thing according to the Christian book of Acts).

    And all that believed were together, and had all things common. They sold their possessions and goods, and distributed proceeds to everyone as they had need.” -- Acts 2:44-45

    None among them lacked, for those that owned lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds from the things that were sold, and distributed them to everyone according to their need.” -- Acts 4:34-35

    Then [Jesus] said: 'Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. Blessed are you who are hungry now, for you will be filled. Blessed are you who weep now, for you will laugh.’” -- Luke 6:20-21

    [Jesus] went to the synagogue and stood up to read, and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written: 'The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to bring good news to the poor.'” -- Luke 4:18:

    Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said, ‘You lack one thing; go, sell what you own, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.’" -- Mark 10:21-22

    When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or relatives or rich neighbors, so they may invite you in return to be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind. And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you, for you will be repaid [by God].’" -- Luke 14:12-14

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    Now, the beginning of the article is as follows:

    "About half of the people in Americans have misguided opinions and feelings about poverty, and, because of what they've been led to believe, they tend to generalize and blame the victims.

    But, that was the goal of those who misled and deceived them, who want you to believe that the rich are blessed and the poor deserve their lot in life.

    That is why the truth must be told, and why those who have been misled need to understand that as you do unto the poor and the least of our brethren, so you do unto our God and your very Self.

    That's not merely a religious idea. In the most enlightened, successful and harmonic ancient tribes and nations of the world, the elderly, the disabled, the orphans and anyone else who needed help and support received it from the community. The people took care of each other. It was the natural, humanitarian thing to do. It was just common sense. And it still is.

    Unfortunately, the more populated and “civilized” humanity became, the less humanitarian some people became, especially those who fought for and gained great personal wealth, power, and domain.

    That is why enlightened, conscientious spiritual teachers have always been sent by God to teach people how they should behave toward one another. In fact, that is why there have been so many great spiritual teachers who have taught the Universal Divine Imperative that we should treat all others as we would want to be treated if we were them
    ."

    ................................

    The author, in that article and most other articles on that site, merely tell the truth that is consistent with scriptures, consistent with true spiritual values, and consistent with humanitarian values that are common to all people of conscience and good will.

    Those values are that we care for one another, especially the poor, the elderly, the orphans, the disabled, the disadvantaged.

    He points out that America's Founding Fathers wanted government to "promote the general welfare." But they didn't spell it out. That is why, when the consequences of greed, self-interest and corruption almost brought the country to ruin in the late 1920s and early 1930s, President Franklin D. Roosevelt saved the country with the New Deal.

    Our problems today were caused because too many Americans forgot the lessons of history and instead listened to Reaganite Republicans who have steadily sought to destroy Roosevelt's New Deal and instead implant the Reaganite "Gospel of Prosperity," which in face turned Christianity up side down while claiming to be Christian.

    As to your question, private and religious charities cannot provide all the help that is needed. That is why we, the people, need to ensure that the Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid programs are adequate, and that government human services are adequate to help those who need help.

    The American people are quick to help out their neighbors when natural disasters strike. The best comes out in us during times of dire crisis. But poverty, hunger and homelessness are also crises too. It is no different. But heartless people have claimed otherwise, insisting that the poor deserve to be poor and they brought it upon themselves.

    That is a very convenient rationale and justification for cutting human services, reducing taxes for the rich, and enabling the rich to get richer. The so-called "Welfare Reform Act" of 1996 was a heartless act that increased poverty but it was sold as being fair and good for the country. But such rationale and acts are not Christian. They are not humanitarian. They are driven by greed, selfishness and wickedness which is disguised as patriotic and religious.
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    libertycitizen Wrote: Dwyer, When it comes to abortion, stay out of it. This is between women. You have no idea what it is like to be a woman.


