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The 25th. Constitutional Amendment


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    The 25th. amendment, removal of the president:

    In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, the Same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by Law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.[1]

    This means that if the President is fired, dies, resigns, or is unable "to discharge [his] Powers and Duties" (unable to do the things a President has to do), the Vice President will take over their job. The Vice President will do the President's job until they get better (if they are just sick or disabled), or until the next Presidential election (if the President resigned or is dead). If neither the President nor the Vice President can do the President's job, Congress can decide who takes over the President's job. This is all the Constitution says about this subject.

    simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_...

    " Frank Bowman, a constitutional scholar at the University of Missouri, says the history of the 25th Amendment makes clear it was intended for instances in which a president is incapacitated and unable to serve, such as physical or mental illness."

    aljazeera.com/news/2021/1/7/the-25th-am...

    We'll need to watch to see if congress will try to remove Trump from office before he causes any further damage to this institution. It would take a 2/3 majority of the congress to remove Trump from office.

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    Dock:

    Even some of the Republicans in Congress are warming to the idea of invoking the 25th amendment. In addition, Ihan Omar from Minnesota is starting to draw up articles of impeachment.

    Granted, we are only 13 days from Biden's inauguration, but the events of yesterday were so outlandish that Congress should at least make an attempt to remove Trump from office before then. At the very least, he should be barred from attending the ceremony , even though it's entirely possible that he was not planning to attend anyway.

    Another issue that needs to be dealt with are the members of Congress who also supported the coup.

    At the very least, Ted Cruz and the other 12 senators who supported him should be censured. In addition, Cruz himself (as well as Josh Hawley) should be expelled from the Senate. There has also been talking of stripping Cruz's law license .

    The 100 or so Republicans in the House should also not be allowed to take their seats in the House - and I am not the first person to think of this idea.

    **********************************************************************

    I was sworn in as a member of Congress four days ago. The events of yesterday never should have happened.

    I believe the Republican members of Congress who have incited this domestic terror attack through their attempts to overturn the election must face consequences. They have broken their sacred Oath of Office.

    I will be introducing a resolution calling for their expulsion. Please sign here to show public support.

    -- Congresswoman Cori Bush

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    As I've said already for years; MAKE LAWS FOR PRESIDENTS in order to limit his/her powers. If not then this "circus" will happen over and over again. Also make "tax returns"mandatory" by law. Also an"solid" background checks should be "mandatory" as well for anyone in the government.

    If these "base" requirements are not done as an priority and no penalties are attached to these laws or rules then we just muddle on like any British colony. Ever been in Nigeria?

    May be Boris is slowly also is going to drown in the "Britisch" swamp. Everywhere the Brits had colony's it has become an mess; I hope that this country shakes the outdated British culture and governing systems. Looking last night at the counting "procedures" such is totally laughable in 2021.

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    There actually have been numerous times during Trump's presidency that invoking the 25th amendment has been discussed, and they are listed in the link below:

    https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/2021/01/06/25th-amendment-what-know-removing-president/6572157002/

    Here's a key phrase in the article:

    Late former Sen. Birch Bayh wrote in his book “One Heartbeat Away: Presidential Disability and Succession” that he knew the most controversial aspect of the amendment he authored would be how to handle the rare instances when a president’s team disputed his ability to serve.

    “You know, fellows, we've talked about this problem a hundred times,” Bayh recounted, telling his aides when they were in the final stages of negotiation. “The only time it would present itself – the only time the president would say 'I'm well and able' and the vice president and cabinet would disagree – would be if the president was as nutty as a fruit cake.”

    Nutty as a fruit cake.

    That sounds like Trump.

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    Impeachment would be tough, not enough time, but if Pence has the guts and nerve, he should lead the charge for implementing the 25th..
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    Republican lawmakers are praying that Pence will turn on Trump and evoke the 25th amendment. Extremely unlikely Pence will throw The Donald under the bus unless Trump starts punching in nuclear codes.

    Here is deal that Trump will be offered by Republicans that come to him; The Nixon Deal:

    * Resign immediately.
    * Pence becomes president.
    * Pence immediately pardons Donald Trump for all federal crimes Trump has committed over the course of his lifetime.

