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The Democratic Party and Black Lives Matter

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    TG Tarheel Wrote:
    Dockadams Wrote:

    I am pissed off and actively looking for somewhere else to live. This place sucks. Kenosha sucks.

    Well....as a native Chicagoan by birth who is used to banging on Wisconsin...I won't argue that with ya. :-)

    But in all seriousness...I THOUGHT Southeastern Wisconsin....was more liberal than this?? For real...what am I missing?

    I THOUGHT...that if you drop a 45 degree angle line southwest from Milwaukee to the Illinois line, thus incorporating Madison...that whole area thus defined was actually pretty damned liberal!

    I dunno...you still have one of the best Senators in the country in Tammy Baldwin there.

    I think the problem here with the cops is the language of "defund the police." NOBODY is saying they should lose all funding...just the extra funding that allows them to buy all those deadly toys they then turn on the citizenry. At the same time, it also says...take way from police responsibility...thing they are not trained for...and use the money savings to hire people who ARE trained to deal with those situations, e.g mental health crises, domestic disputes, etc. And leave police to uphold the actual law.

    Police are good enforcers. They aren't good peacekeepers.

    Police are good enforcers? What does that mean? Police are poorly trained in the aggregate. People in service jobs are required to have many more hours of training and must keep up their licenses with periodic education.

    Ask yourself why is it that so many so-called traffic stops (read: revenue stream) end in violence. Ask yourself what the history of the concept of policing is. Who are the power holders? What is their motivation in regards to directing the police? Why did police have the so-called silent wall? What are the motivations for an individual becoming a policeman?

    Btw, don’t let being exhausted keep you away. I appreciate your being here.

  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    lonely bird Wrote:
    TG Tarheel Wrote:
    Dockadams Wrote:

    I am pissed off and actively looking for somewhere else to live. This place sucks. Kenosha sucks.

    Well....as a native Chicagoan by birth who is used to banging on Wisconsin...I won't argue that with ya. :-)

    But in all seriousness...I THOUGHT Southeastern Wisconsin....was more liberal than this?? For real...what am I missing?

    I THOUGHT...that if you drop a 45 degree angle line southwest from Milwaukee to the Illinois line, thus incorporating Madison...that whole area thus defined was actually pretty damned liberal!

    I dunno...you still have one of the best Senators in the country in Tammy Baldwin there.

    I think the problem here with the cops is the language of "defund the police." NOBODY is saying they should lose all funding...just the extra funding that allows them to buy all those deadly toys they then turn on the citizenry. At the same time, it also says...take way from police responsibility...thing they are not trained for...and use the money savings to hire people who ARE trained to deal with those situations, e.g mental health crises, domestic disputes, etc. And leave police to uphold the actual law.

    Police are good enforcers. They aren't good peacekeepers.

    Police are good enforcers? What does that mean? Police are poorly trained in the aggregate. People in service jobs are required to have many more hours of training and must keep up their licenses with periodic education.

    Ask yourself why is it that so many so-called traffic stops (read: revenue stream) end in violence. Ask yourself what the history of the concept of policing is. Who are the power holders? What is their motivation in regards to directing the police? Why did police have the so-called silent wall? What are the motivations for an individual becoming a policeman?

    Btw, don’t let being exhausted keep you away. I appreciate your being here.

    My point is police are SUPPOSED to enforce the law, so presumably, they are trained to do that.

    They are NOT trained to do about everything else we ask them to do.

    I never said I agreed with some of their tactics...or some of the motivations behind certain kinds of enforcement.

    But we ask them to deal with situations they are NOT trained to handle, and that also takes away from the enforcement mission, too. We need to train them to uphold the law only...and do it in a way that does not harm or alienate the public they are supposed to serve and protect. Let trained professionals deal with mental-health crises and domestic disputes.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    TG Tarheel Wrote:
    lonely bird Wrote:
    TG Tarheel Wrote:
    Dockadams Wrote:

    I am pissed off and actively looking for somewhere else to live. This place sucks. Kenosha sucks.

