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War With Iran Will Make the Iraq War Look Like Child's Play

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    We're on the verge of a full-blown war with Iran with zero Congressional debate, let alone authorization. That, to quote famed author Judith Viorst would be a Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad thing.

    Donald seems intent on escalating this conflict without spending one second considering the unintended consequences of such an idiotic and self-defeating move.

    For starters, Iran is not Iraq. They have a sophisticated military with land, sea, air, and cyber capabilities. It's likely they wouldn't be able to beat the US military in a head-to-head match, but that's assuming the American people would be willing to send the 1.6 million troops experts predict would be needed to invade Iran and successfully overthrow the government in Tehran. If, as I predict we aren't willing to do that, there's little to zero chance the government in Tehran would be toppled.

    What's more scary is what Tehran can do by simply activating their sleeper cells throughout the Middle-East, Europe, and the West.

    Imagine this scenario. Tehran retaliates by attacking a US flagged oil tanker in the Strait of Hormuz, shutting down the straight and sending oil prices through the roof. Donald retaliates by hitting a bunch of targets inside Iran. Iran retaliates by launching a massive cyber-attack against the US and the West. Donald retaliates with more missiles, but he's beginning to run out of options outside of a full-blown invasion in a mountainous country that is larger than France, Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, and Portugal combined. Iran retaliates by unleashing their sleeper-cells in Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Iraq, and Syria against US and Israeli interests. The entire Middle-East would be in a full-blown conflict in a matter of days.

    This is a very real scenario with an unpredictable President who very likely sees war as a rallying cry to shore up his base *and* change the topic away from his impeachment. What's so depressing is I've literally been waiting for Donald to start a hot war and am sadly surprised it took him this long. Republicans love getting us into wars without thinking about the unintended consequences. It's always up to the Democrats to pick up the pieces later.

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    I agree with Jared. History is replete with examples of how single events escalated into something much bigger. One of the most notorious examples was the assassination of the Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria and his wife on June 28, 1914 by a group of six assassins whose motive was to break away the south Slav provinces from Austria-Hungary. Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia triggering various treaties and alliances that ultimately led to the Great War (World War I) and the death of some 16 to 22 million military personnel and civilians. Of course there were already tensions between the various countries and factions along with the ensuant military build-ups. That and the sometimes really underestimated forces of nationalism were unleased in vengeance in the aftermath of the emotions that were triggered by the assassination. Even Woodrow Wilson, who was elected on a promise to keep the United States out of that war, was dragged in reluctantly. His "make the world safe for democracy"speech to Congress on April 2, 1917 asking Congress to declare war is historical.

    "The world must be made safe for democracy. Its peace must be planted upon the tested foundations of political liberty. We have no selfish ends to serve. We desire no conquest, no dominion. We seek no indemnities for ourselves, no material compensation for the sacrifices we shall freely make. We are but one of the champions of the rights of mankind. We shall be satisfied when those rights have been made as secure as the faith and the freedom of nations can make them." – President Woodrow Wilson, extract from speech to Congress asking for a declaration of war against Germany, April 2, 1917

    Sounds really good and patriotic...but hey, up to 22 million people died in that war.

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    Yes Jared, you've got the picture. The Dem's got to make sure that this idiot gets kicked out, before he creates more damage for this country. Yes, I warned so many times for this, because the idiot in the W.H. has no clue about the world and is naive as hell. Catering to the "evangelicals" is about the dumbest you can get, especially in the Middle East; I've been there and know what it takes; Obama did understand as well Kerry and Europe who helped to sign the nuke agreement. Trump only made things worse, because he was jealous of Obama's deal there. How stupid is the situation now, because the dumb people here elected Trump. Wake up America you have become the most naive country in the world.
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    The forces of nationalism and patriotism have always worked in the favor of despots who claimed that their country was under attack. It worked for Bush as his favorable polls shot skyward after 9/11, and Trump hopes that similar feelings will drive his polls upward. Unfortunately, if you look at the streets of Tehran today with millions of Iranians taking to the streets to protest the "Great Satin", one can only conclude that Trump, the Divider in Chief at home, has become the "Great Uniter" for Iran that was undergoing its own turmoil and internal conflict until "the assassin" acted.
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    Nancy Pelosi is introducing legislation to limit Trump's war powers on Iran. Tim Kaine is doing likewise in the Senate. The legislation demands that military hostilities with Iran cease within 30 days unless further Congressional action is taken to authorize military actions.

    Meanwhile Susan Rice, Obama's former National Security Advisor writes in a New York Times editorial that "Americans would be wise to brace for war with Iran."

    "Full-scale conflict is not a certainty, but the probability is higher than at any point in decades...President Trump’s decision to order the killing of Maj. Gen. Qassim Suleimani, Iran’s second most important official, as well as Iraqi leaders of an Iranian-backed militia, now locks our two countries in a dangerous escalatory cycle that will likely lead to wider warfare."

    Trump's continued blustering and threats backed up by Pompeo are designed to appeal to the emotions of his base. It is a dangerous game he is playing and Democrats are right to rein his power in. But will Republicans go along?

