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What best Strategy to win in 2020?

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    1) Should the focus first be on beating Donald Trump, then secondary be focus on issues

    or

    2) Should the focus be on issues, and then secondary focus on beating Trump.

    For me, getting rid Donald Trump is my biggest #1 on my list. I'd vote anybody, including a republican, if that is what it took to get rid of Donald Trump. IMO, Trump is a huge cancer that spreads fast, if the cancer is not removed, all other concerns become irrelevant. For me, there are no other issues more important than getting that MF out of office.

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    Getting rid of Donald is my only issue. Policy proposals come in a far distant second.

    I just hope we don’t become our own worst enemies a second election in a row.

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    jaredsxtn Wrote:

    Getting rid of Donald is my only issue. Policy proposals come in a far distant second.

    I just hope we don’t become our own worst enemies a second election in a row.

    If there is another perfect storm, it will because the democrats nominate a candidate that, like HC, turns away swing voters in key states. If the democrats pick a good candidate that is not too far from the center, there is high probability that Democrats will not only get a majority of swing voters, but also an above average number of Republicans.

    IMO, there is a large percentage of silent Republicans voters who's votes are up for grabs because they do not like Donald Trump. A majority of Republicans are not Trumps Republicans, they recognize that he is corrupt and will always be self-serving 100% of the time. If the Democrats give them a decent candidate that is not to far to the left, centrist republicans will not vote for Trump. I truly believe Trump could be swept out of office in a landslide victory for the Democrats that would go down in history as a massive Republican rejection of their own party's president.

    I think would be a mistake for Democrats to feel they need to go as far to the left as Donald Trump is to the right. We don't want a candidate that says "Screw everybody that is not 100% on our team". We do not want a candidate that more-or-less projects an extreme left mirror image of Donald Trump: "Own a gun, then FU. Are pro-life, FU. Didn't like HC in 2016, FU. A Republican, FU".... That kind of messaging works for Donald Trump because his base thinks like that, but that extremism does not work for Democrats, because as a general statement, Democrats are not extremists nor fundamentalists, at least in terms of percentages needed to push a candidate over the top. The real question is where is the current "Sweet Spot" for the next election. Ideally, it would be nominating another Barack Obama; center-left that makes vast majority of Americans feel the future is safe hands. If Barack Obama could run against Trump, it would be a massive, overwhelming, landslide victory.

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    The biggest problem is how to transfer these "center red States" which Hillary forgot to visit. My biggest fear is that all these deplorable evangelicals will stick with Trump because the economy and job growth is not bad. They have only become even more fanatic lately due to Sinclair and FOX as well Barr. So it will be an uphill battle, which ever way.
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    Talking about it like ignoring the reality has the potential of another perfect storm. The only way to beat Trump is on the issues.

    Now, from all the posts so far it seems like the plight of the people with underpaid stagnant wages, no Health care , can't afford to use their Health care , can't afford college is either denied or not relevant or doesn't exist. Ignoring those people by nominating Joe Biden will be disastrous. Biden will not be able to contradict Trump on the low or stagnant wages without discrediting 8 years of the Obama presidency and 8 years of the Clinton Presidency. No other candidate has that liability. If Biden gets the nomination he has the highest risk of losing to Trump. The polls that have Biden so far ahead reflect the solid core Democratic voter. Biden is too soft on all the issues that effect the working poor. Biden can't answer Trump . If Trump says the reason Hillary didn't get elected is because the 8 years of Obama Biden didn't help the middle class then what is Biden going to say?

    Trump will lie and distort. He'll say the booming economy is the first stage of a booming middle class wage hike. He'll say as the GDP increases so will wages reflected by the historically low unemployment rate that means a labor shortage. Unless something drastic happens Biden will have a hard time running against Trump. Nominating Biden is almost a sure repeat of 2016.

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    wwjd Wrote:
    jaredsxtn Wrote:

    Getting rid of Donald is my only issue. Policy proposals come in a far distant second.

    I just hope we don’t become our own worst enemies a second election in a row.

    If there is another perfect storm, it will because the democrats nominate a candidate that, like HC, turns away swing voters in key states. If the democrats pick a good candidate that is not too far from the center, there is high probability that Democrats will not only get a majority of swing voters, but also an above average number of Republicans.

    IMO, there is a large percentage of silent Republicans voters who's votes are up for grabs because they do not like Donald Trump. A majority of Republicans are not Trumps Republicans, they recognize that he is corrupt and will always be self-serving 100% of the time. If the Democrats give them a decent candidate that is not to far to the left, centrist republicans will not vote for Trump. I truly believe Trump could be swept out of office in a landslide victory for the Democrats that would go down in history as a massive Republican rejection of their own party's president.

