Forum Thread

Bernie and Elizabeth can save us

Reply to ThreadDisplaying 1 - 15 of 24 1 2 Next
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        

    On occasion, I'll watch one of Robert Reich's videos on YouTube, and I am always impressed by his logic.

    In mid-December, he produced one that offered the idea that either Bernie and Elizabeth might be out best bet to beat Trump, and his reasoning make sense.

    My thinking for a while has been that we need a moderate candidate to appeal to the 40% of the population that are registered as Independent. However, as he points out, slotting either Bernie or Elizabeth at the top of the ticket would appeal to a lot of people who voted for Trump. According to Trump, the stock market is "doing great" - but that is absolutely no help to most of the people who voted for Trump, since their financial plight has not improved, They again would be willing to vote for somebody other than an "establishment candidate".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoJ7V5dfBYQ&feature=youtu.be

  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Forget it!! These persons will give Trump an easy free ride. Wake up America use your non-existent brains.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        

    The New York Times this morning published a column detailing how Bernie, Bloomberg, Pete, Elizabeth, Amy or Biden would ALL be good choices:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/02/27/opinion/which-democrat-should-I-vote-for.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

    The current virus outbreak further exposes how incompetent Trump's administration is, which FINALLY may get the attention of Trump's supporters.

    One paragraph sums it up very well.

    The nation got its first real look at Chad Wolf, the acting homeland security secretary, who appeared before a Senate subcommittee and admitted he had no idea how the virus was transmitted among humans, exactly how dangerous it was, or … pretty much anything.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/26/opinion/coronavirus-trump.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        

    Fareed Zakaria, Washington Post: Bernie Sanders’s Scandinavian fantasy

    Bernie Sanders time and again points to countries such as Denmark, Sweden and Norway as examples of economic systems he wants to emulate in the United States. Sanders continually knocks the "billionaires"-- they should not exist. As Zakaria points out, however,

    "Sweden and Norway both have more billionaires per capita than the United States — Sweden almost twice as many. Not only that, these billionaires are able to pass on their wealth to their children tax-free. Inheritance taxes in Sweden and Norway are zero, and in Denmark 15 percent. The United States, by contrast, has the fourth-highest estate taxes in the industrialized world at 40 percent."

    Furthermore, the Value Added Tax (VAT) of about 25 percent puts much of the tax burden on the poor and middle class. As a result, a "2008 OECD report found that the top 10 percent in the United States pay 45 percent of all income taxes, while the top 10 percent in Denmark pay 26 percent and in Sweden 27 percent. Among wealthy countries, the average is 32 percent. "

    "The basic point is worth underlining because the American left seems largely unaware of it, and it has only become more true over the past decade: The United States has a significantly more progressive tax code than Europe, and its top 10 percent pays a vastly greater share of the country’s taxes than their European counterparts."

    However, it is classic Bernie to not present the full picture, just like his Medicare for All sell is less than honest. Do the math!

  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Differentiate between Hillary '16 and Biden '20. Biden's moderate posture seems to ignore that millions have no health insurance, cannot afford co pays or deductibles, cannot plan on college.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Schmidt Wrote:

    Fareed Zakaria, Washington Post: Bernie Sanders’s Scandinavian fantasy

    Bernie Sanders time and again points to countries such as Denmark, Sweden and Norway as examples of economic systems he wants to emulate in the United States. Sanders continually knocks the "billionaires"-- they should not exist. As Zakaria points out, however,

    "Sweden and Norway both have more billionaires per capita than the United States — Sweden almost twice as many. Not only that, these billionaires are able to pass on their wealth to their children tax-free. Inheritance taxes in Sweden and Norway are zero, and in Denmark 15 percent. The United States, by contrast, has the fourth-highest estate taxes in the industrialized world at 40 percent."

    Furthermore, the Value Added Tax (VAT) of about 25 percent puts much of the tax burden on the poor and middle class. As a result, a "2008 OECD report found that the top 10 percent in the United States pay 45 percent of all income taxes, while the top 10 percent in Denmark pay 26 percent and in Sweden 27 percent. Among wealthy countries, the average is 32 percent. "

    "The basic point is worth underlining because the American left seems largely unaware of it, and it has only become more true over the past decade: The United States has a significantly more progressive tax code than Europe, and its top 10 percent pays a vastly greater share of the country’s taxes than their European counterparts."

    However, it is classic Bernie to not present the full picture, just like his Medicare for All sell is less than honest. Do the math!

    The same thing in the Netherlands; there are more Ferrari's there than in Iowa, however the tax rate for the rich is progressive, which is not the case in this country. Like in France it could be up to 70%.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Dutch Wrote: Forget it!! These persons will give Trump an easy free ride. Wake up America use your non-existent brains.

    When I read what a lot of moderates are saying I don't think its a matter of electability. The monied and moderate Democrats don't want Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren to beat Trump. And now that Sanders is likely to be the front runner they are upset. A lot of them would rather have Trump than a Democrat who challenges the power of wealthy corporate interests.