    The question becomes will Trump take that deal? With Trump, who knows. Trump can fuck up even the best of deals. But he knows that he needs a pardon very very badly because of his failed coup attempt.

    Got to wonder what he was thinking was going to happen on Jan 6th. Was his fantasy that all 73 million voters would show up and force congress to overturn the election and he be appointed president for life? For certain, the reality of what happened didn't even enter his mind. What a fuckup from start to finish.

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    The tricky part of the 25th Amendment is that it required the Vice President and a majority of the cabinet to invoke it. So far, two members of the cabinet (Elaine Chao and Betsy) DeVos have resigned so that they would not have to vote against Trump. There have also been a dizzying number of resignations in other areas as well, and one of those is Mick Mulvaney.

    Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao, wife of Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. She says she's resigning Monday because of yesterday's shameful episode, but her departure also takes her off the hook for a decision on whether to join in a Trump removal effort.

    Here's a list of the people who are leaving:


    -- Mick Mulvaney, Trump's former chief of staff who's been a special envoy to Northern Ireland

    -- Deputy National Security Adviser Matt Pottinger

    -- Stephanie Grisham, Melania's chief of staff and Trump's former communications chief

    -- White House deputy press secretary Sarah Matthews

    -- White House Social Secretary Rickie Niceta

    -- Tyler Goodspeed, acting chair of the White House Council of Economic Advisers

    -- Ryan Tully, senior director for European and Russian affairs on the National Security Council

    Assistant Attorney General Eric Dreiband also announced he is resigning tomorrow, but it was unclear whether it's related to the riot.


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    wwjd Wrote:

    Republican lawmakers are praying that Pence will turn on Trump and evoke the 25th amendment. Extremely unlikely Pence will throw The Donald under the bus unless Trump starts punching in nuclear codes.

    Here is deal that Trump will be offered by Republicans that come to him; The Nixon Deal:

    * Resign immediately.
    * Pence becomes president.
    * Pence immediately pardons Donald Trump for all federal crimes Trump has committed over the course of his lifetime.

    The question becomes will Trump take that deal? With Trump, who knows. Trump can fuck up even the best of deals. But he knows that he needs a pardon very very badly because of his failed coup attempt.

    Got to wonder what he was thinking was going to happen on Jan 6th. Was his fantasy that all 73 million voters would show up and force congress to overturn the election and he be appointed president for life? For certain, the reality of what happened didn't even enter his mind. What a fuckup from start to finish.

    Dock:

    The Wall Street Journal, which has generally been supportive of Trump, posted an editorial yesterday that encouraged him to resign.

    “If Mr. Trump wants to avoid a second impeachment, his best path would be to take personal responsibility and resign,” The Journal wrote, concluding, “It is best for everyone, himself included, if he goes away quietly.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/business/wall-street-journal-trump-resign.html?action=click&module=Latest&pgtype=Homepage

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    The president should resign immediately. But even if he does, Congress must hold him accountable for sedition.

    The best immediate outcome, by far, would be for Trump’s close political allies to convince him to resign and let Vice President Mike Pence finish out the remainder of the term, which ends at noon on Jan. 20. That is not likely to occur. But they should point out to him that if he resigns now, while accepting responsibility for Wednesday’s disaster, he would at least soften the dark verdict history will render on his presidency.

    The fact that any of these conversations need to occur — the fact that serious people in Washington have had to consider once-unthinkable constitutional fail-safes like the 25th Amendment — is the direct result of four years in which Trump’s fellow Republicans allowed him to disregard laws, degrade norms, and debase his office.

    The House impeached Trump once, and must do so again — whether or not he leaves before Jan. 20. And this time, the Senate must convict him.

    Impeachment would also disqualify Trump from running again in 2024 — something invoking the 25th Amendment would not accomplish — thus sparing the country the possibility of a return to the chaos and criminality of the last four years. It would also neuter some of Trump’s post-Inauguration Day political organizing and fund-raising power, which could weaken his disinformation campaigns and his dog whistles of white supremacist violence.

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/01/07/opinion/impeach-trump-again-now/

    Pelosi and House Democrats will hold a noon conference call Friday to talk about their options for expelling Trump from office. Many caucus members seem bent on impeaching him if the 25th Amendment is not triggered, but few days are left before Trump leaves office, and for any impeachment hearings and a Senate impeachment trial.