    Trump, on the other hand, claims that his tweets are sufficient notice to Congress of any possible U.S. military strike on Iran, in an apparent dismissal of his obligations under the War Powers Act of 1973.

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    Nothing of this would have happened if the asshole would have had any brains. There was an "deal" with Obama's signature and plenty of other countries co-signed it. Trump's only "childish" issue was Obama's "signature" without ever thinking about the consequences. Again as I've said a million times; make an sound "operating manual" for Presidents and the"top" functions in the government. Such prevents "power grabs" and "dictatorship". Right now, he can do what the "child" wants to do. Thus such "manual" should be part of the oath and Constitution. It should also have strict (defined) punishment, if not followed.

    But yeah the brainless idiots here rather have an "crook" who thinks he's "god" or something. Shaking my old head.

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    Iran said it is backing out of their nuclear agreement made with the Obama administration. If I were Israel, I would be worried, very worried, and I would be very angry with Trump, he has made the world a less safe place to live.

    It's good that Nancy and the house of reps. are passing a bill to limit presidential powers, I'll call it the presidential powers limitation act I. Probably already thought of but a little too late. It shoulda' been a constitutional amendment 250 years ago. just sayin'.

    And for those of us who are deep thinkers about Trump's scandals, this could be a wag the dog type of thing here without the comedy. There's nothing funny about having an ample supply of body bags for more Americans.

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    Yes Dock you are absolutely right on that. In the meantime Iran ( who?) offered $80 million for Trump's head. I would not give 5 cent for his dumb ass head filled with pure shit. Since this guy never thinks about consequences; success is assured. Long live the dictator, deplorables are you now happy, you will get what you want, another war and lots of flag draped coffins. Iraq vowed to get all the Americans out if their country; they are correct; they never "asked" for the "yankee's" to get bombed and killed for no reason. The Saudi's were responsible for 9/11 not the Iraqi's. So the stupidity carries on and on. We never learned anything from all our wars; Vietnam and Cuba etc. should have been an message a long time ago, that this "island" should stick to this "island" only and clean up their own "mess" first before stomping into other countries. I guess they will never learn in this country that this remains an "island" which refuses to accept that they are not alone in this world and can "bully" everyone and invade/attack everyone without consequences.
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    Dutch Wrote: Yes Dock you are absolutely right on that. In the meantime Iran ( who?) offered $80 million for Trump's head. I would not give 5 cent for his dumb ass head filled with pure shit. Since this guy never thinks about consequences; success is assured. Long live the dictator, deplorables are you now happy, you will get what you want, another war and lots of flag draped coffins. Iraq vowed to get all the Americans out if their country; they are correct; they never "asked" for the "yankee's" to get bombed and killed for no reason. The Saudi's were responsible for 9/11 not the Iraqi's. So the stupidity carries on and on. We never learned anything from all our wars; Vietnam and Cuba etc. should have been an message a long time ago, that this "island" should stick to this "island" only and clean up their own "mess" first before stomping into other countries. I guess they will never learn in this country that this remains an "island" which refuses to accept that they are not alone in this world and can "bully" everyone and invade/attack everyone without consequences.
    I'm actually surprised that now people in the middle east are calling for destruction of anything with a Trump name attached to it. I would have thought they were enraged by Trump's actions way before this point in time, after all, Trump did insult nearly the whole Muslim faith with his travel bans on Muslim faith based countries. I guess the assassination of an Iranian leader was the straw that broke the horse's back. Again, Trump knows nothing about what these peoples are capable of, they stick together like glue, Americans all over the world will need to watch their backs now, because attacks will come from nowhere and no warnings will be issued by them. Terrorists the world over will be watching for opportunities to attack Americans and our allies. They'll exploit our weaknesses.
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    As Vice News is reporting, American paratroopers were denied entry into Iraq after Trump's assassination of General Soleimani but before the vote by the Iraq Parliament asking the US military to leave Iraq. It appears that there was little US planning by the US government to secure US assets and protect personnel. Meanwhile, the US government was asking Americans to leave Iraq via the same airport in which the Trump assassination of Soleimani occurred. And the US embassy (that fortress) was no longer considered a safe refuge for Americans. It was chaotic at the time, and eventually some paratroopers were allowed in to assist the exit of Americans from Iraq.

    From news reports, many within Trump's own administration were caught flat footed by the assassination. It appears it was something that Trump decided largely on his own on a whim consulting few people except those present at Mar-a-Lago at the time, including Lindsey Graham.

    Then yesterday Marine Brig. Gen. William H. Seely III wrote a letter to an Iraqi defense official stating that the US would withdraw troops from Iraq to comply with the vote taken by the Iraqi Parliament that all US troops should leave the country.. It was well circulated within Iraq and the media. Consistent with that request, Iran's Supreme leader, Ayatollah Khamenei said his goal is to have all US troops removed from the region.

