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Is there such a thing as a "Christian Caliphate?"


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  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    alias Wrote:
    Guy Dwyer Wrote:
    alias Wrote: Seems to me as long as we have religious freedom in the USA, there is no danger of a "Christian Caliphate".  We've been okay for over 200 years without anyone establishing a "Christian Caliphate".  That is a diversionary rabbit trail to take the focus off the real problem and threat to liberty in the world, Islamic Caliphate established through intimidation and terrorism.  There are no Christian run states on this planet who are threatening democratic nations.  Islam is the problem in Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, Hamas, Al Queda, etc, etc, etc.

    Get real.


    Seems to me you miss the point, perhaps because you are unaware of how political powerful the "religious right" has become in America.

    Perhaps the most blatant example of that was in the 2008 presidential election, when being a Christian was a de facto litmus test for being a viable candidate for the presidency.

    That's because for the last 30 years since the "religious right" rose to political power with Ronald Reagan, they have been gaining more and more political power from local school boards to state legislatures to the judiciary (all the way to the Supreme Court) to Congress and the White House (under Reagan and Bush).

    Check out Ignored American History, and check out how America has betrayed the intent of the Founding Fathers regarding religion.
    ...


    Reagan scares you, huh.  Have you ever read any of George washington's speeches? If the religous right is so powerful, how did Obama get elected?


    Reagan is dead. And Obama got elected because the impact of Reaganism (which was perpetuated and expanded by Bush and enabled the forces of greed and self-interest) had nearly brought the country to ruin. Enough Americans realized that and voted for Obama because they wanted change.

    Unfortunately, Obama has not produced the kind of changes and reforms that we need, and there are two reasons for that. One is that he has been thwarted by a very offensive and deceptive right-wing extremist faction, and the other is that he is beholden to the wealthiest few who provided most of the funding for his campaign.

    I am an Independent, and like Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and most other Founding Fathers, I want America to be a Democratic Republic that will ensure equal opportunities for everyone, promote the general welfare, and guarantee real freedom of religion and justice for all the people, not just the wealthiest few.

    As it is, the U.S. Government does not promote or ensure or guarantee those things. In fact, during the last 30 years under Reaganism, we have been pushed backward and away from those things.

    One of the most powerful forces pushing us backward is the "religions right," which is why Obama is being forced to prove he is a Christian. That's how powerful the "religious right" is, and that's why everyone should know how and why THAT VIOLATES THE CONSTITUTION AND THE INTENT OF THE FOUNDING FATHERS. Under Article 6 of the Constitution there must be no religious requirement for office, and as Thomas Jefferson wrote, the freedom of religion clause in the First Amendment was meant to "build a wall of separation between church and state." But the "religious right" has all but torn down that wall.

    Reaganite Republicans, Libertarians, the "Tea Party" and the "religious right" have been fooled, misled and deceived because right-wing demagogues have appealed to their sense of hegemonic nationalistic pride, their prejudices, their emotions, and their bigotry (whether it's religious bigotry, nationalistic bigotry, or racial bigotry). And all that bigotry must be exposed and utterly rejected for what it is.

    That's why I am a member of The All Faiths Coalition for Peace, Freedom and Justice.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Guy Dwyer Wrote:
    alias Wrote:
    Guy Dwyer Wrote:
    alias Wrote: Seems to me as long as we have religious freedom in the USA, there is no danger of a "Christian Caliphate".  We've been okay for over 200 years without anyone establishing a "Christian Caliphate".  That is a diversionary rabbit trail to take the focus off the real problem and threat to liberty in the world, Islamic Caliphate established through intimidation and terrorism.  There are no Christian run states on this planet who are threatening democratic nations.  Islam is the problem in Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, Hamas, Al Queda, etc, etc, etc.

    Get real.


    Seems to me you miss the point, perhaps because you are unaware of how political powerful the "religious right" has become in America.

    Perhaps the most blatant example of that was in the 2008 presidential election, when being a Christian was a de facto litmus test for being a viable candidate for the presidency.

    That's because for the last 30 years since the "religious right" rose to political power with Ronald Reagan, they have been gaining more and more political power from local school boards to state legislatures to the judiciary (all the way to the Supreme Court) to Congress and the White House (under Reagan and Bush).

    Check out Ignored American History, and check out how America has betrayed the intent of the Founding Fathers regarding religion.
    ...


