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How the 2020 election can evolve into disaster.

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    And you think yellow jackets are bad????
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    Dutch Wrote: Yes Jared you are right; however Bernie may become an "spoiler" again and Trump may then win again." L'histoire ce repette" . Will this country ever learn?
    Dutch, Everything you have been saying on this forum since I have been here is that the country needs drastic changes. So a guy comes along and wants to change all the crap you complain about and you are against him. WIthout Bernie all you get is more of the same. Why are you so against Bernie????
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    I'm allergic to Bernie and his yellow jackets. His role is spoiler at best. We have a pathetic field currently.
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: Why won't you support Bernie?

    Because he's a demagogue who has convinced a lot of gullible people who are already down on their luck that he will give them everything in the world for free!!! Never mind how he's going to deliver on a single fanciful promise he's regurgitating to his die hard supporters. We'll save those pesky details for later.

    Please note that I didn't say "pay for," but instead asked how he's going to deliver on a single promise. Bernie and his busters live by a "no negotiation" strategy. It's Bernie's way or the highway. That is literally an impossible way to govern in any system outside of an absolute monarchy.

    That, among a million other reasons, is why I would never support Bernie...in the primary. Unlike his busters, I will vote for whoever the Democratic nominee happens to be, even if that means I have to swallow hard and vote for a demagogue who won't deliver on a single thing he's promised.

    If voting for a Donald of the left is what it takes to get rid of Donald then I guess I'll have to vote for the Donald of the left. Hopefully I won't be faced with that dilemma come next November.

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    Someone break it down for me. How many will vote for which candidate, and what might those demographics might be. I can see black Americans voting for Booker in droves just as they did for Obama, in a possible fact, black voter turnout was at it's highest in 2008 and in 2012, was it not?

    I can see possibly about 33% of young voters, like millennials voting for Sanders, and I can see about 33% of older whites voting for Biden, and maybe 33% undecided or staying at home and letting trump win again, but forget the percentages, worry about the other element, the electoral college, which gave trump a win in 2016.

    Too many D candidates, not enough likability to win.

    I will admit Booker is a likable person, he seems to say things that make him a viable contender.

    "Fully 96 percent of black voters supported Obama and constituted 13 percent of the electorate, a 2-percentage-point rise in their national turnout. As in past years, black women turned out at a higher rate than black men. A stunning 54 percent of young white voters supported Obama, compared with 44 percent who went for McCain, the senator from Arizona."

    politico.com/story/2008/11/exit-polls-h...

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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Chet Ruminski Wrote: Why won't you support Bernie?

    Because he's a demagogue who has convinced a lot of gullible people who are already down on their luck that he will give them everything in the world for free!!! Never mind how he's going to deliver on a single fanciful promise he's regurgitating to his die hard supporters. We'll save those pesky details for later.

    Please note that I didn't say "pay for," but instead asked how he's going to deliver on a single promise. Bernie and his busters live by a "no negotiation" strategy. It's Bernie's way or the highway. That is literally an impossible way to govern in any system outside of an absolute monarchy.

    That, among a million other reasons, is why I would never support Bernie...in the primary. Unlike his busters, I will vote for whoever the Democratic nominee happens to be, even if that means I have to swallow hard and vote for a demagogue who won't deliver on a single thing he's promised.

    If voting for a Donald of the left is what it takes to get rid of Donald then I guess I'll have to vote for the Donald of the left. Hopefully I won't be faced with that dilemma come next November.

    Ultimately you would conform to what is good for the party. But in the meantime you are the single largest obstruction to party unity. Holding Bernie accountable for promises is holding Bernie to an artificially higher standard than any other candidate has been subjected to do. He has to have faith in his plans which would include winning majorities in both houses. A high marginal tax rate and transactional taxes on certain trades are a step toward prosperity. A win for Bernie would signal a new day dawning and politicians would be jumping on the Bernie plan like it was a meritorious honor. Contest to GOP lies high taxes are conducive to prosperity. Taxes are spending and spending is prosperity. Cutting taxes is cutting spending and cutting spending is death to an economy. When the highest marginal rate was above 90% everybody did good including the wealthy. Tax and spend is proven prosperity . That is undeniable. Everything Bernie says is well within the reach of a prosperous economy. Everything Bernie proposes is nothing different than the business plan of an expanding profitable company.