    Sorry, but it's not just between women. This is an issue involving all human beings. And your tone doesn't feel right to me.
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    Dwyer, Perhaps "My tone" doesn't feel right" is because a man does not have any idea what its like to be pregnant or to have to face important decisions when it comes to pregnancy.It takes great courage. when faced with an unwanted pregnancy,for a woman to decide to keep the baby. And there is always adoption but that is a painful decision also. But abortion? Do you realize how many women go into depression after having an abortion? Do you realize the toll it takes on a woman's body when she has an abortion. Back in the 80's we would get patients in for their 4th and 5th abortions. They were using abortion as birth control. But then on the opposite side, we would get women in to deliver that had no prenatal care or were crack addicts who delivered babies that had to withdraw from drugs or were deformed or had learning disabilities. Many of the nurses adopted those babies. then there were mothers who would come in and deliver and then abandon their babies. Would you say it would have been better if they had aborted? We have asked that until we would be called to assist with another abortion. I have been accused of being a self righteous Christian. The reason I  believe the way  I do is because I have been in the trenches and I have worked with poverty and prostitutes and drug addicts and families who for generations after generation it was normal for them to be on welfare. They don't know any other way to live. And we would set up programs to help them. Programs to help them learn how to dress and fill out job applications and guess what? Very few would show up. You can pump as much money into helping the poor as you want and it won't do any good. The problem lies with morality, the work ethic, and self respect. And until someone can devise a way to instill all of that into their lives we will always have the poor. You can criticize Christians all you want but the organizations that helped the most were Christian organizations. they helped people to find hope and respect for themselves and find another way to live. I'm not saying they were successful 100% of the time but I say many pick themselves up and go on to lead productive lives. But then there are many who insist on remaining prostitutes and drug addicts and they are the ones you mourn over. Its hard and a painful thing to watch 22 year olds die of alcoholism or be locked up in a psych ward because they have burned their brains out on drugs or to help another baby come in to the world hooked on crack. For me thats where prayer comes in. This fairness stuff, its just another political agenda to try to help Obama to get reelected. He is trying to use the gay community, the poor and anyone else he can as political pawns and it is disgusting.
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    libertycitizen Wrote: Dwyer, Perhaps "My tone" doesn't feel right" is because a man does not have any idea what its like to be pregnant or to have to face important decisions when it comes to pregnancy.It takes great courage. when faced with an unwanted pregnancy,for a woman to decide to keep the baby. And there is always adoption but that is a painful decision also. But abortion? Do you realize how many women go into depression after having an abortion? Do you realize the toll it takes on a woman's body when she has an abortion. Back in the 80's we would get patients in for their 4th and 5th abortions. They were using abortion as birth control. But then on the opposite side, we would get women in to deliver that had no prenatal care or were crack addicts who delivered babies that had to withdraw from drugs or were deformed or had learning disabilities. Many of the nurses adopted those babies. then there were mothers who would come in and deliver and then abandon their babies. Would you say it would have been better if they had aborted? We have asked that until we would be called to assist with another abortion. I have been accused of being a self righteous Christian. The reason I  believe the way  I do is because I have been in the trenches and I have worked with poverty and prostitutes and drug addicts and families who for generations after generation it was normal for them to be on welfare. They don't know any other way to live. And we would set up programs to help them. Programs to help them learn how to dress and fill out job applications and guess what? Very few would show up. You can pump as much money into helping the poor as you want and it won't do any good. The problem lies with morality, the work ethic, and self respect. And until someone can devise a way to instill all of that into their lives we will always have the poor. You can criticize Christians all you want but the organizations that helped the most were Christian organizations. they helped people to find hope and respect for themselves and find another way to live. I'm not saying they were successful 100% of the time but I say many pick themselves up and go on to lead productive lives. But then there are many who insist on remaining prostitutes and drug addicts and they are the ones you mourn over. Its hard and a painful thing to watch 22 year olds die of alcoholism or be locked up in a psych ward because they have burned their brains out on drugs or to help another baby come in to the world hooked on crack. For me thats where prayer comes in. This fairness stuff, its just another political agenda to try to help Obama to get reelected. He is trying to use the gay community, the poor and anyone else he can as political pawns and it is disgusting.


    I understand where you're coming from. But you assume I don't know what I'm talking about when in fact I do.

