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Mueller elected Trump.

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  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
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    Pensacola, FL
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    Trump always calling out fake news. Well. unless a miracle happens Mueller validated Trumps fake news claim by not charging Trump with collusion. Trump is going to ride that for all its worth and nobody can stop him. He probably won't even go to any debates. Trump is a phenomenal accident .
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
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    Portland, OR
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    Collusion isn't a crime. Conspiracy is, but we won't know exactly why Mueller didn't charge anyone in Trump's orbit of conspiracy until Barr releases the full report to Congress.

    And it's not like anything would have changed even if Mueller found irrefutable evidence that Donald himself personally conspired with Putin to steal a Presidential election because Republicans only care about one thing and one thing only - power.

    So in that respect, I'm glad Mueller didn't find that Trump conspired with a hostile foreign power in 2016 because we'd be in a full blown Constitutional crisis and I don't trust that Senate Republicans would have done a damn thing about it.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
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    Pensacola, FL
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    "And it's not like anything would have changed "

    You think so?? How about Trump not getting elected president in 2020?? How many times have we thought this is surly the end of Trumps political career? Now he is capitalising on the results of an investigation that was touted as being untouchable and would almost guarantee charges against Trump. And the results are totally opposite with Trump running around the country blaring his exoneration. Great day for the swindler in chief. Watch the approval polls.

    Said jaredsxtn : "I'm glad Mueller didn't find that Trump conspired with a hostile foreign power in 2016 "

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote:

    "And it's not like anything would have changed "

    You think so?? How about Trump not getting elected president in 2020?? How many times have we thought this is surly the end of Trumps political career? Now he is capitalising on the results of an investigation that was touted as being untouchable and would almost guarantee charges against Trump. And the results are totally opposite with Trump running around the country blaring his exoneration. Great day for the swindler in chief. Watch the approval polls.

    Said jaredsxtn : "I'm glad Mueller didn't find that Trump conspired with a hostile foreign power in 2016 "

    Chet you are right. Jared's statement is wrong. Thus he's "glad" that Trump can continue with his stupidity, probably for another 6 years. Trump is still fooling around with foreign dictators and love's them. Sorry, Mueller is an "traitor" his pact with Barr shows that clearly. Also his "timing" of releasing his findings very is suspicious; he could have waited until the "timing" was right . Also Barr said he will "clean up" Mueller's report together with Mueller; this must be an huge lie; why would the "expert" writer allow another to mess/undercut his work? He did not "finish" the job either; way too many loose ends. In other words any next President is thus also allowed to do what Trump did/does. Mueller was praised for being "impartial", I don't believe that anymore; he's either threatened or shows his real colors of an Trump Republican and has become part of the cult; probably also is Catholic.

    Sorry this country's government is in an huge mess; growing by the day, due to incompetence.

  • Liberal Democrat
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    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Consider this. If the election were held today, Trump would win, and by some estimates he would win in a landslide. Trump has never stopped campaigning and keeping his base intact and loyal since he won in 2016. Impeaching Trump would not change that thinking one iota; in fact it would further alienate his base to come out to vote in super high numbers as Trump played the victim.

    I agree with Nancy Pelosi that impeachment is off the table. It's a choice between enduring him now for another year or so, or putting together a formidable Democratic Party campaign focusing on the issues that matter to Americans -- health care is No. 1. It's how we won the midterms with moderate Democrats flipping red and purple Republican held seats. The right candidates with a unified message can make the 2020 election an even bigger win for Democrats across the board.

    I bolded the "unified message". We do not have a unified message right now with Bernie Sanders and his Our Revolution doing what they did in 2016 selling his brand of "socialism for all" and applying purity tests to centrist Democrats. The Bernie folks and the Social Democrats can make inroads in cobalt blue districts, but they cannot win a single purple or red district or state. Their message does not expand the party. It "stove pipes" it.

    Only the moderate Democrats, the pragmatists, can expand the party by appealing to Independents (the largest voting force in the nation) and moderate Republicans who are turned off by Trumpism. The more the Democratic Party moves to the left, the smaller it gets.

    My opinion...

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
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    Pensacola, FL
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    I think the economy is on the verge of chaos. Stopped at the bakery yesterday and every item was $1.95. Big Mac and double quarter pounder with Cheese, just the sandwiches cost $13.95. Major food chains cutting back. Trump may see trouble there but Schmidt says if election were held today Trump would probably win. Agree. That is a far cry from last summer when we thought we had a landslide potential in both houses. The worst possible gain for Trump is now he can superblast "fake news".

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Schmidt Wrote:

    Consider this. If the election were held today, Trump would win, and by some estimates he would win in a landslide. Trump has never stopped campaigning and keeping his base intact and loyal since he won in 2016. Impeaching Trump would not change that thinking one iota; in fact it would further alienate his base to come out to vote in super high numbers as Trump played the victim.

