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The Democratic Party and Black Lives Matter


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  • Schmidt
    2020-06-14 12:40:37 AM
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    The Black Lives Matter movement must be commended for mobilizing a global response to not only police brutality at the expense of Blacks around the world, but also the racial systemic inequities that have replaced slavery. While the Democratic Party has benefited as a whole from the movement, some of the BLM demands might seem too extreme for the establishment of the party. Defunding police has stirred controversy as has the bringing down of statues across the country.

    The Washington Post addresses the problem when the party's wide umbrella is not wide enough to cover everyone when it pours.

    New generation of activists, deeply skeptical of Democratic Party, resists calls to channel energy into the 2020 campaign

    The most avid of the protest movement is not looking for a partnership with the Democratic Party. From the above WP article:

    "Democrats have so far failed to tap into the newly emerging protest movement, even turning off some activists who see early outreach efforts as hollow gestures, according to interviews with more than a dozen organizers who have been leading protests across the country in recent weeks. Many said they remain deeply skeptical of the traditional political system and the Democratic Party, which they said has a history of promising change and falling short."

    Even James Clyburn, the House Majority Whip and highest-ranking African American in the House is not immune to criticism. However, he notes that many of the protesters are "too quick to criticize people who seek to enact social change in a different way — or at a different pace".

    “We all have a role to play,” he said. “My role is to pass legislation and count votes. You can’t reject my role because it doesn’t go as fast as you want it.”

    “What does it get us for anybody to be insulting to Nancy Pelosi,” Clyburn added later, referring to the House speaker who, along with other lawmakers, appeared in kente cloth. “We asked Nancy Pelosi to identify with us, to carry water for us. She made a gesture that identifies with us and we insult her.”

    In a sense the demands of the most militant of the BLM movement are similar to the far left progressive movement that wants change NOW and are not willing to wait until the next election. While much of that change is indeed happening, for some it is not enough and not happening fast enough. What they are talking is the language of revolution while the fires are hot. Waiting until November might cool those embers.

    The problem for the Democratic Party leadership and Joe Biden is to somehow make that umbrella wider to cover the parts of society that have not had a big voice in the party, in large part because many choose to stay at home on election day.

    Thoughts?

  • Dockadams
    2020-06-14 07:02:49 AM
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    The democratic party has been pandering to minority groups for many years now, and legislation to make things right or make things better for them has been piece-meal. There hasn't been any sweeping legislation written or passed since the 1960's.

    American lawmakers, both D and R have allowed police departments to run away or run amok with their authority and militarize the law enforcement portions of our government, state, local and federal. The end result has been disparaging excessive use of force on it's citizens. Especially minorities.

  • Schmidt
    2020-06-14 07:21:18 AM
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    Yes, there is something to be said about disbanding police forces and starting all over again. As Dutch has pointed out, our police forces have become too militaristic pulling retired military folks into their ranks. Military training is not the best training for a city that wants to do more community policing. Furthermore, many police forces in major cities have evolved into protection rackets in which their members can do no wrong. One can understand that mentality when the policemen's union has endorsed Trump because of his "law and order, tough on crime talk". Trump, of course, is pandering to that demographic, but he believes it well. He pardoned that Arizona sheriff, Joe Arpaio.
  • Dutch
    2020-06-15 11:42:40 AM
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    Yes Schmidt, none of my suggestions even hit home on TV or in the brains here etc. So the "shit" will stay the same as you say that they also got an hoard of military "arms"; thus we have become the "enemy". Why is it for this that difficult to start analyzing things from the "start"; it is here always putting an "patch" on things until the next "patch" till it falls totally apart. Shaking my old tired head. Everything in this country is done in an ad-hoc way without any thinking ahead. Just watch out in November then the "shit" will hit the fan. Duck!!!
  • Schmidt
    2020-06-15 11:23:24 PM
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    A Black Lives Matter leader has come out strongly opposed to Val Demings as a VP choice:

    “Joe Biden would be an idiot to put her on his ticket. People are already on the fence about him,” Newsome told The Post. “When black people become police officers, they are no longer black. They are blue. And I have been told this by numerous officers.”

    Demings would normally be high on Biden's VP list, but because she was once a police chief it makes her an "enemy" for some in the BLM movement. The same probably applies to Kamala Harris for her role as attorney general of California. It is the BLM movement that is applying purity tests to candidates, but they should be careful...applying too many tests they might by default end up with Trump and Pence again in 2020.