    I think would be a mistake for Democrats to feel they need to go as far to the left as Donald Trump is to the right. We don't want a candidate that says "Screw everybody that is not 100% on our team". We do not want a candidate that more-or-less projects an extreme left mirror image of Donald Trump: "Own a gun, then FU. Are pro-life, FU. Didn't like HC in 2016, FU. A Republican, FU".... That kind of messaging works for Donald Trump because his base thinks like that, but that extremism does not work for Democrats, because as a general statement, Democrats are not extremists nor fundamentalists, at least in terms of percentages needed to push a candidate over the top. The real question is where is the current "Sweet Spot" for the next election. Ideally, it would be nominating another Barack Obama; center-left that makes vast majority of Americans feel the future is safe hands. If Barack Obama could run against Trump, it would be a massive, overwhelming, landslide victory.

    wwjd said:

    "If Barack Obama could run against Trump, it would be a massive, overwhelming, landslide victory."

    Hillary running was a reflection of 8 years of Obama.

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    Chet Ruminski Wrote:

    "If Barack Obama could run against Trump, it would be a massive, overwhelming, landslide victory."

    Hillary running was a reflection of 8 years of Obama.

    Way different set of conditions. Trump was not president and HC was running, not Barack Obama. Can't even remotely begin to compare them. IMO, just enough Barack Obama swing voters in key states voted for Trump. Think of it this way, HC lost the election, Trump did not win it. Given Russian meddling, it was perfect storm for Trump to get just enough the swing voters. Plus, centrist Republicans do not like Donald Trump now, but thought he was OK in 2016. Yeah, sure his base will always vote for him. Trump's base are crazies, extremists, and fundamentalists; the Republican party can have every single one of them. You name it, they will find something in the bible that justifies even the most horrible actions, including separating children from their parents. Yep, Pat Robinson was on TV quoting the bible's support for it. That is just sick.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    jaredsxtn Wrote:

    Getting rid of Donald is my only issue. Policy proposals come in a far distant second.

    I just hope we don’t become our own worst enemies a second election in a row.

    Yes Jared you are right; since the economy is quite good; then the GOP lovers don't care what Trump, Barr or Graham are doing. Also Trump still threatens to "kill" the ACA but I see no protest yet.

    Like I've said many times; get hold one way or another of his tax returns; likely there are not any; may be it has been under "audit" for 10 years or more? I bet he's guilty as hell and still owes millions in back taxes. Yes it is I think the only way to nail him.

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    Dutch Wrote:

    Like I've said many times; get hold one way or another of his tax returns; likely there are not any; may be it has been under "audit" for 10 years or more? I bet he's guilty as hell and still owes millions in back taxes. Yes it is I think the only way to nail him.

    Are you saying he's not filed his taxes? Explain further what you mean by "likely there are not any" tax returns.

    No doubt he has been gaming the tax system for decades so that he never pays any taxes, but lots of people figure out how to do that. Good chance Trump has never paid any federal income taxes in his entire life. And might go as as far as claiming the Fed owes him money on taxes returns were he never paid any taxes; ie paid zero taxes, but claims the feds owe him millions.

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    wwjd Wrote:
    Chet Ruminski Wrote:

    "If Barack Obama could run against Trump, it would be a massive, overwhelming, landslide victory."

    Hillary running was a reflection of 8 years of Obama.

    Way different set of conditions. Trump was not president and HC was running, not Barack Obama. Can't even remotely begin to compare them. IMO, just enough Barack Obama swing voters in key states voted for Trump. Think of it this way, HC lost the election, Trump did not win it. Given Russian meddling, it was perfect storm for Trump to get just enough the swing voters. Plus, centrist Republicans do not like Donald Trump now, but thought he was OK in 2016. Yeah, sure his base will always vote for him. Trump's base are crazies, extremists, and fundamentalists; the Republican party can have every single one of them. You name it, they will find something in the bible that justifies even the most horrible actions, including separating children from their parents. Yep, Pat Robinson was on TV quoting the bible's support for it. That is just sick.

    Said wwjd:

    "Can't even remotely begin to compare them. IMO"

    Hillary and Obama had a lot in common. Hillary . She was in his cabinet. But the most important thing are the working poor voting voters that are not involved. They had faith in Bernie and when Bernie didn't get it they voted for :"Lots of good jobs , make America great again and Trumps promise that nobody would be denied health insurance if they couldn't pay. Hillary didn't come close to that and that is why Trump got their votes. Somebody start believing that working poor are suffering and they vote. Do you think the working poor are going to give up hope for more money, health care and education because somebody tells them all those things are bad for poor people???