    Well....as a native Chicagoan by birth who is used to banging on Wisconsin...I won't argue that with ya. :-)

    But in all seriousness...I THOUGHT Southeastern Wisconsin....was more liberal than this?? For real...what am I missing?

    I THOUGHT...that if you drop a 45 degree angle line southwest from Milwaukee to the Illinois line, thus incorporating Madison...that whole area thus defined was actually pretty damned liberal!

    I dunno...you still have one of the best Senators in the country in Tammy Baldwin there.

    I think the problem here with the cops is the language of "defund the police." NOBODY is saying they should lose all funding...just the extra funding that allows them to buy all those deadly toys they then turn on the citizenry. At the same time, it also says...take way from police responsibility...thing they are not trained for...and use the money savings to hire people who ARE trained to deal with those situations, e.g mental health crises, domestic disputes, etc. And leave police to uphold the actual law.

    Police are good enforcers. They aren't good peacekeepers.

    Police are good enforcers? What does that mean? Police are poorly trained in the aggregate. People in service jobs are required to have many more hours of training and must keep up their licenses with periodic education.

    Ask yourself why is it that so many so-called traffic stops (read: revenue stream) end in violence. Ask yourself what the history of the concept of policing is. Who are the power holders? What is their motivation in regards to directing the police? Why did police have the so-called silent wall? What are the motivations for an individual becoming a policeman?

    Btw, don’t let being exhausted keep you away. I appreciate your being here.

    My point is police are SUPPOSED to enforce the law, so presumably, they are trained to do that.

    They are NOT trained to do about everything else we ask them to do.

    I never said I agreed with some of their tactics...or some of the motivations behind certain kinds of enforcement.

    But we ask them to deal with situations they are NOT trained to handle, and that also takes away from the enforcement mission, too. We need to train them to uphold the law only...and do it in a way that does not harm or alienate the public they are supposed to serve and protect. Let trained professionals deal with mental-health crises and domestic disputes.

    Presumed. It certainly seems to appear that they are not trained to enforce the law. In point of opinion, they are trained, to a hugely varying degree, to perform revenue stream maintenance (traffic stops) and catch criminals with criminals and criminality defined as what power holders define crime to be. There is no such thing as a justice system because justice is a social construct that is again defined by power holders. What there is is a retribution system. When added to the school to prison pipeline and privatization those who lack power will always fall prey to retribution.

    As for situations they are not trained to handle you are spot on. Some places have attempted to change this and had some success. It is interesting to note that white kids are taught that the policeman is their friend whereas Black children are given “the talk” about dealing with police.

    This country is steeped, it is waist deep, in racism. Racism underpinned the founding. It underpinned expansion. And it underpins virtually everything that goes on. Equal treatment under the law is basically impossible because the law itself is flawed. This flaw, this massive flaw, flows down hill through to the sanctioned violence arm of the retribution system, the police. Individual police persons may not be racist but that is irrelevant due to the presence of racist colleagues and racist driven machinery.

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    Lonely, I wrote many times about what is wrong here, but it does not seems to sink in. Since such job requires lots of "human interface" then the "hiring process" is where the problem starts. Also since that this is an complicated country with all kinds of weirdo's etc. then these persons should have "psychological" training related to deal with all kinds of people.

    It should be an "service" job not be an "bully" job; intimidation with lots of weapons and "gear" never works, but makes people only more angry as is the case now. The hiring process is the culprit, so improve that.

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    Obviously, the Kentucky AG is bought, paid for and influenced by none other than "TURTLEFACE" Mitch McConnell, he should be ashamed to have a Irish name, and should be ashamed his strong arm actions resulted in an appointment of a black AG who is actually Mitch's Oreo.

    BTW, McConnell is the one who pushed the nomination of Jeff Sessions.

    In other news, Rev. Jesse Jackson visited Kenosha yesterday and peacefully marched with about 2000 protesters.