    Reagan scares you, huh.  Have you ever read any of George washington's speeches? If the religous right is so powerful, how did Obama get elected?


    Reagan is dead. And Obama got elected because the impact of Reaganism (which was perpetuated and expanded by Bush and enabled the forces of greed and self-interest) had nearly brought the country to ruin. Enough Americans realized that and voted for Obama because they wanted change.

    Unfortunately, Obama has not produced the kind of changes and reforms that we need, and there are two reasons for that. One is that he has been thwarted by a very offensive and deceptive right-wing extremist faction, and the other is that he is beholden to the wealthiest few who provided most of the funding for his campaign.

    I am an Independent, and like Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and most other Founding Fathers, I want America to be a Democratic Republic that will ensure equal opportunities for everyone, promote the general welfare, and guarantee real freedom of religion and justice for all the people, not just the wealthiest few.

    As it is, the U.S. Government does not promote or ensure or guarantee those things. In fact, during the last 30 years under Reaganism, we have been pushed backward and away from those things.

    One of the most powerful forces pushing us backward is the "religions right," which is why Obama is being forced to prove he is a Christian. That's how powerful the "religious right" is, and that's why everyone should know how and why THAT VIOLATES THE CONSTITUTION AND THE INTENT OF THE FOUNDING FATHERS. Under Article 6 of the Constitution there must be no religious requirement for office, and as Thomas Jefferson wrote, the freedom of religion clause in the First Amendment was meant to "build a wall of separation between church and state." But the "religious right" has all but torn down that wall.

    Reaganite Republicans, Libertarians, the "Tea Party" and the "religious right" have been fooled, misled and deceived because right-wing demagogues have appealed to their sense of hegemonic nationalistic pride, their prejudices, their emotions, and their bigotry (whether it's religious bigotry, nationalistic bigotry, or racial bigotry). And all that bigotry must be exposed and utterly rejected for what it is.

    That's why I am a member of The All Faiths Coalition for Peace, Freedom and Justice.

    Guy Dwyer Wrote:
    alias Wrote:
    Guy Dwyer Wrote:
    alias Wrote: Seems to me as long as we have religious freedom in the USA, there is no danger of a "Christian Caliphate".  We've been okay for over 200 years without anyone establishing a "Christian Caliphate".  That is a diversionary rabbit trail to take the focus off the real problem and threat to liberty in the world, Islamic Caliphate established through intimidation and terrorism.  There are no Christian run states on this planet who are threatening democratic nations.  Islam is the problem in Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, Hamas, Al Queda, etc, etc, etc.

    Get real.


    Seems to me you miss the point, perhaps because you are unaware of how political powerful the "religious right" has become in America.

    Perhaps the most blatant example of that was in the 2008 presidential election, when being a Christian was a de facto litmus test for being a viable candidate for the presidency.

    That's because for the last 30 years since the "religious right" rose to political power with Ronald Reagan, they have been gaining more and more political power from local school boards to state legislatures to the judiciary (all the way to the Supreme Court) to Congress and the White House (under Reagan and Bush).

    Check out Ignored American History, and check out how America has betrayed the intent of the Founding Fathers regarding religion.
    ...


    Reagan scares you, huh.  Have you ever read any of George washington's speeches? If the religous right is so powerful, how did Obama get elected?


    Reagan is dead. And Obama got elected because the impact of Reaganism (which was perpetuated and expanded by Bush and enabled the forces of greed and self-interest) had nearly brought the country to ruin. Enough Americans realized that and voted for Obama because they wanted change.

    Unfortunately, Obama has not produced the kind of changes and reforms that we need, and there are two reasons for that. One is that he has been thwarted by a very offensive and deceptive right-wing extremist faction, and the other is that he is beholden to the wealthiest few who provided most of the funding for his campaign.

    I am an Independent, and like Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and most other Founding Fathers, I want America to be a Democratic Republic that will ensure equal opportunities for everyone, promote the general welfare, and guarantee real freedom of religion and justice for all the people, not just the wealthiest few.

    As it is, the U.S. Government does not promote or ensure or guarantee those things. In fact, during the last 30 years under Reaganism, we have been pushed backward and away from those things.

