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Donald Trump Tax Returns

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    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/05/trump-tax-returns-congress-strategy-1145767

    According to this article, congress has the legal right to request the tax return of anyone, but they can't make it public very easily.

    The legal opinions are mixed, and even if IRS ultimately is ordered by the court to hand over Donald Trump's tax return, Trump legal team is likely able to make it a 2+ year battle, thus the after the 2020 election.

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    wwjd Wrote:

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/05/trump-tax-returns-congress-strategy-1145767

    According to this article, congress has the legal right to request the tax return of anyone, but they can't make it public very easily.

    The legal opinions are mixed, and even if IRS ultimately is ordered by the court to hand over Donald Trump's tax return, Trump legal team is likely able to make it a 2+ year battle, thus the after the 2020 election.

    It again shows that our rules and laws need an drastic overhaul ; especially the non existing laws which should apply to Presidents. Only in an "banana republic" is such the case; make some worthless rules, have the lawyers screw with it; the result is known. An laughable country for sure.

    First of all this should be part of the "vetting" process, before someone is allowed even to run; now after 2 years they are asking for it again, while during the first time they asked for it they should have said: ( if there was an"black and white law") Then you can't become or run for President. Full stop. As with everything here related to "rules" or "laws" they are "half baked" So when is someone going to create the correct laws? Over 300 years?

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    Dutch Wrote:

    First of all this should be part of the "vetting" process, before someone is allowed even to run; now after 2 years they are asking for it again, while during the first time they asked for it they should have said: ( if there was an"black and white law") Then you can't become or run for President. Full stop. As with everything here related to "rules" or "laws" they are "half baked" So when is someone going to create the correct laws? Over 300 years?

    What kind of vetting process would you like to see put in place?

    What kind of laws do you think should be created?

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    Tomorrow is the deadline for the IRS to release Trump's tax returns (4-10-2019). The decision is in the hands of the IRS commissionaire. Today, he was questioned by Ways and Means committee if he was planning to release Trump's tax returns. His response was that the decision has not been made..... It was very very very clear that the White House was leaning on him extremely heavily not to release any documents related to Donald Trump; it was my observation that the White House told him they would not allow him to release the documents EVER, even if the court ordered him to, he was expected to defy all laws and court orders.

    Don't expect Donald Trump's returns to be made public. The IRS commissionaire is likely to release a statement tomorrow that its a legal issue that needs to be settled in the courts, not by the IRS.

    His hands were shaking as if someone what holding a gun to his head, and about to execute him if he screwed up his answers. It truly looked like he was under huge pressure and about to shit his pants

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    wwjd Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote:

    First of all this should be part of the "vetting" process, before someone is allowed even to run; now after 2 years they are asking for it again, while during the first time they asked for it they should have said: ( if there was an"black and white law") Then you can't become or run for President. Full stop. As with everything here related to "rules" or "laws" they are "half baked" So when is someone going to create the correct laws? Over 300 years?

    What kind of vetting process would you like to see put in place?

    What kind of laws do you think should be created?

    The "vetting" process should have an mandatory "check list" ; not just an "political" or "polarized" objective. Such checklist should "dot" all the things which we are now stuck with( like Trump and "incompetence"), The "checklist should contain these subjects but likely much more: education, total background (as hopefully Mueller did), life experience, international experience, accomplishments, knowledge of the "laws", history knowledge of the world, knowing "cultures", has leader qualities, is flexible, is not an religious fanatic, is not corrupt, does not love money, stands with both feet on the ground, is not an "professional" liar, as well shows the tax returns (mandatory), has morals, integrity, open minded etc. and so on. Such "check list" should be made "independent" without "party" preferences.

    Related to laws; you should know that by now,which laws don't work or are outdated; like the "voting" laws.

    First of all "votes" should count, get rid of the "electoral college", no more "money" or "Pac's" ( each candidate can only spent the same limited t.b.d. amount) no lobbying or influence peddling, candidates should not be "billionaires" in order to prevent that they use their position to expand their wealth and power over the people (as is now the case) etc.

    How about decent "gun" laws, healthcare laws, without lobbying, environmental laws, proper water management laws, better education laws, which teach kids how to manage their lives in an changing world, proper pollution laws (all undone by Trump) Healthcare laws, which makes sure "health" is the issue, not the"money"; rip offs of the "lobbyists", pharma or doctors and ridiculous "adds" which only raise the price of drugs.

    Sorry this is only the top of the iceberg; the biggest problem is here that "money" is injected into everything. The goal has never been to get an "healthy society" which is well educated about "life", the world around us, as well our standing in the world. It is the "island" mentality (blinders on) which is detrimental by "sticking" to the old ways". Britain suffers from the same problems, because it is also an island and sticks to its 1500's laws and rules; put an wig on your head then you are a judge. Their problems with the EU is not surprising; they live in another world as the US as well. ( the only two countries who uses inches, feet, lbs etc.)