    More news, the 17 year old punk that shot 3 protesters and killed 2 had his extradition hearing today in Lake County, Illinois, and nothing was resolved, it's like his hearing was continued. He is fighting extradition to Wisconsin because if convicted of murder, he might be sentenced to life imprisonment.

    More news, a former Kenosha alderman and some of the militia group the Kenosha Guard are being sued by the victim's families of who Rittenhouse shot.

    We haven't heard too much from democrats on the BLM front, but I'm hoping my governor here says something about this situation in this city.

    I don't think our government, federal, state and local are interested in dealing with police reforms right now, even though people are protesting and rioting to try to bring about change. What are lawmakers waiting for? Towns to burn to the ground? Nobody is doing anything.

    BTW, my local police departments endorsing a republican? I think the Kenosha Sheriff and the Kenosha police chief both should be fired for allowing people from elsewhere to come here and practice their militia tactics on our property and our citizens. What did the police departments think? That nobody was going to riot and burn?? They all need history lessons!

    Our leaders are dumbshits!

  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    TJ Wrote:
    Dockadams Wrote:

    Kenosha just went dark again yesterday, sheriff's department/s endorsed Brian Steil (R) for reelection of Wisconsin's first district. We're going the wrong way folks. This community is not interested in healing wounds suffered by a cop who shot a black guy in the back 7 fucking times, instead, they're going along with this law and order bullshit. Steil's recently televised campaign ad said he would not defund police, which means white supremacists might be running our local PD's. Nobody in this community ever called for defunding the police departments, Steil is engaging in dog whistle politics.

    If cops would have done their jobs properly, Kenosha would not have burned, .....

    I am pissed off and actively looking for somewhere else to live. This place sucks. Kenosha sucks.

    I am sorry there are lingering negative issues. I agree that so many things are done wrong with the police. It's not a master tool to fix all problems. We need a national dialogue to discuss areas that need improvement. Call an emergency squad if it's a mental health issue.

    Instead of defunding the police, the approach should say we don't want all cops to be responsible for 1000 things. Instead be responsible for 400 things and someone else can get the cat out of a tree.

    If you're going to move, follow your hearts. Being close to family is important to me but there's many factors to consider. Oregon seems like a good place except for Portland because of rioting. Avoid forest fires too. Blue state will weigh into my future choices.

    You know, if I were not a gutless wimp, I'd make up a sign and go picket/boycott that business to try to sway people/potential customers from buying any services they have to offer. But, I'm afraid of getting arrested for trespassing or disorderly conduct. At 67 y.o., I don't need to start a police record.

    Those assholes don't wear masks or follow state mandates either. They ought to be shut down.

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    Yes Dock, you just show only "one" of the screwed up things in this country. looking at the total picture right now, it is getting worse by the day and surpasses even any S.American country. Our great "leader" starts also looking more like an Putin or Maduro, so of course there is nothing wrong with his country. We "think" we are still number one to dictate the world, but forget it. Since Trump still thinks this is the "Apprentice" show what do you expect anyway. Sorry this country has had its time as any other country which did rise; now is it the turn for others to rise, like China. Bye bye USA.

    Sorry to say that this is an self inflicted wound; the system here is broken beyond repair.

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    Another cop in Wisconsin just got let off the hook for shooting another young black man, it's his third shooting in 5 years. Wisconsinites are rioting again. Meanwhile, the Wisconsin republican led legislature is idle, doing nothing in the way of police reforms.

    "MADISON, Wis. — An independent investigator is recommending officials in a Milwaukee suburb fire a police officer who has shot and killed three people in the last five years."

    channel3000.com/investigator-wisconsin-...

    Steven M. Biskupic

    "Steven M. Biskupic (Croatian: Biskupic) (born March 26, 1961) is a former U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Wisconsin serving under Attorneys General John Ashcroft, Alberto Gonzales and Michael Mukasey. He was appointed by George W. Bush in May 2002. Prior to his appointment, Biskupic served as an Assistant U.S. Attorney for 13 years, specializing in the prosecution of white-collar crime. Biskupic stepped down in 2008."

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_M._Biskupic