  • that guy in AZ
    2020-09-15 10:17:03 AM
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    Fortunately, the country is actually making progress on this issue:

    The city of Louisville, Kentucky, has settled a wrongful-death lawsuit filed by the family of Breonna Taylor, the 26-year-old black EMT gunned down by cops during a botched raid in her apartment, according to reports.

    The “substantial” financial settlement is expected to be announced at a 2 p.m. press conference at Mayor Greg Fischer’s office, with Taylor’s family and attorneys Ben Crump, Sam Aguilar and Lonita Baker, the Courier Journal reported.

    https://nypost.com/2020/09/15/louisville-settles-breonna-taylors-wrongful-death-lawsuit/

  • Dutch
    2020-09-15 11:01:23 AM
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    "Money" settlements don't take away the issues.The families here still suffer their loss, which cannot be healed with money alone. Sorry to say this country needs "structural reform" to prevent these things instead of the easy way out with "pay-off's"

  • TG Tarheel
    2020-09-15 02:43:03 PM
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    Schmidt Wrote:

    The Black Lives Matter movement must be commended for mobilizing a global response to not only police brutality at the expense of Blacks around the world, but also the racial systemic inequities that have replaced slavery. While the Democratic Party has benefited as a whole from the movement, some of the BLM demands might seem too extreme for the establishment of the party. Defunding police has stirred controversy as has the bringing down of statues across the country.

    The Washington Post addresses the problem when the party's wide umbrella is not wide enough to cover everyone when it pours.

    New generation of activists, deeply skeptical of Democratic Party, resists calls to channel energy into the 2020 campaign

    The most avid of the protest movement is not looking for a partnership with the Democratic Party. From the above WP article:

    "Democrats have so far failed to tap into the newly emerging protest movement, even turning off some activists who see early outreach efforts as hollow gestures, according to interviews with more than a dozen organizers who have been leading protests across the country in recent weeks. Many said they remain deeply skeptical of the traditional political system and the Democratic Party, which they said has a history of promising change and falling short."

    Even James Clyburn, the House Majority Whip and highest-ranking African American in the House is not immune to criticism. However, he notes that many of the protesters are "too quick to criticize people who seek to enact social change in a different way — or at a different pace".

    “We all have a role to play,” he said. “My role is to pass legislation and count votes. You can’t reject my role because it doesn’t go as fast as you want it.”

    “What does it get us for anybody to be insulting to Nancy Pelosi,” Clyburn added later, referring to the House speaker who, along with other lawmakers, appeared in kente cloth. “We asked Nancy Pelosi to identify with us, to carry water for us. She made a gesture that identifies with us and we insult her.”

    In a sense the demands of the most militant of the BLM movement are similar to the far left progressive movement that wants change NOW and are not willing to wait until the next election. While much of that change is indeed happening, for some it is not enough and not happening fast enough. What they are talking is the language of revolution while the fires are hot. Waiting until November might cool those embers.

    The problem for the Democratic Party leadership and Joe Biden is to somehow make that umbrella wider to cover the parts of society that have not had a big voice in the party, in large part because many choose to stay at home on election day.

    Thoughts?

    Good opening post. As a transgender woman, BOY HOWDY can I relate with feeling that there are those in the Party "who will not change fast enough to suit us."

    The way WE see it...WE ARE DYING NOW...and we cannot wait. THEY do not see it that way, because it is NOT THEM that are doing the dying! It is not a matter of "not changing fast enough to suit us" it is about saving as many lives as we can!! Our lives are imperiled every day...admittedly, by different things than what imperils the lives of BLM activists, and black people in general. But there is definitely a parallel...and I can sure understand how it feels to many that a deaf ear is being presented to the cries for justice.

    I have come to find that change comes quicker on small, personal scales rather than on large, political scales. So you ask those who claim allyship with you...to back up that allyship....to walk with you...and to ACT on what they say they believe...if not on large scales, at least on smaller scales, and you build on it. The young - frankly - are too impatient. They see only the end goal, and not the stepping stones along the way.

    The goal is frankly too far from where we now stand to make it in one giant leap. We need those stepping stones. As frustrating as they can be. I fully sympathize with and understand where the activists are coming from...but I have the benefit of experience they do not. Once, that was respected...when WE came out as young activists...we looked up to and respected those who came before us. This is something missing in today's young activists...they do NOT look up to us, respect us, or appreciate the battles we fought that got them as far as they are now...because they do not know our history or remember a time when it was far, far worse.