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    Yes, only a few days left, and what to do, time is short.

    Now we understand why Dutch believes we need laws governing presidential abuses of power, and changes to laws we have on the books now. I for one am in agreement with all of his posts on this subject.

    I just read a headline where Pelosi and some other lawmakers are contacting the DOD and/or the pentagon to rein in Trump's ability to access nuclear weapons codes, should Trump go full bore crazy. We all should believe that Trump IS a dangerous leader right now, until he leaves office. History will remember that Mike Pence was a do nothing VP.

    nbcnews.com/politics/congress/speaker-p...

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    Yes, Dock I appreciate your reply. It should be clear by now that our laws need lots of "fixing". Also the "3" solutions cooked up by Pelosi, already have proven that none of them will work, even the "impeachment" one will be blocked by McConnell right now. If this "show" is done starting on the 19th as he wants, then forget it. Also if an "impeachment" could take place regardless of Mc Connell, then as an writer on Facebook wrote, then "automatically" part of it should be, that he will loose his pension and all "benefits". But yeah as long s Mc Connell blocks these things, then the only option is to "kick" Mc Connell out sooner than January 20th; after that he will be an lame duck anyway (I hope). But then even if such works, then the "votes" required in the Senate may not be sufficient. Thus actually the whole thing will not work anyway.

    The only option is to shoot the SOB. Yes this country has painted itself completely in the "corner"; laws for Presidents should be the same as it applies to common citizens. If not, then you get the "shit" as we are in now.

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    Since Pence is not going to invoke the 25th Amendment, and since Trump is not going to resign, it seems like the only alternative is impeachment - but there is another alternative.

    Censure.

    Censure, a formal congressional condemnation, has been successfully invoked against sitting presidents. While admittedly symbolic, it is what is needed at this moment: an immediate bipartisan judgment that is strong, unequivocal, indelible and undeniable, a clear judgment that Trump’s conduct was a profound betrayal of both his duty and the basic legal rules of our democratic republic. Different courses of action toward this goal are available, but only censure holds any real chance of imminent success.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/david-kendall-censure-trump-congress/2021/01/10/9bed6330-537f-11eb-a08b-f1381ef3d207_story.html

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    Not only that; if it works?. Also he should get no pension or protection and no government paid healthcare. Censure without "penalties" is worthless. Furthermore he should be "banned" from ever running again for any government job.

    As always the Dem's are acting way too weak; when are they going to learn on how to attack the "mob"?

    I just about wed that Trump will "walk out" free and clear, with his pockets filled and ready to be an royal pain in the butt for Biden and the Dem's for a long time to come. Unless the Southern District of N.Y. does its job and gets him in "jail".

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    I also saw on the news that he's flying to the southern Texas border; there was no explanation "why". If so then he's likely visiting the "wall" contractors, to pick up the "cheque" for his "commission". What else has he to do there? Free the poor "children" from their "cages"? If we had an "solid" government then he should have been "banned" from flying any place on Government owned equipment unless approved by the government.
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    Dutch:

    Looks like the trip to Texas is not going to happen.

    Did President Trump board an E-4b Command Post to fly to the National Military Command Center in Abilene, Texas on the evening of January 6, 2021? No, that's not true: President Trump was in Washington, D.C. on January 6 and 7. He delivered a mid-day address to supporters in Washington on January 6, and he delivered a video message from inside the White House. An Abilene newspaper also confirmed that the president was not there.

    This rumor about President Trump flying to Texas may have originated from attorney Lin Wood who has been a prominent figure driving many conspiracies about the US election. Wood's Twitter account was suspended on January 7, 2021 as reported by thehill.com, "Twitter permanently removes pro-Trump lawyer Lin Wood from platform." The screenshot below spanning three social media platforms, was posted by a Facebook user(archived here) on January 6, 2020. It shows a Lin Wood post on Parler, sharing a cropped anonymized screenshot of a tweet. Wood's introduction says:

    https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2021/01/fact-check-president-did-not-boards-e4b-command-post-flying-to-nmcc-abilene-tx.html