    Then a more senior general issued a retraction of General Seely's letter saying it was issued by mistake. Is this a comedy or what? Did Trump ask for the retraction so as to not be seen as driven out of the country by Ayatollah Khamenei, a face saving measure. Yesterday's action and retraction was confusing to many in the Trump administration and Pentagon.

    Meanwhile Trump has threatened Iraq with sanctions and said they must pay for the cost of the military base. Sheesh.

    From the Washington Post: "[Trump] said the United States would demand that Iraq repay money spent on a major air base, and he threatened that Washington would “charge them sanctions like they’ve never seen before, ever. It’ll make Iranian sanctions look somewhat tame.”'

    This blows one's mind. Trump is also threatening to destroy Iranian cultural sites in Iran and Defense Secretary Esper is denying Trump's threat.

    Trump is an unhinged loose cannon and those like Esper cannot keep covering for his threats and rants.

    Wow all this to detract from the impeachment. And now John Bolton's statement that he is willing to testify in the Senate impeachment hearing must have made him extra mad. What will the madman do next? How long can Republicans cover for him?

    Okay, this is my rant. I try keep my emotions in check, but it's hard to do when Trump looks like he is really losing it.

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    Schmidt your "thread" is not an "rant", but facts. I guess, they forget in this country who is supporting Iraq, Iran, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Turkey an all the Muslim countries; it is Russia! We think we have an great "deal" with Saudia Arabia, but don't forget where Mecca is located. This whole "block" of Muslim countries, can't stand the by the US created State of Israel which has been an thorn in their eyes since 1947. The US aid to Israel makes us the "enemy"; the only reason that the Saudi's "help" the US is that they can get "weapons" and sell their oil to the West. Trump and Kussner think they can be trusted, but totally forget that, they are the "center" of the Muslim society and would love to flatten Israel.

    Thus the picture is different than Trump and his "evangelicals" portray.

    Sorry people it is all about "religion" and "oil" . The US used to be an big importer from that area, but no longer is, so things related making "money" from us, is changed due to an "negative" view of what the US is doing in the world. They will join their Muslim "brothers" before supporting any Christian society. Sorry, this "block" of Muslim countries is huge; and has fought wars forever to protect their heritage. This silly "island" called USA has no clue, on how complicated the Muslim world is and therefore has no idea how to deal with it. Sending "soldiers" there is an absolute joke. Let's waste some more tax money for an battle which never will be won, just like Vietnam and all our losing wars since WWII.

    Related to "targets" for Iran to use; why not the Trump properties; you can't miss those, his name is plastered on these buildings in huge golden letters, which an "drone" even can read. Ha ha.

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    In the meantime, Macron has arranged an meeting with Rouhani of Iran. Europe wants to make sure they are not in the crosshairs of the US stupidity and want to stay out, as well will try to save some parts of the nuke deal and be able to trade with that country as well import the oil.

    The whole EU is already upset about the whole thing because they've aided until now the US in their stupid endeavors. Since the deal was if one party of the coalition was attacked, the other would jump in to help. Because the US does not consult the partners and attacks sovereign countries, this agreement is no longer valid and the US will stand alone in their ridiculous stance. It is the same as Trump (Don Quichotte) says: "fighting windmills"

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    When the US Congress handed over its war making powers to the lunatics in the Executive Branch it allowed those war mongering maniacs to terrorize the planet for generations and made America an on going war crimes country based on war profits.

    Never in US history has that government sunk so low in criminality and violence and now they are going after Iran which is totally insane and Iran will fight back and millions of Iranians and Americans will be slaughtered and maimed because our country is being run by soulless, degenerate war criminals and they all should be arrested, tried and hung for all the war crimes they have been committing around the planet.

    Any American who believes in right and wrong should organize and destroy this evil military dictatorship.

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    IDK Jared, they just yesterday dispatched 6 B52 bombers to that area, and those can be very destructive, they were used in the Viet Nam war primarily carpet bombing. If the US is planning on carpet bombing Iran, they'd better be really careful not to kill innocent Iranians.

    The youtube video below claims it is US Military but I don't believe it's official. Could be fake.

    US Military

    US Deploys 110 F-35 Fighter Jets and B-52 Bomber to near Iranian

    youtube.com/watch?v=2ELDzvgGU9A

    CBS news/commentary, what war with Iran would look like: youtube.com/watch?v=NU0skOCywGk

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    According to Reuters, Iranian state TV is claiming 80 American terrorists killed in the Iranian missile attacks on the Iraq bases. State TV also said Iran had 100 other targets in the region ready to be attacked if Americans took any retaliatory measures for the killing of the 80 American terrorists. This death count is obviously a lie, but we don't have any reports of deaths yet from the Trump administration or military.

    Trump is due to "make a statement" to the nation this morning. He tweeted last night, "all is good". It would appear then that the Iranians have exaggerated claims with the sole purpose of placating their populace who want revenge. Will Trump let them have their moment of glory by not challenging their death count? Or will he ramp up the rhetoric and claim victory while trashing the Iranians? Or worse engage in another US attack to placate the lust of his own base of rabid supporters?

    It appears the potential for all out war can be quashed, but it really depends on the temperament of Trump.