    Probably you will call the above "ranting" as well, but at least I try to answer your questions. Have a great day!

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    New York Times, February 8 , 2018: To Lead I.R.S., Trump Nominates Lawyer Who Battled It

    The topic of this thread is Trump's tax returns.

    Back in 2018 when Trump nominated Charles Rettig to be the next commissioner of the IRS, Rettig was known as a lawyer who continually attacked the IRS including major lawsuits against the IRS claiming the IRS had "wrongly assessed". However, the real reason Trump probably nominated him stems from his support for the president's position to not release his tax returns while they are under audit.

    "Writing for Forbes in 2016, Mr. Rettig said he would not advise Mr. Trump, then a candidate, to release his tax returns while an audit was continuing. “Is there any legal impediment to Trump publicly releasing his tax returns? Absolutely not,” Mr. Rettig wrote. “Would any experienced tax lawyer representing Trump in an I.R.S. audit advise him to publicly release his tax returns during the audit? Absolutely not.”"

    This is what Trump does in all his nominations looking for people who might be sympathetic to his personal circumstances. Rettig will do whatever it takes to stop the release of Trump's tax returns, but will he defy the law in doing so? That's what Trump expects him to do.

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    Lawmakers in at least 25 states have introduced bills that would require presidential candidates to release their tax returns to appear on the 2020 ballot in that state — a clear swipe at President Trump, the only modern president who's refused to release his personal tax returns.

    It is unlikely this legislation will pass in any states — the likeliest would be Hawaii. And none of the states that Trump won in 2016 have a Democratic-controlled state legislature, so he could just pass on being in the ballot in those blue states even if they did approve it.

    https://www.axios.com/states-tax-return-laws-presidential-2020-trump-88e84cce-7214-409d-b4c7-a24aad919bdb.html

    It is also quite likely that it may be unconstitutional, at the federal level, to require presidential candidates to release their taxes.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/3-reasons-its-unconstitutional-to-require-presidential-candidates-to-release-their-tax-returns

    Even if Trump DOES get on the 2020 ballot, I have a feeling that Nancy Pelosi has a few tricks up her sleeve that would prevent him from being re-elected.

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    "I have a feeling that Nancy Pelosi has a few tricks up her sleeve that would prevent him from being re-elected."

    Don't forget that when he announced in 2015 that he was running the majority consensus was he had zero chance of winning. Unless we get Bernie running promising everything that would make life good for the working poor Trump will get elected again. He has a built in mechanism that endears his supporters to him regardless of his actions. Try some moderate approach to healthcare and Trump wins even though it is provable he would make health care, any degree of health care, out of reach for 50 or more % of USA CITIZENS .

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    Chet -- Off topic again, but in other words you are implying that the Bernie or Busters will not vote for a moderate Democrat, and that the possible swing voters from Independents and moderate Republicans do not matter. Is that what you are implying? I won't argue on the Bernie or Busters. I saw them in 2016 and so far they are the same in 2020.

    Did you not know that it was the moderate Democrats that were responsible for the Blue Wave of 2018? The far left socialists did not grow the party in Congress. They just replaced moderate Democrats in cobalt blue districts, but did not flip one single Republican held seat in a pink or red district. That's a fact.

    I sometimes wonder if Sanders would be happy to see the Supreme Court scuttle the Affordable Care Act so that he can opportunistically push his Medicare for All Act to the front. Many of the candidates are hedging or being wishy washy on their early endorsement of Sanders Medicare for All Act as they learn what the public is learning.

    In a way, Sanders is a very astute and ruthless politician in selling his socialist dream. I'll give him credit for that. In a sense he is conducting a giant con game on much of the American public that believe his "promises".

    Still there are 12 debates ahead and many of the 18 or so Dems in the debate will not be as kind to Bernie as Hillary was. They will not give him a pass.

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    Schmidt Wrote:

    This is what Trump does in all his nominations looking for people who might be sympathetic to his personal circumstances. Rettig will do whatever it takes to stop the release of Trump's tax returns, but will he defy the law in doing so? That's what Trump expects him to do.

    It is becoming more and more evident that Trump is willing to demand that people break the law on his behalf. He is betting the lives of others that when they break the law they will not be prosecuted.

    Trump's intuitive behavior:

    Bet 1) All laws are irrelevant; laws are imaginary, society-created, boundaries that most people are afraid to cross, Trump is willing to cross all boundaries that don't cost him anything. May cost others when he does, but that is their problem, not his (see long list of 100s victims). Often he gets others to break laws that are to his advantage.

    Bet 2) Those who enforce laws don't have the guts to enforce laws as it relates to people under his protection, such as IRS Commissionaire. If the IRS Commissionaire were to break the law, who is going to enforce the law that has been broken? Trump's bet is that nobody will and everything just become and endless court battle.