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    jaredsxtn said :"voting for a Donald of the left"

    Analogizing Sanders to Trump is incomprehensible.

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    Chet -- All I did was quote a Wall Street Journal/NBC poll on the view of Americans having a socialist as president and you call it a bold faced lie. Will you do me a favor? Join the Bernie campaign and start knocking on doors of unaffiliated voters and give your "Bernie pitch" to blue color workers. See what kind of reception you get. It will give you a reality check.

    On the other hand, if you visit college campuses like Bernie does seeking adulation in his campus rallies, then you'll get a lot of Bernie supporters taken in by the free stuff for everyone. I mentioned this before, but when Bernie campaigned for other candidates in 2016 at college campuses, the crowds came out to see Bernie and not the candidate. It was Bernie, Bernie, Bernie! And he wasn't the one running for office. Bernie sure seemed to love the adulation just like Trump does at a Trump rally. The most extreme of his followers are not unlike the most extreme of the Trump followers. They all need a reality check.

    So Chet, join his campaign and go into blue collar working neighborhoods and listen to what they have to say about "free stuff" and socialism. It might surprise you. I listened to hundreds of them.

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    Chet Ruminski Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: Yes Jared you are right; however Bernie may become an "spoiler" again and Trump may then win again." L'histoire ce repette" . Will this country ever learn?
    Dutch, Everything you have been saying on this forum since I have been here is that the country needs drastic changes. So a guy comes along and wants to change all the crap you complain about and you are against him. WIthout Bernie all you get is more of the same. Why are you so against Bernie????

    Chet , the changes I promote have nothing to do with Bernie; I promote changes in solid "laws" such as "mandatory" tax returns for any candidate, reform in elections without PAC money or lobbyists as well getting rid of the"electoral college" and proper laws for Presidents to limit their powers. etc. etc. Bernie is not promoting these things, but instead want things which costs loads of money. (Our deficit is out of bounds as well; thus no money is there for it) Jared is correct "politically speaking" that Bernie is an spoiler for the younger crowd who still wants an future in this country. Looking at all the "candidates" the field is growing as we speak; throw in Biden then you are getting "chaos" and an"spoiler" situation, but not an positive uniform direction for the Party.

    That is the reason I join in with Schmidt and Jared, because the situation is changed with Trump in power.

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    Schmidt Wrote:

    Chet -- All I did was quote a Wall Street Journal/NBC poll on the view of Americans having a socialist as president and you call it a bold faced lie. Will you do me a favor? Join the Bernie campaign and start knocking on doors of unaffiliated voters and give your "Bernie pitch" to blue color workers. See what kind of reception you get. It will give you a reality check.

    On the other hand, if you visit college campuses like Bernie does seeking adulation in his campus rallies, then you'll get a lot of Bernie supporters taken in by the free stuff for everyone. I mentioned this before, but when Bernie campaigned for other candidates in 2016 at college campuses, the crowds came out to see Bernie and not the candidate. It was Bernie, Bernie, Bernie! And he wasn't the one running for office. Bernie sure seemed to love the adulation just like Trump does at a Trump rally. The most extreme of his followers are not unlike the most extreme of the Trump followers. They all need a reality check.

    So Chet, join his campaign and go into blue collar working neighborhoods and listen to what they have to say about "free stuff" and socialism. It might surprise you. I listened to hundreds of them.

    Schmidt, The biggest critics of welfare, social programs and "free stuff" are the working poor and the comfortable middle class. "Free stuff does not rise to the level of serious discussion involving economic inequalities . Skin in the game is your position on entitlements. But if you could overlook your position to see that Free Stuff is the road to prosperity and would benefit everybody you might give it a chance. Trump feels free stuff is the solution because he gives a lot of free money through tax cuts. Conservative principles do not lead to prosperity. Conservative principles stifle an economy because cutting spending is death to an economy. Using Free Stuff and Socialism has nothing to do with the current conditions except building knee jerk reactions. Other than the shock value of the word socialism this country has digressed from a mixed socialist capitalist economy. So there is a long way to go just to get back to the prosperous days of 90% tax brackets and regulations like those outlawing usury laws, 50 years of conservative influences have removed opportunity and created unbelievable poverty for the people raised to fight and die for the country. The sad part is the country could be thriving with lots of FREE STUFF as a result of an expanding growing income tax revenue. Sad that the upper incomes chose poverty and mystery for the working poor while they stagnate fortunes in self serving foundations and trusts. The upper incomes could choose jobs producing investments in stead of stagnating fortunes . But making money work would be too much effort so they choose the easy way and stagnate money in foundations and relegate the poor to misery and suffering. The 50s and 60s were runaway prosperity. Thank goodness the country was saved from decadence and decay by the Conservatives.

