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Is there such a thing as a "Christian Caliphate?"

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  • Democrat
    Newman Lake, WA
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    Guy Dwyer Wrote: When faced with overwhelming facts, American Theocrats are always at a loss for words.

    Thank God, the day will come when it will be socially unacceptable for any people to claim that their religion is superior to all others, or that their race or nation or culture is superior to all others.

    The day will come when bigotry in all its forms --- religious bigotry, racial bigotry, etc. --- will be considered wrong, and socially unacceptable.

    Unfortunately, those with very deluded, self-important, self-righteous egos who still believe that their religion or race or nation or culture IS superior fight the truth tooth and nail. They call the truth a lie. They try not to lose face. And they know not what they do.



    Americans have a constitutional right to religous freedom.  Do you have a problem with that?
  • Strongly Liberal
    Independent
    Seattle, WA
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    alias Wrote:
    Guy Dwyer Wrote: When faced with overwhelming facts, American Theocrats are always at a loss for words.

    Thank God, the day will come when it will be socially unacceptable for any people to claim that their religion is superior to all others, or that their race or nation or culture is superior to all others.

    The day will come when bigotry in all its forms --- religious bigotry, racial bigotry, etc. --- will be considered wrong, and socially unacceptable.

    Unfortunately, those with very deluded, self-important, self-righteous egos who still believe that their religion or race or nation or culture IS superior fight the truth tooth and nail. They call the truth a lie. They try not to lose face. And they know not what they do.

    Americans have a constitutional right to religous freedom. Do you have a problem with that?
    Yes, Americans do have a constitutional right to religious freedom, and that's what I am promoting. It's too bad you don't know what that means.

    "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State." – Thomas Jefferson

    "Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by [Religious] Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in history." – James Madison
  • Democrat
    Newman Lake, WA
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    Guy Dwyer Wrote:
    alias Wrote:
    Guy Dwyer Wrote: When faced with overwhelming facts, American Theocrats are always at a loss for words.

    Thank God, the day will come when it will be socially unacceptable for any people to claim that their religion is superior to all others, or that their race or nation or culture is superior to all others.

    The day will come when bigotry in all its forms --- religious bigotry, racial bigotry, etc. --- will be considered wrong, and socially unacceptable.

    Unfortunately, those with very deluded, self-important, self-righteous egos who still believe that their religion or race or nation or culture IS superior fight the truth tooth and nail. They call the truth a lie. They try not to lose face. And they know not what they do.



    Americans have a constitutional right to religous freedom.  Do you have a problem with that?


    Please try not to be so obtuse. Try reading with comprehension.

    Yes, Americans do have a constitutional right to religious freedom, and that's what I am promoting. It's too bad you don't know what that means.

    "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State." – Thomas Jefferson

    "Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by [Religious] Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in history." – James Madison



    I agree with both men.  I think the problem we have here is a gigantic straw man blocking your view of reality.
  • Strongly Liberal
    Independent
    Seattle, WA
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    alias Wrote:
    Guy Dwyer Wrote:
    alias Wrote:
    Guy Dwyer Wrote: When faced with overwhelming facts, American Theocrats are always at a loss for words.

    Thank God, the day will come when it will be socially unacceptable for any people to claim that their religion is superior to all others, or that their race or nation or culture is superior to all others.

    The day will come when bigotry in all its forms --- religious bigotry, racial bigotry, etc. --- will be considered wrong, and socially unacceptable.

    Unfortunately, those with very deluded, self-important, self-righteous egos who still believe that their religion or race or nation or culture IS superior fight the truth tooth and nail. They call the truth a lie. They try not to lose face. And they know not what they do.



    Americans have a constitutional right to religous freedom.  Do you have a problem with that?


    Please try not to be so obtuse. Try reading with comprehension.

    Yes, Americans do have a constitutional right to religious freedom, and that's what I am promoting. It's too bad you don't know what that means.

    "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State." – Thomas Jefferson

    "Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by [Religious] Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in history." – James Madison



    I agree with both men.  I think the problem we have here is a gigantic straw man blocking your view of reality.


    If you agree with Jefferson's and Madison's statements, then you contradict yourself.

    You cannot have it both ways, and you cannot avoid facing the truth about this issue.

    As the article I cited (Quotes Of the Founding Fathers Regarding Religion) says, "If we consider the words written by the Founding Fathers regarding religion, we find that most of them were men of faith in the Deity, in the 'Creator,' in 'Nature's God,' and in 'Divine Providence.' For even though many of them were or had been Protestant Christians, most of them identified with the principles of Deism, which is belief in the Deity or God but without superstition or dogma associated with any particular religion." (Emphasis added.)

    Continuing: "That is why in the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution they used generic religious terms like Creator and Nature's God and purposely did not use words specific to one religion --- because they understood that a nation cannot have freedom of religion unless government is neutral regarding religion and shows no favoritism."

    I have already quoted much of the rest of that article, because it accurately reflects the view of most of the Founding Fathers regarding religion. And their views are contrary to the claims of the theocratic leaders of the "Religious Right" who you identify with, who have claimed that the United States of America was founded as an exclusively Christian nation.

    That is simply not true, because even though most of the Founding Fathers loved the core universal teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, to a man they rejected Theocracy and theocratic political intrusion of religion into the operations of government. In fact, most of them agreed with Thomas Paine, Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, who were vehemently opposed to Theocrats and against the corruption of Christianity by hypocrites who had for centuries been masquerading as Christians in order to gain personal wealth, power, and domain. The Founding Fathers wanted to prevent that from happening any more.