    Bet 3) Game the system. Use the system against itself. Tie things up in the court system so that he ultimately wins, or at worst, he never looses anything of value to him.

    Bet 4) Chaos, dysfunction, fear, and confusion gives him the advantage in all situations. The more the better. The worse things get for everyone else, the better Trump feels about himself and his circumstances.

    Bet 5) Everyone is expendable. There is a pecking order, people on his team get protection, but once off his team, he turns on them.

    These simple intuitive approaches, combine with the powers of being president, are huge intimidation threats to anyone who he considers is in his way on anything he wants to do.

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    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/mnuchin-says-treasury-won-t-meet-democrats-deadline-trump-s-n993246

    As expected, Mnuchin refused to release Trump taxes. To avoid breaking the law, he used the term "under review", which is not legally the same as saying "no". I suspect it will be under review until there is court order forcing him to release the tax returns.

    The only way might see the Trump tax returns would be if the Supreme courted order them released. And if that day comes, that would be the end of Donald Trump. He won't be able to survive the shit that in there.

    And we should expect the Mueller report to be heavily redacted in all areas relate to Trump's tax returns

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    wwjd Wrote:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/mnuchin-says-treasury-won-t-meet-democrats-deadline-trump-s-n993246

    As expected, Mnuchin refused to release Trump taxes. To avoid breaking the law, he used the term "under review", which is not legally the same as saying "no". I suspect it will be under review until there is court order forcing him to release the tax returns.

    The only way might see the Trump tax returns would be if the Supreme courted order them released. And if that day comes, that would be the end of Donald Trump. He won't be able to survive the shit that in there.

    And we should expect the Mueller report to be heavily redacted in all areas relate to Trump's tax returns

    We'll wait and see; like you say in your previous mail it is part of the "game" he's playing all the time; "stonewalling" everything.
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    As the Washington Post reports, Mnuchin officially refused to turn over Trump's taxes to the House Ways and Means Committee after consulting with the Justice Department (i.e. Barr). "They had concluded that it would not be lawful for the Trump administration to turn over the tax returns because of potential violations of privacy" and furthermore that the requests do not "serve a legitimate legislative purpose”.

    "A number of legal experts have said it would be unprecedented for Mnuchin to refuse to turn over the tax returns, as the power for lawmakers to seek the returns is written explicitly in a 1924 law."

    This should not come as a surprise. As the USA Today reports, Trump has a long history of avoiding taxes by going to court.

    USA Today Exclusive: More than 100 lawsuits, disputes over taxes tied to Trump and his companies

    This is Trump's MO...fight every property tax or other taxes in the courts. He has full time lawyers that just drag these suits out for years. His federal taxes likewise are probably full of disputes, particularly as it pertains to valuations of his properties for tax purposes versus values for obtaining loans.

    When Trump says his taxes are under audit, I tend to believe him knowing how he refuses to settl

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    Schmidt Wrote:

    As the Washington Post reports, Mnuchin officially refused to turn over Trump's taxes to the House Ways and Means Committee after consulting with the Justice Department (i.e. Barr). "They had concluded that it would not be lawful for the Trump administration to turn over the tax returns because of potential violations of privacy" and furthermore that the requests do not "serve a legitimate legislative purpose”.

    "A number of legal experts have said it would be unprecedented for Mnuchin to refuse to turn over the tax returns, as the power for lawmakers to seek the returns is written explicitly in a 1924 law."

    This should not come as a surprise. As the USA Today reports, Trump has a long history of avoiding taxes by going to court.

    USA Today Exclusive: More than 100 lawsuits, disputes over taxes tied to Trump and his companies

    This is Trump's MO...fight every property tax or other taxes in the courts. He has full time lawyers that just drag these suits out for years. His federal taxes likewise are probably full of disputes, particularly as it pertains to valuations of his properties for tax purposes versus values for obtaining loans.

    When Trump says his taxes are under audit, I tend to believe him knowing how he refuses to settl

    Thus in other words an President is "above the law" as well can be as corrupt as any "dictator'.Of course it is very clear he wants to "hide" everything because he's "guilty" all the way by not paying his taxes as it should be.

    Congratulation America, you proved again that you only want "corrupt" leaders, as in any banana republic.

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    Yes as I've said so many times; the guy never did pay his taxes; if so they were full of lies. Now there is lots of "hoepla" on TV about it ; but yeah if I say so, no one "blinks" . So I'm just shaking my head about this "dumb" country as well its dumb "vetting" system as well "no-laws" except the 1800 one's . I also said "all of this won't end well"; I hope you all accept the truth about that the "system" is the cause. This country is barely 300 years old, but still has not learned anything; let's have some more wars as an cover up.