    One of the most powerful forces pushing us backward is the "religions right," which is why Obama is being forced to prove he is a Christian. That's how powerful the "religious right" is, and that's why everyone should know how and why THAT VIOLATES THE CONSTITUTION AND THE INTENT OF THE FOUNDING FATHERS. Under Article 6 of the Constitution there must be no religious requirement for office, and as Thomas Jefferson wrote, the freedom of religion clause in the First Amendment was meant to "build a wall of separation between church and state." But the "religious right" has all but torn down that wall.

    Reaganite Republicans, Libertarians, the "Tea Party" and the "religious right" have been fooled, misled and deceived because right-wing demagogues have appealed to their sense of hegemonic nationalistic pride, their prejudices, their emotions, and their bigotry (whether it's religious bigotry, nationalistic bigotry, or racial bigotry). And all that bigotry must be exposed and utterly rejected for what it is.

    That's why I am a member of The All Faiths Coalition for Peace, Freedom and Justice.


    That's nice, but you missed my point.  If there is danger of a "Christian Caliphate" in the USA, then how did Obama get elected?  Either this "Christian Caliphate" is a huge straw man or there is an actual danger.  Which is it?
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Alias,

    Already asked and answered. You just don't like the answer.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Guy Dwyer Wrote: Alias,

    Already asked and answered. You just don't like the answer.


    There is no danger of a "Christian Caliphate" in the USA.  That's the answer.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    alias Wrote:
    Guy Dwyer Wrote: Alias,

    Already asked and answered. You just don't like the answer.


    There is no danger of a "Christian Caliphate" in the USA.  That's the answer.


    Still in denial, eh?

    When right-wing televangelist Pat Robertson campaigned for the presidency in 1988 he was trying to establish Christian rule.

    That was obvious because Robertson had exposed his real agenda. For example, he falsely claimed that the Founding Fathers wanted America to be "The Land of Jesus." And he even claimed, again falsely, that the Founding Fathers did not want to establish a "wall of separation between church and state," ignoring what Thomas Jefferson had clearly written about it. (See Quotes of the Founding Fathers Regarding Religion.)

    When George W. Bush was president he claimed he was "doing God's will," appeasing the "Christian Right." And he eagerly launched a preemptive attack on Iraq because his "religious" advisers had given him a good excuse. They had told him that such a war would fulfill the prophecy in the book of Revelation about the "warring angel" and the "Euphrates river."

    In fact, Bush made a secret phone call to France (which was later revealed), claiming that his war on Iraq was against "Gog and Magog," again a reference to symbolic Christian prophecy that most Christians don't understand. (See The Real Record of George W. Bush.)

    Since then, Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, Rick Perry and Rich Santorum have followed suit, thumping their bible as they wave the flag. But fortunately, most of the American people see through their "religious" bigotry and hypocrisy.

    Nevertheless, the danger of right-wing theocratic "Christian" rule remains, and it will remain until the bigots and hypocrites are faced with the real truth regarding the intent of Jesus of Nazareth, and the intent of the Founding Fathers.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    For all those so called "religious right" folks who claim,as did Robertson,that America "used" to be a Christian nation...apparently they don't teach either history or word comprehension. America was founded on principles of certain freedoms,to wit:freedom of speech,freedom of assembly,freedom of religion.I could go on,but you get the point.We were NEVER a "Christian" nation...that by the very definition is a theocracy.We have freedom of religion,we also have,as one's own choice...freedom FROM religion.A theocracy would never permit freedom from the state sanctioned religion.(see:Iran)And that is exactly what our founding fathers wanted to avoid.We have freedom of, and we have freedom from.Go down the list.It's freedom,not compulsion.A theocracy does not permit such actions.
      I guess the point I'm trying(badly) to make...yes,there can be a "religious caliphate",but there can never be a Christian one.
      I made those points badly,didn't I? Oh well, guess that explains the lack of comments I get on my threads.Gotta start plagiarizing schmidt...lol. Good thread!
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    gymrat22 Wrote: For all those so called "religious right" folks who claim,as did Robertson,that America "used" to be a Christian nation...apparently they don't teach either history or word comprehension. America was founded on principles of certain freedoms,to wit:freedom of speech,freedom of assembly,freedom of religion.I could go on,but you get the point.We were NEVER a "Christian" nation...that by the very definition is a theocracy.We have freedom of religion,we also have,as one's own choice...freedom FROM religion.A theocracy would never permit freedom from the state sanctioned religion.(see:Iran)And that is exactly what our founding fathers wanted to avoid.We have freedom of, and we have freedom from.Go down the list.It's freedom,not compulsion.A theocracy does not permit such actions.
       I guess the point I'm trying(badly) to make...yes,there can be a "religious caliphate",but there can never be a Christian one.
       I made those points badly,didn't I? Oh well, guess that explains the lack of comments I get on my threads.Gotta start plagiarizing schmidt...lol. Good thread!