    So I am in the middle...a burning passion for justice tempered by some wisdom, experience and pragmatism....al things the young lack....and will,,with time and experience, acquire. But you can't even speak to them...we have a totally different language...and if you are over thirty, and do not 100 percent agree with them 100 percent of the time...they hate you, write you off, and call you a racist. You can't work with people like that. The young are shooting their own feet.
  • TG Tarheel
    2020-09-15 02:48:25 PM
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    Dockadams Wrote:

    The democratic party has been pandering to minority groups for many years now, and legislation to make things right or make things better for them has been piece-meal. There hasn't been any sweeping legislation written or passed since the 1960's.

    American lawmakers, both D and R have allowed police departments to run away or run amok with their authority and militarize the law enforcement portions of our government, state, local and federal. The end result has been disparaging excessive use of force on it's citizens. Especially minorities.

    Very true. And the piece-meal approach is frustrating to those who cannot take small victories, and will settle only for the large victory right NOW even while it is unobtainable. What needs to happen is for young activists to prioritize the things that MUST happen now...and the ones that are not as dire. They lack the experience to make that sort of nuance.

    Consider my 25 plus years of activism in my own trans community. I was laser-focused on EMPLOYMENT EMPLOYMENT EMPLOYMENT. Without economic justice, there is no justice was my argument...so the smaller things like housing, public accommodations, and, yes, bathrooms...could be dealt wih on a more piecemeal basis...but the EMPLOYMENT had to come now. It took 25 years for Bostock to become the law of the land. Now that it is, my next major focus area is HEALTHCARE.

    We must enjoy the same access to healthcare, especially life-saving healthcare...that our cisgender and straight counterparts enjoy...it must not be allowed to withhold healthcare, especially life-saving healthcare...form us simply because of who we are.

    So my advice to the BLM...if they would listen (see above) would be to prioritze those things that MUST be addressed now...and which things can be addressed piecemeal, later on...and the Dem Party...must show good faith in this area. There's room for BOTH to improve the relationship.
  • TG Tarheel
    2020-09-15 02:50:27 PM
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    Schmidt Wrote: Yes, there is something to be said about disbanding police forces and starting all over again. As Dutch has pointed out, our police forces have become too militaristic pulling retired military folks into their ranks. Military training is not the best training for a city that wants to do more community policing. Furthermore, many police forces in major cities have evolved into protection rackets in which their members can do no wrong. One can understand that mentality when the policemen's union has endorsed Trump because of his "law and order, tough on crime talk". Trump, of course, is pandering to that demographic, but he believes it well. He pardoned that Arizona sheriff, Joe Arpaio.
    The better idea is to quit putting onto the police...things they are not trained or equipped to handle...and hire people who ARE trained and equipped...to deal with these situations. And THAT is what "defund the police" is or should be about. It should be about reducing the funds tot he police to fund other programs and other professionals...AND taking off their shoulders responsibility and cost...for things that they are ill-equipped and untrained to handle.
  • Dutch
    2020-09-16 08:41:11 AM
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    No, start at "A" look at the whole picture. First of all the "hiring process" there is where the problem starts. I wrote many times about that. No hiring of ex-Army; they are trained to kill and "bully'. Do extensive tests on the one's you hire. Do the training based on "mental" human interfaces and issues; not only how to shoot or handcuff people for nothing. Do also the same tests on existing personal and "leaders". As well toss the "bad apples" out. Thus an top down approach all the way.
  • that guy in AZ
    2020-09-16 01:09:43 PM
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    Dutch Wrote: "Money" settlements don't take away the issues.The families here still suffer their loss, which cannot be healed with money alone. Sorry to say this country needs "structural reform" to prevent these things instead of the easy way out with "pay-off's"

    Dutch:

    You're right. Money alone won't solve the problem, but the family of Breonna Taylor was just awarded $12 million, which should take away some of the sting. On top of that, though, the city also agreed to reform police practices.

    https://apnews.com/42df1f3ebea59ff20a309b8fe04619df

  • Dockadams
    2020-09-16 01:53:32 PM
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    Cities, counties and states must first admit there is a policing problem. Some, or most IMHO do not and have not.