    Unfortunately, Reaganism was concocted and melded with corporate propaganda with the collusion of right-wing televangelists like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, who have steadfastly claimed that the Founding Fathers wanted America to be "The Land of Jesus." Robertson has even claimed that "the idea of separation of church and state is a lie of the left." Furthermore, Roberson and others like him have claimed that wealth is a reward from God, and that the poor deserve to be poor because they're just lazy. Talk about a pack of lies.

    But Jesus predicted it. He said hypocrites would be claiming to "do many wonderful works in the name of the Lord," even though they "work iniquity." (See About Christianity.)
    .
  • Independent
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    There's no teaching in the Bible to wage "Holy War", although the Koran might state what you wrote that was probably when Muhammad was in Medina where his teachings were more like biblical teachings, when he moved to Mecca and became a "warlord" his teachings became more and more intolerant of non-Muslims, such as forcing non-muslims to pay a jizzah(tax),convert to islam or be killed. Most of the "moderate" muslim nations are now being taken over by radicals bent on bringing about the muslim caliphate, sharia law, and world domination.Mali, Indonisia, Turkey ,Egypt, nigeria are in the news every day, and it's not because Christian or Jews are seeking world domination....
  • Strongly Liberal
    Independent
    Seattle, WA
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    Cracam Wrote: There's no teaching in the Bible to wage "Holy War", although the Koran might state what you wrote that was probably when Muhammad was in Medina where his teachings were more like biblical teachings, when he moved to Mecca and became a "warlord" his teachings became more and more intolerant of non-Muslims, such as forcing non-muslims to pay a jizzah(tax),convert to islam or be killed. Most of the "moderate" muslim nations are now being taken over by radicals bent on bringing about the muslim caliphate, sharia law, and world domination.Mali, Indonisia, Turkey ,Egypt, nigeria are in the news every day, and it's not because Christian or Jews are seeking world domination....


    Cracam,

    Actually, the Hebrew Bible (Torah and Tanakh) speaks a lot about religious wars (even though Solomon was quite clear about how he felt about war, saying that Wisdom is better than weapons of war, and "Her paths are peace").

    And, about Muhammad, he was only human, and not perfect. He was not "The Seal of the Prophets," as his followers declared in the Hadiths. But in having the Qur'an written, he did ensure that it included a lot that honored the prophets of Judaism, and of Jesus of Nazareth.

    For example, the Qur'an forbids coercion in religious matters. Muhammad made it very clear that he was not founding a religion to which everyone had to belong. According to the Qur'an, "There must be no coercion in matters of faith" (2:256). Therefore, coercion or the imposition of religion on unwilling people or all citizens is not permitted. If people disagree with a Muslim, he is to say: "Unto you your moral law, and unto me, mine." (109:6) In fact, in the Qur'an, as in Jewish and Christian scriptures, there is an emphatic prohibition of imposition, force and compulsion in religious matters (which is something the imposing American Christian Right really needs to learn and abide by).

    Don't be mislead by the anti-Islam propaganda spread by the "Christian Right," because they are not much better than the misguided radical "Muslim" terrorists. See About Islam.
    .
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Denton, TX
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    It will be nice when bronze age superstitions cease to be a driving force in men's lives. People are killing each other over what happens to you when you die and failing to see the irony. The universe is far too interesting and life is far too precious to have it marred by the words of people who didn't know where the sun went at night.

    Sort of relevant. xkcd is one of my favorite comic strips
    http://xkcd.com/154/
  • Independent
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    Guy Dwyer...you obviously don't keep up with world news..every day your misunderstanders of Islam are murdering non-muslims and burning down churches...Nigeria especially has been a hotbed of islamic intolerance with no outcry from "moderate muslims" if there is such a thing..just for fun go to jihadwatch.com ...not a day goes by that Islamic terrorists aren't murdering or destroying churches..come on..I dare you..you can't even compare Christians and Jews with Muslims and be creditable
  • Strongly Liberal
    Independent
    Seattle, WA
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    Cracam Wrote: Guy Dwyer...you obviously don't keep up with world news..every day your misunderstanders of Islam are murdering non-muslims and burning down churches...Nigeria especially has been a hotbed of islamic intolerance with no outcry from "moderate muslims" if there is such a thing..just for fun go to jihadwatch.com ...not a day goes by that Islamic terrorists aren't murdering or destroying churches..come on..I dare you..you can't even compare Christians and Jews with Muslims and be creditable


    Contrary to your claim, I am painfully aware of world news.

    You are apparently unaware that even though I respect true Islam, I am very much against phony false Muslims who are waging a FALSE Jihad.

    A true Jihad is a righteous, defensive war against foreign invasion and occupation of your country, while a false Jihad is offensive, indiscriminate killing.

    Before you criticize me, find out about the message I am promoting.
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  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    jeffreydavidmorris -- This thread is five years old and we pretty well beat the topic to death back then. As a new member, I don't understand your motives in just providing a biblical reference and some other abbreviated letters and numbers. The relevance of Luke 9:24 to the discussions is not readily apparent to me. No we are NOT CLEAR.

    Most new members join this website because maybe one of the threads caught their eye and they are eager to share their worldview on the subject. You are welcome as a new member but don't expect us to be clairvoyant in trying to understand what point you are making. Please articulate in a language we can understand.

  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    Not optimistic about the ability to form sentences w/o scriptures referenced.
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    Re: the question asked in the thread's title.

    The first Christian "caliphate" was established when Christianity became the state religion of Rome. Those deemed heretical were hunted down. And for some additional evidence of the potential for violence inherent in the blending of religion and politics we need only look at the bloodshed between Catholic and Protestant, the crusades, the continued strife between Hindu and Moslem.

    Look into the religious tyranny established by the Puritans.