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    wwjd Wrote:
    Chet Ruminski Wrote:

    "If Barack Obama could run against Trump, it would be a massive, overwhelming, landslide victory."

    Hillary running was a reflection of 8 years of Obama.

    Way different set of conditions. Trump was not president and HC was running, not Barack Obama. Can't even remotely begin to compare them. IMO, just enough Barack Obama swing voters in key states voted for Trump. Think of it this way, HC lost the election, Trump did not win it. Given Russian meddling, it was perfect storm for Trump to get just enough the swing voters. Plus, centrist Republicans do not like Donald Trump now, but thought he was OK in 2016. Yeah, sure his base will always vote for him. Trump's base are crazies, extremists, and fundamentalists; the Republican party can have every single one of them. You name it, they will find something in the bible that justifies even the most horrible actions, including separating children from their parents. Yep, Pat Robinson was on TV quoting the bible's support for it. That is just sick.

    wwjd wrote :"Chet Ruminski Wrote:

    "If Barack Obama could run against Trump, it would be a massive, overwhelming, landslide victory.""

    Incorrect !! wwjd wrote

    "If Barack Obama could run against Trump, it would be a massive, overwhelming, landslide victory."

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    Health care and climate change are the two issues most important to Democratic voters and we need to keep those at the top of the messaging. That being said, the ideal candidate must be authentic and appeal to a broad segment of the electorate...the Independents and moderate Republicans. Centrism wins over extreme ideology.

    It is my view that the votes gained from Independents and moderate Republicans will offset the votes lost when the extreme far left part Bernie crowd (25 percent of Bernie supporters) decides to not participate, vote for a 3rd party candidate, or vote for Trump again, hoping to accelerate their revolution.

    I don't know if Biden is the best choice. Another younger centrist might emerge after the debates really get going. So it's too early to judge. Every Democratic Party candidate, however, will be vilified by Trump in endless rallies. If they have no baggage, Trump will make shit up.

    Keep to the issues.

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    wwjd Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote:

    Like I've said many times; get hold one way or another of his tax returns; likely there are not any; may be it has been under "audit" for 10 years or more? I bet he's guilty as hell and still owes millions in back taxes. Yes it is I think the only way to nail him.

    Are you saying he's not filed his taxes? Explain further what you mean by "likely there are not any" tax returns.

    No doubt he has been gaming the tax system for decades so that he never pays any taxes, but lots of people figure out how to do that. Good chance Trump has never paid any federal income taxes in his entire life. And might go as as far as claiming the Fed owes him money on taxes returns were he never paid any taxes; ie paid zero taxes, but claims the feds owe him millions.

    He certainly did not "file" any the last two years; they've been under "audit' as he's said all the time. Indeed he's very afraid if people start digging in his tax returns; even Cohen said that he "screws" everyone including the IRS. I bet he owes millions in back taxes.
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    Schmidt Wrote:

    Health care and climate change are the two issues most important to Democratic voters and we need to keep those at the top of the messaging. That being said, the ideal candidate must be authentic and appeal to a broad segment of the electorate...the Independents and moderate Republicans. Centrism wins over extreme ideology.

    It is my view that the votes gained from Independents and moderate Republicans will offset the votes lost when the extreme far left part Bernie crowd (25 percent of Bernie supporters) decides to not participate, vote for a 3rd party candidate, or vote for Trump again, hoping to accelerate their revolution.

    I don't know if Biden is the best choice. Another younger centrist might emerge after the debates really get going. So it's too early to judge. Every Democratic Party candidate, however, will be vilified by Trump in endless rallies. If they have no baggage, Trump will make shit up.

    Keep to the issues.

    Said Schmidt:

    "Health care and climate change are the two issues most important to Democratic voters and we need to keep those at the top of the messaging."

    Schmidt, No doubt about it but those voters voted for Hillary. The voters needed to win the next election are the ones with stagnated wages. Indications point to the rust belt states for the 2016 loss. Higher taxes and Wall Street reform will put higher paying jobs into the economy. And wages are going to be the tipping point with . With unemployment at historically low levels the next reaction could be higher wages resulting from a shortage of workers. Trump will ride that to no end. There needs to be a Democratic response ready addressing higher wages.

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    Forget the "issues"; as long as Trump thrives on lies and deceit, his followers will stick as glue to him, because the economy is not yet "bad" and who cares about the deficit. Especially the "evangelicals" and the "rich" will not change. So the only thing is to find things what the "middle States" who Hillary lost, do want. It is not the jobs, I guess,? but likely better country roads, better healthcare at an cheaper cost (no co-pays) as well better schools and teachers. May be they want better subsidies for their farms and farm products, because of Trumps "tariffs".

    So my suggestion is to concentrate on that and less on political jumbo.