    Doc's brief history: an NIASE certified automotive technician.

    Doc's Experiences: A person came to me one day many years ago with a drive-ability problem on a car. According to the complaint, the car goes down the road, sputters, and then stalls out. The owner says that the car will start and run fine right after these occurrences without problems for days and days, then it happens again. As a technician, I defined this as an intermittent drive-ability problem, some of these types are often very difficult to diagnose and fix.

    I take the car in to try to locate and fix the problem. I had the car for five days, and drove the hell out of it, and could not duplicate the owner's problem. I call and tell the owner I couldn't find the problem, and the owner tells me I'm the third technician to tell them that, and she's not imagining anything, the car does what she says it does. She says well, bring the car over to me and I'll give you a ride back to your shop. Okay, sounds good. I arrive at her home, she gets in the driver seat and heads back to my shop, on the way there, the car takes a crap. She looks over at me and says, "see what I mean!" Alright! Message received! A internal combustion engine needs about 4 things to run. Take away any one of the four, and it will not go anywhere. I acknowledged there was a problem with the car. I needed to immediately diagnose the problem right then and there, if not, the car would start and run again for days and the problem would reoccur.

    The point I'm making is that civic leaders must first acknowledge that there IS a problem with police in general. For civic leaders to not listen or turn their backs on what citizens are telling them is so wrong.

    As an example of this, one Kenosha County county member decided to turn her back on constituents invited to a session where council members would openly listen to gripes and complaints from local citizens. Earlier this summer, she made a statement that there was NO systemic racism.

    kenoshanews.com/news/local/speakers-cal...

    " Those who spoke at the public podium at the Job Center were incensed that one supervisor had her back turned the entire two-hour citizen comment portion of the meeting. "

    I looked this person up doing a Google search, this is what I found, draw your own conclusions from my post.

    " Republican Party of Kenosha County Chairman, 1st Congressional District Republican Party Board Member "

    " County Board Supervisor since 2010 "

    kenoshanews.com/news/erin-decker/articl...

    I say if a person is not part of the solution, they must be part of the problem. Most republicans are in denial when it comes to systemic racism and policing the police.

    Here's a Frontline documentary:

  • TG Tarheel
    2020-09-16 08:58:04 PM
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    that guy in AZ Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: "Money" settlements don't take away the issues.The families here still suffer their loss, which cannot be healed with money alone. Sorry to say this country needs "structural reform" to prevent these things instead of the easy way out with "pay-off's"

    Dutch:

    You're right. Money alone won't solve the problem, but the family of Breonna Taylor was just awarded $12 million, which should take away some of the sting. On top of that, though, the city also agreed to reform police practices.

    https://apnews.com/42df1f3ebea59ff20a309b8fe04619df

    Not all military folks are unfit to be police officers. That's a broad-brush statement I categorically reject.

    Incidentally...exactly WHO decides who is fit and who is not? Who decides what the standards are?

    You're offering platitudes and not real solutions, because what you are offering are "solutions" with loopholes so big you could drive a Mack truck through them.
  • TG Tarheel
    2020-09-16 09:10:44 PM
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    Dock...the first step in correcting a problem...is admitting that there IS one. Even admitting there MIGHT be one would be a step in the right direction.

    Now...when someone comes to me, or speaks at a meeting where I am present...and says they do not feel heard or valued....that they do not feel represented...I ask two questions.

    1. WHY do you not feel heard/valued/represented?
    And LET THEM SPEAK. Let them tell you what is bothering them. Don't judge it, JUST LISTEN.

    2. You said X, Y and Z were problems. How can I help?

    That starts the conversation. At this point, it is also okay to bring up some concerns with the things they have said - AFTER you have listened to them...and made them feel heard and cared about. But don't turn it into an all-purpose excuse to do nothing.

    Look at the things that can be done relatively easily and quickly...and which will have the most impact. Prioritize doing those things as a show of good faith and building the trust relationship. If your efforts and interest is sincere, they will respond.

    They are angry, but they are not unreasonable or intractable.

    Obviously, you can't hit a switch and fire the entire police department and then re-hire all new people with the right training, etc...that is something that takes time to do.

    I would try to pick out a representative of the police...and the person - and try to get them talking directly to each other...with me there only to facilitate that conversation.

    Much of the problems of society are a result of the failure of people to LISTEN.

    Fun fact: LISTEN anagrammed spells SILENT
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