    Don't worry, you made your point very well. The only thing I would differ about is your statement that there could "never be a Christian Caliphate." And I am a bit confused about why you think there could be a "religious caliphate" but not a Christian one.

    The point I have made, which agrees with the message at http://messenger.cjcmp.org, is that America was in danger of having a "Christian Caliphate" when Pat Robertson ran for president. America DID have a "Christian Caliphate" when Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush were president, and it was in danger of having one again with the campaigns of Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, Rick Perry and Rick Santorum, because those hypocrites tried to deceive the American people about the intent of the Founding Fathers, just as Pat Robertson has.

  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Guy:


    As I read through the information on the link to "The All Faiths Coalition, Freedom, and Justice, it sounded remarkably similar to the views held by the followers of the Baha'i faith.

    In particular, my friend Dave (a Baha'i for the last 40 years) made almost exactly the same comment as the one posted below about a week ago:

    It really is not the end of the world. The tribulation and terrible things humanity has been going through, which have increased during the last hundred years, are like the gradually quickening labor pains prior to the birth of something very new into this world. And, even though some things will end so new and better things may begin, the so-called "apocalyptic end times" idea is a myth.

    In case you've forgotten, it was almost exactly a year ago that Harold Camping (of the Family Radio channel) said that the world was coming to an end. Naturally, I had a few ideas on the topic, which you can read at the link below:

    http://tohell-andback.blogspot.com/2011/05/its-end-of-world-as-we-know-it.html

    Be sure to click on the very last "hyperlink" to listen to R.E.M.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Guy Dwyer Wrote:
    alias Wrote:
    Guy Dwyer Wrote: Alias,

    Already asked and answered. You just don't like the answer.


    There is no danger of a "Christian Caliphate" in the USA.  That's the answer.


    Still in denial, eh?

    When right-wing televangelist Pat Robertson campaigned for the presidency in 1988 he was trying to establish Christian rule.

    That was obvious because Robertson had exposed his real agenda. For example, he falsely claimed that the Founding Fathers wanted America to be "The Land of Jesus." And he even claimed, again falsely, that the Founding Fathers did not want to establish a "wall of separation between church and state," ignoring what Thomas Jefferson had clearly written about it. (See Quotes of the Founding Fathers Regarding Religion.)

    When George W. Bush was president he claimed he was "doing God's will," appeasing the "Christian Right." And he eagerly launched a preemptive attack on Iraq because his "religious" advisers had given him a good excuse. They had told him that such a war would fulfill the prophecy in the book of Revelation about the "warring angel" and the "Euphrates river."

    In fact, Bush made a secret phone call to France (which was later revealed), claiming that his war on Iraq was against "Gog and Magog," again a reference to symbolic Christian prophecy that most Christians don't understand. (See The Real Record of George W. Bush.)

    Since then, Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, Rick Perry and Rich Santorum have followed suit, thumping their bible as they wave the flag. But fortunately, most of the American people see through their "religious" bigotry and hypocrisy.

    Nevertheless, the danger of right-wing theocratic "Christian" rule remains, and it will remain until the bigots and hypocrites are faced with the real truth regarding the intent of Jesus of Nazareth, and the intent of the Founding Fathers.


    Don't forget to keep the light on so the Christian boogy man doesn't get ya.  Your post reeks of Christophobic bigotry.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Certainly, there are those Christians who wish to impose their values on the rest of us, and are willing to lie, cheat, and steal to accomplish their goals.

    At the same time, there is already a de facto religious litmus test for presidency; both Obama and Romney have had to prove that they are sufficiently Christian, for truly specious reasons.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Codejack Wrote: Certainly, there are those Christians who wish to impose their values on the rest of us, and are willing to lie, cheat, and steal to accomplish their goals.

    At the same time, there is already a de facto religious litmus test for presidency; both Obama and Romney have had to prove that they are sufficiently Christian, for truly specious reasons.