    I worked for 20 years in a state human services agency that worked very hard to curb rates of child abuse and neglect, teen pregnancy, poverty, drug abuse, etc., so I am very well aware of the actual problems, and I know of what I speak.

    The poor will always be with us. That's true. But I grieve mostly over the working poor who work hard for a living but aren't paid a living wage. And I grieve because our government has become more and more heartless because heartless and greedy people have made it so.

    You are utterly wrong in thinking that "this fairness stuff is just another political agenda to try to help Obama to get reelected." If you read all my posts on this board, or read any of the articles I have cited, you will see that I consider Democrats the lesser of two evils that divide us.

    Think again, and don't be so presumptuous.
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    Liberty Citizen: I think you have received much good information from Dwyer to explain all your questions on "sharing" & acting like a "compassionate Christian." I wonder why this would not have been taught to you in your own church. Are you a Baptist? Or which other?

    I know a lot about abortion since I took a few semesters of Biology and was an escort at a clinic for a few days. (Most patients that I escorted were teenagers). It was sad to see, but glad I was there to help them stay calm.

    Despite what the right wing says, statistics show that 99% of abortion patients do NOT feel extreme guilt or depression. The recovery is usually very easy, with very few side effects. Women in Japan can get an abortion in the morning & go right back to work in the afternoon. Some women over there have had 5 abortions. I think that is appalling, since good birth control could easily keep that from being necessary.

    I usually would not respond very much to a person's posts, but you said you had been forced to participate in an abortion against your will. And that made me wonder - How could that ethically) happen? You said that seeing that was a very horrible experience. I guess that is a sad situation to watch, no matter what side you are on. But in another post you said its best for us to "hear a fetus screaming" now, before your own is screaming." That lets me KNOW you're telling a LIE, since the fetus cannot scream at all, it is not capable of doing that. So for some reason you are only passing along right wing LIES here, while taking every chance you can to criticize President Obama. 
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    Veronica, WHAT????? So you took a few semesters of biology and was an escort and so therefore you know all about the subject? Come on! Try 26 years of working in the field and then tell me what its all about. Your accusations are the result of the fact that I dare disagree with you. Now I'm a liar? And your referring me to Dwyers religious rant? Does this make sense? Right wing lies has nothing to do with what I wrote. I wrote my personal experience as to why I'm against abortion. Now your call me a liar? Wow Veronica, I'm sorry you had to resort to name calling again. Maybe your the one that should refer to Dwyers religious rantings. Your thoughts and writing are convoluted at best.
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    libertycitizen Wrote: Veronica, WHAT????? So you took a few semesters of biology and was an escort and so therefore you know all about the subject? Come on! Try 26 years of working in the field and then tell me what its all about. Your accusations are the result of the fact that I dare disagree with you. Now I'm a liar? And your referring me to Dwyers religious rant? Does this make sense? Right wing lies has nothing to do with what I wrote. I wrote my personal experience as to why I'm against abortion. Now your call me a liar? Wow Veronica, I'm sorry you had to resort to name calling again. Maybe your the one that should refer to Dwyers religious rantings. Your thoughts and writing are convoluted at best.


    So you resort to accusing Veronica of "name calling" and dismissing what I say as a "religious rant."

    That's sad. But what's more sad is that you call yourself "LibertyCitizen" even though you have a very odd idea of what liberty is.

    We have the right to demand the freedom and liberty to speak our mind. But our freedom and liberty is tainted and diminished by people who use mean-spirited, misleading and even deceptive language, as you do -- and as so many like-minded extreme right-wing ideologues do.

    Granted, as Fenway has pointed out, extreme left wing ideologues are as bad (though not quite as bad). That's why those of us who love and advocate democracy strive to establish a Democratic Republic with government that is actually of the people, by the people, and for the people.

    We do not have that yet because partisan extremists are too busy dividing and polarizing people into warring camps. If they would stop and think, and seek and find the truth that will liberate and empower us all, and unite us in common purpose for the common good, then we could advance and progress forward -- together.