  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        

    Dutch:

    Looks like the maximum rate in the Netherlands is 51.75%, compared to 37% here.

    The big difference is in capital gains. Ours is 15%, where it could be 100% in Holland at a certain level.

    https://www.tax-consultants-international.com/read/Dutch_tax_rates_2019_individuals?sublist=4772&submenu=17163

  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Center Left Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: Forget it!! These persons will give Trump an easy free ride. Wake up America use your non-existent brains.

    When I read what a lot of moderates are saying I don't think its a matter of electability. The monied and moderate Democrats don't want Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren to beat Trump. And now that Sanders is likely to be the front runner they are upset. A lot of them would rather have Trump than a Democrat who challenges the power of wealthy corporate interests.

    It's true Sanders does scare a lot people, I tend to think that Trump scares people more, including those with deep pockets. A president Sanders' agenda could be blocked by congress by an organized resistance that is well funded. Trump is completely irrational and can't be reasoned with, or defused by rational people with a plan\money. It impossible to predict on any day what in the hell is going to do, especially when he does not have to face a reelection. Trump single handedly could tank the US economy by making a few bad decisions that is solely in his best interest, and when it comes to Trump, all decisions he makes are based on what is in his self-interest.

  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        

    Bernie and Elizabeth ? Who's the VP candidate ? Perhaps Bernie or Elizabeth. The other really old white guy won tonight in SC. Stay tuned.

    Many don't seem to like Bloomberg but it's nice seeing his commercials. Other than him the Dems have no msg. Stunningly silent. The citizens want to be spoken to. One person does that. The wrong person.

  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        

    Elaine Godfrey, The Atlantic, Feb 26, 2020: The Dissonance Between Sanders and His Supporters on Medicare for All

    Godfrey has interviewed many Bernie supporters who are more realistic about the poor prospects of getting a Medicare for All law passed by Congress. A typical response from those not in "La La land" is: “If we could get a super-solid public option that could not be easily upturned by another party coming into power, that would be wildly successful.”

    It would appear that many of the Bernie supporters share a more realistic outcome, but not Bernie or the hardest core of his supporters who have repeatedly blasted Mayor Pete's "Medicare for all who want it", as well as Warren's transition plan that includes a public option first. For Bernie and those hard core supports it remains, "my way or the highway" and anyone not on board is a "traitor".

    I have said that I will knock on doors for Bernie if he is the nominee, but I would only do so if I could be honest about the next to zero chance of getting his "Medicare for All" or his "free college for everyone" or "cancellation of all student debt" plans passed without considerable "compromises". They may not want me volunteering on those terms. For them any compromise is a four letter word.

  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        

    Schimidt, in "tone" Sanders comes off as a leftest version of Trump. "No compromise" or "My way, or no way", etc. Trump won with that type of campaign in 2016, and Sanders brings an high level of passion to the Democratic party that the other candidates do not match because Sanders speaks from inner passion of authenticity, that frequently gets him in trouble with this rivals. If you have seen the 1970s movie "Network", Sanders is similar to the character Howard Beale, a network TV News anchor that gets fedup with all the BS and lets the nation know what he really thinks on the national News broadcast. As a result he gets a huge TV ratings and a cult following. As frequently quoted from the movie, Sanders is metaphorically saying "I am Mad as hell, and I am not going to take it anymore".... and there is sizable democratic base that feels the same way, just as there are Republicans that like Trump's "Get on my team and fall in line, or I will fuck you up the ass"; his base loves that tone expressed in those words. It very similar to how religious fundamentalists think of their religion and God. From their perspective God demands strict obedience and hands out very harsh punishment; there is no questioning of God, religious leaders, or Donald Trump who is on par with a religious messiah in Trump World.

    I would argue that there is a sizable amount of swing voters, and Trump voters, that are likely to vote for Sanders for many of the same reasons they like Trump. That is good for Sanders, and very bad for Trump.

    youtube.com/watch?v=WINDtlPXmmE

  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        

    And then there were four ....

    Both Pete and Tom Steyer dropped out yesterday, and today, Amy Klobuchar pulled the plug on her campaign, which leaves Bernie, Biden, Mike, and Elizabeth as "the final four". Personally, I have a feeling that Super Tuesday is not going to be kind to Mike, but I might be surprised.

    For what it's worth, Amy endorsed Biden on her way out the door, as did Pete. Tammy Duckworth in Illinois also endorsed Biden.

    At this point, I am making NO predictions on who the final nominee is going to be, but I'm afraid it's about to get ugly after tomorrow tonight.

    The best thing that could happen to all of us is if the coronavirus exploded, and the stock market plummets, which would seal Trump's doom.

  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Warren, member of the man haters club. msn.com/en-us/news/elections-2020/eliza...p
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        

    Bernie promises a lot. Many of us are concerned that he never explains the cost or the way that things would be paid for. This article in The Atlantic suggests the price would be 60 trillion dollars. The Trump tax cuts cost us a lot but not 60 trillion.

    The numbers cited are truly eye popping - is the link within the article that breaks out costs per idea.

    theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/0...