    I agree with Nancy Pelosi that impeachment is off the table. It's a choice between enduring him now for another year or so, or putting together a formidable Democratic Party campaign focusing on the issues that matter to Americans -- health care is No. 1. It's how we won the midterms with moderate Democrats flipping red and purple Republican held seats. The right candidates with a unified message can make the 2020 election an even bigger win for Democrats across the board.

    I bolded the "unified message". We do not have a unified message right now with Bernie Sanders and his Our Revolution doing what they did in 2016 selling his brand of "socialism for all" and applying purity tests to centrist Democrats. The Bernie folks and the Social Democrats can make inroads in cobalt blue districts, but they cannot win a single purple or red district or state. Their message does not expand the party. It "stove pipes" it.

    Only the moderate Democrats, the pragmatists, can expand the party by appealing to Independents (the largest voting force in the nation) and moderate Republicans who are turned off by Trumpism. The more the Democratic Party moves to the left, the smaller it gets.

    My opinion...

    A "unified message" Wow when will that happen?. Which ever way you look at the present candidates or their message, it will "bounce off" of the Con-man in charge ; he will ridicule it and make a show of it; he gets them even to chant to jail A.O.C.

    Looking at the "tricks" of the con-man; such as how he manipulated to get Kavanaugh elected via his Deutsche Bank connections (see my threat about this) as well manipulated the "timing" of getting Barr in position and likely did something to scare Mueller to release the report now as soon as Barr was barely in position, it is all coincidental and "engineered" by Trump well in advance. He's an expert in "manipulation", but the Dem's have no means to fight this and are "manipulated" all the time.

    Therefore 2020 ( still plenty of time for Trump to plan to manipulate that election) may be an easy win for him, as he likely will play the same "game" as with Kavanaugh and Mueller/Barr. He knows now how to "rig" elections; like in FL and GA as well N. Carolina.

    This picture may end as the Titanic did. Amen

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
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    Portland, OR
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    Chet - I stopped responding to your posts awhile ago because it's maddening how you take sentence fragments and completely twist peoples words around. I took the bait on this thread and actually tried to engage in a genuine discussion, but apparently I need to go back to my self-imposed moratorium of responding to your threads.

    Straw man logical fallacies annoy me more than any other.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
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    Portland, OR
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    Dutch Wrote: Chet you are right. Jared's statement is wrong. Thus he's "glad" that Trump can continue with his stupidity, probably for another 6 years.

    Where, exactly, did I write about being "glad" that Donald is our President?

    What I did write is that I'm gad Mueller didn't find evidence that the sitting President of the United Sates illegally conspired with a hostile foreign power to steal a Presidential election. The reason I'm "glad" is not because I love Donald and think he's the greatest President in the history of the world, but instead because I can actually imagine the Constitutional crisis we'd be sprinting head first into if Mueller did find irrefutable evidence of a conspiracy.

    I know you hate our system of governance, but it's the system of governance we have. We can argue about how shitty of a system we have till the cows come home, but that's not going to change a thing. In this system a President serves for four years and can only be removed early by impeachment in the House and conviction in the Senate. That, or he resigns or dies. That's just the way it is and the sooner you accept it the easier it will be for you.

    Back to my point that I'm "glad" Mueller didn't find evidence of conspiracy. I'm "glad" he didn't because I don't trust Senate Republicans to stand up for the rule of law and do what's best for our country. You think things are bad now? How bad do you think they would get if Mueller found irrefutable evidence that Donald conspired with a hostile foreign power to steal a Presidential election and Senate Republicans just shrugged?

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Schmidt Wrote: My opinion...
    I wish the far lefties listened to your opinions more often.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: Chet you are right. Jared's statement is wrong. Thus he's "glad" that Trump can continue with his stupidity, probably for another 6 years.

    Where, exactly, did I write about being "glad" that Donald is our President?

    What I did write is that I'm gad Mueller didn't find evidence that the sitting President of the United Sates illegally conspired with a hostile foreign power to steal a Presidential election. The reason I'm "glad" is not because I love Donald and think he's the greatest President in the history of the world, but instead because I can actually imagine the Constitutional crisis we'd be sprinting head first into if Mueller did find irrefutable evidence of a conspiracy.

    I know you hate our system of governance, but it's the system of governance we have. We can argue about how shitty of a system we have till the cows come home, but that's not going to change a thing. In this system a President serves for four years and can only be removed early by impeachment in the House and conviction in the Senate. That, or he resigns or dies. That's just the way it is and the sooner you accept it the easier it will be for you.

    Back to my point that I'm "glad" Mueller didn't find evidence of conspiracy. I'm "glad" he didn't because I don't trust Senate Republicans to stand up for the rule of law and do what's best for our country. You think things are bad now? How bad do you think they would get if Mueller found irrefutable evidence that Donald conspired with a hostile foreign power to steal a Presidential election and Senate Republicans just shrugged?

    Sorry Jared you stated so on your thread of 3/29 19 (here above) that you are "glad".But yeah you like to have him for another 6 years? He's now "bolder" than ever and will "smash" every rule in the book, because he will get away with it until now.