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    Schmidt from your post:

    Your link says:

    "U.S. Voters Don’t Want Socialist or Very Old President"

    You know that is a bold faced lie.

    I am sure a lot of people Don’t Want Socialist or Very Old President. But that is far from the truth as you posted.

    Not fair on your part to imply all voters think that.

    Only 25 percent of respondents ranked “socialist” as a desirable trait for a candidate. Only 37 percent said “someone over 75” was desirable, according to the survey, released on Sunday

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    Dutch said: "but instead want things which costs loads of money." Dutch things that cost loads of money is spending. Money spent is not wasted.

    Money spent is an economy promoting prosperity.

    Additionally Bernie has proposed a transactional tax on certain trades. That is additional revenue. Bernie wanting things that cost loads of money is a step toward prosperity.

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    Dammit Chet -- Go back and re read what I wrote. I quoted a short paragraph from an article that discussed the results of a reputable Wall Street Journal/NBC poll. I put in quotation marks what I lifted from the article. I never quoted the heading of the article. All I did was use one paragraph lifted from the article.

    Now you go around telling me I'm a liar for quoting from the facts of the article. I never used the header in my post. You did. And then attributed it to me.

    I get tired of you grabbing and cherry picking lines out of my posts without the full context. My point is that the Americans polled do not want a socialist as president. That's a fact. That same poll also said they would not want someone over 75 as president. That's also a fact. Bernie doesn't pass either test.

    I am 72 and healthy, but I admit that I would not have the stamina to stand the stress of the job of the presidency. That's why I discount both Bernie and Joe Biden. We have some 20 Democratic Party candidates for president representing diversity and youth. The party is in bad shape if we have to recycle a couple of old white guys to go up against another old white guy.

    People just need to do their homework and study the candidates -- what are their ideas and how can they make them doable. If we're too lazy to do that, then we deserve another four years of Donald Trump.

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    Schmidt, You never give up proclaiming innocence and then you turn right around and violate all the credit you think you deserve. You just said:

    "My point is that the Americans polled do not want a socialist as president."

    That is totally erroneous but you insist on tilting facts your way. Only some people don't want a socialist for president. Just because you think free stuff is wrong you can't read something and then misquote it to enforce your opinion. I am not cherry picking anything. I just picked out an egregious distortion by you and called you on it. Right now I am thinking that you believe all the people polled do not want a socialist for president. No Schmidt , all the people are not opposed to having a socialist for President. This is not the 50s and people are getting fed up having to choose between better dead than red and demanding a fair chance to earn a living wage. McCarthyism is dead and people are fed up . In 2015 I gave Bernie no chance at all of lasting more than 2 months. People are fed up.

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    Schmidt Wrote:

    Dammit Chet -- Go back and re read what I wrote. I quoted a short paragraph from an article that discussed the results of a reputable Wall Street Journal/NBC poll. I put in quotation marks what I lifted from the article. I never quoted the heading of the article. All I did was use one paragraph lifted from the article.

    Now you go around telling me I'm a liar for quoting from the facts of the article. I never used the header in my post. You did. And then attributed it to me.

    I get tired of you grabbing and cherry picking lines out of my posts without the full context. My point is that the Americans polled do not want a socialist as president. That's a fact. That same poll also said they would not want someone over 75 as president. That's also a fact. Bernie doesn't pass either test.

    I am 72 and healthy, but I admit that I would not have the stamina to stand the stress of the job of the presidency. That's why I discount both Bernie and Joe Biden. We have some 20 Democratic Party candidates for president representing diversity and youth. The party is in bad shape if we have to recycle a couple of old white guys to go up against another old white guy.

    People just need to do their homework and study the candidates -- what are their ideas and how can they make them doable. If we're too lazy to do that, then we deserve another four years of Donald Trump.

    Yes Schmidt my view as well, but as I said, that I wonder if any of the candidates can beat the Trump "mafia". Also having an"unified" message will help.