    It wasn't Christians who took God out of our schools.  Christians aren't the ones imposing their beliefs of what constitutes marriage.  That would be the homosexuals who are trying to impose their beliefs of what marriage is.

  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    alias Wrote:

    It wasn't Christians who took God out of our schools. 


    No, that was the founding fathers.


    alias Wrote:
    Christians aren't the ones imposing their beliefs of what constitutes marriage. That would be the homosexuals who are trying to impose their beliefs of what marriage is.



    Who is imposing anything on you? In what possible way does 2 people you don't know getting married affect you?

    Beyond that, the opposition to homosexual marriage is fundamentally religious in nature, and so in violation of the first amendments injunction against laws respecting an establishment of religion.

    No, this is you trying to impose your outdated (and frankly detestable) morality on aeveryone else.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    alias Wrote:
    Guy Dwyer Wrote:
    alias Wrote:
    Guy Dwyer Wrote: Alias,

    Already asked and answered. You just don't like the answer.


    There is no danger of a "Christian Caliphate" in the USA.  That's the answer.


    Still in denial, eh?

    When right-wing televangelist Pat Robertson campaigned for the presidency in 1988 he was trying to establish Christian rule.

    That was obvious because Robertson had exposed his real agenda. For example, he falsely claimed that the Founding Fathers wanted America to be "The Land of Jesus." And he even claimed, again falsely, that the Founding Fathers did not want to establish a "wall of separation between church and state," ignoring what Thomas Jefferson had clearly written about it. (See Quotes of the Founding Fathers Regarding Religion.)

    When George W. Bush was president he claimed he was "doing God's will," appeasing the "Christian Right." And he eagerly launched a preemptive attack on Iraq because his "religious" advisers had given him a good excuse. They had told him that such a war would fulfill the prophecy in the book of Revelation about the "warring angel" and the "Euphrates river."

    In fact, Bush made a secret phone call to France (which was later revealed), claiming that his war on Iraq was against "Gog and Magog," again a reference to symbolic Christian prophecy that most Christians don't understand. (See The Real Record of George W. Bush.)

    Since then, Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, Rick Perry and Rich Santorum have followed suit, thumping their bible as they wave the flag. But fortunately, most of the American people see through their "religious" bigotry and hypocrisy.

    Nevertheless, the danger of right-wing theocratic "Christian" rule remains, and it will remain until the bigots and hypocrites are faced with the real truth regarding the intent of Jesus of Nazareth, and the intent of the Founding Fathers.



    Don't forget to keep the light on so the Christian boogy man doesn't get ya.  Your post reeks of Christophobic bigotry.



    Amazing. You unwittingly accuse Jesus himself, because he would say the same thing. In fact, he did say the same thing, and predicted that the modern son of man would say the same thing.

    But I can see it is fruitless to try to reason with you, or explain any more to you. So I won't.

    I hope you realize your error, and how and why you have been misled.

  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    that guy in Arizona Wrote: Guy:


    As I read through the information on the link to "The All Faiths Coalition, Freedom, and Justice, it sounded remarkably similar to the views held by the followers of the Baha'i faith.

    In particular, my friend Dave (a Baha'i for the last 40 years) made almost exactly the same comment as the one posted below about a week ago:

    It really is not the end of the world. The tribulation and terrible things humanity has been going through, which have increased during the last hundred years, are like the gradually quickening labor pains prior to the birth of something very new into this world. And, even though some things will end so new and better things may begin, the so-called "apocalyptic end times" idea is a myth.

    In case you've forgotten, it was almost exactly a year ago that Harold Camping (of the Family Radio channel) said that the world was coming to an end. Naturally, I had a few ideas on the topic, which you can read at the link below:

    http://tohell-andback.blogspot.com/2011/05/its-end-of-world-as-we-know-it.html

    Be sure to click on the very last "hyperlink" to listen to R.E.M.


    Yes, the original author of the message on the Coalition site realized what the founder of the Baha'[i faith did, and more.

    In fact, the modern "son of man" fulfills all the prophecies, including those in Isaiah Chapter 53, which is why Jesus said the son of man to come would "first be rejected by his generation and suffer many things." (And Jesus was not speaking of himself, because he was accepted by multitudes of Jews, Greeks and others in his generation, and suffered not first or beforehand, but only on the last day of his life.)

  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Codejack,

    You are right on.

    As for me, I'm just a guide wire, doing his best to direct people's attention to the most crucial message of our time.