    If he would have been "convicted" now; then he likely would get the "message" where the "red" line is. Now he's going to try how far he can go. Even if "indictment" or "impeachment" is not possible because of the obstruction of the GOP then there still should be other means to set him straight. If not then we will end up with an "dictatorship".

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:

    Chet - I stopped responding to your posts awhile ago because it's maddening how you take sentence fragments and completely twist peoples words around. I took the bait on this thread and actually tried to engage in a genuine discussion, but apparently I need to go back to my self-imposed moratorium of responding to your threads.

    Straw man logical fallacies annoy me more than any other.

    It's a discussion forum. I never imposed a moratorium on your posting for the the almost two years you bombarded me with your subjective shotgun style. It's a discussion form. What you write does not have the immunity of an epitath. It is a discussion forum. You can't claim license for something that entices comment.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        

    Okay. Muller did not "elect" Trump or re-elect him for that matter. As was explained to me over at RadioFreeLiberal.com there is a difference between the independent counsel statute which ended and a special counsel. Mueller put together information. The indictments he got against a host of Trump people were related to the investigation in terms of lying or lying to congress and other things. He finished his report on Trump and the campaign and turned it over to the justice department. Trumps' handpicked "Roy Cohn" issued a 4 page summary which is utter bullshit because he likely not only could not have finished the report, he likely didn't read it at all imo. Barr is who may have re-elected Trump.

    Now as regards allegations that the Democratic Party has moved too far left such is bullshit. The healthcare issue where more people favor what Democrats are offering certainly isn't far left. Other industrialized nations have far more programs to help their people than we do because the Democratic Party has failed in framing their policies and debate. Instead they have allowed the right and apparently others to buy into the bleating of "Socialism!" every other minute when the vast majority of the populace doesn't even know what the word means. Not only that the so-called far left which does not control the Democratic Party has not once put forth policies or legislation calling for nationalization of production or even of healthcare like the NHS system in England. The Democratic Party was successful in the congressional elections in 2018 because they energized their base. Calmly explaining positions along with showing sincere fervor and energy is needed.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
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    Portland, OR
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    Dutch Wrote: Sorry Jared you stated so on your thread of 3/29 19 (here above) that you are "glad".But yeah you like to have him for another 6 years? He's now "bolder" than ever and will "smash" every rule in the book, because he will get away with it until now.

    I wrote two paragraphs before saying I was glad Mueller didn't indict Donald in which I briefly explained why I felt that way.

    Donald has already smashed every rule in the book. Those are things Bernie or busters should have thought about before overruling the will of the people because everyone who voted for him knew exactly what they were getting. However, investigating Donald's rule smashing was not Mueller's mandate. It was to determine if Donald or his campaign criminally conspired with a hostile foreign power in the 2016 election. I highlighted the word "criminally" because there are a whole lot of things that are taboo, but not necessarily illegal under U.S. law.

    Getting back to why I'm "glad Mueller didn't find that Trump conspired with a hostile foreign power." If you continued reading you would have noticed the reason why I feel that way. I don't trust Senate Republicans would do anything to hold Donald accountable, even if he illegally conspired with a hostile foreign power to steal the 2016 election. So it's a good thing that Mueller didn't find a grand conspiracy because we'd have an illegitimate President who came to power illegally and nothing we could do about it because Senate Republicans wouldn't have cared.

    Once again - all things Bernie or busters should have thought about before overruling the will of the people.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: Sorry Jared you stated so on your thread of 3/29 19 (here above) that you are "glad".But yeah you like to have him for another 6 years? He's now "bolder" than ever and will "smash" every rule in the book, because he will get away with it until now.

    I wrote two paragraphs before saying I was glad Mueller didn't indict Donald in which I briefly explained why I felt that way.

    Donald has already smashed every rule in the book. Those are things Bernie or busters should have thought about before overruling the will of the people because everyone who voted for him knew exactly what they were getting. However, investigating Donald's rule smashing was not Mueller's mandate. It was to determine if Donald or his campaign criminally conspired with a hostile foreign power in the 2016 election. I highlighted the word "criminally" because there are a whole lot of things that are taboo, but not necessarily illegal under U.S. law.

    Getting back to why I'm "glad Mueller didn't find that Trump conspired with a hostile foreign power." If you continued reading you would have noticed the reason why I feel that way. I don't trust Senate Republicans would do anything to hold Donald accountable, even if he illegally conspired with a hostile foreign power to steal the 2016 election. So it's a good thing that Mueller didn't find a grand conspiracy because we'd have an illegitimate President who came to power illegally and nothing we could do about it because Senate Republicans wouldn't have cared.

    Once again - all things Bernie or busters should have thought about before overruling the will of the people.

    Sorry Jared; the Bernie thing is not the issue right now; Trump is. I'm only saying that the result is that the "baby" can from now on can do what he wants and who is going to stop him?