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Rep Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's populist appeal

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    Carlitos -- MSNBC's Ali Velshi had a segment on Rep Ocasio-Cortez and how her support of Modern Monetary Theory is becoming more populist in the progressive community. He explained MMT with a series of charts and then brought on Obama's former Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers Austan Goolsbee to discuss MMT further. This is rather unprecedented on MSNBC, which seldom delved into MMT in the past. Ocasio-Cortez has changed that.

    You can watch their discussion at the above link. We also discussed Ocasio-Cortez and MMT in the thread, the New Green Deal, but I thought it might be more appropriate here.

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    I have criticized the hoarding and stagnating money being the cause of lack of prosperity. I think this Wikipedia quote says MMT agrees with me.

    " unemployment as the evidence that a currency monopolist is restricting the supply of the financial assets"

    en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Monetary...

    If you have to call it MMT to get money to spend then good and do it.

    Warning to purist:

    "Spending is a socialist attitude".

    tax-and-spend

    noun

    1.a policy, usually associated with the political left, of increasing taxes in order to fund an increase in government spending.

    "they remain committed to their tax-and-spend philosophy"

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    Chet -- You cannot grab one line out of Wikipedia and hold it up as "MMT philosophy". As much as I have spent time reading the many articles that Carlitos has shared on this website in addition to his own tutorials, it is not an easy concept to grasp because it requires a total realignment of one's brain as it pertains to economic thinking. What many Republicans have latched onto is the concept that "deficits don't matter", but they use it more for political opportunity while in office, and then subscribe to just the opposite notion while they are out of office.

    Politicians like Sanders or Ocasio-Cortez that want to adopt MMT economic theory in their platforms do so at their own peril because, as I have argued with Carlitos, perhaps 95 percent or more of the country does not think in those terms. Most Americans do not differentiate between household debt and government debt. It's like teaching English to a class of Chinese students.

    I like much of what MMT has to offer, but I am very cognizant of the fact that Ocasio-Cortez may as well be speaking Chinese to most Americans when she pushes MMT on the skeptical American public. Most voters know little about the candidates views on the issues of the day, let alone economic theory. They cannot even balance their own check book and have little discipline in spending.

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    Schmidt Wrote:

    Chet -- You cannot grab one line out of Wikipedia and hold it up as "MMT philosophy". As much as I have spent time reading the many articles that Carlitos has shared on this website in addition to his own tutorials, it is not an easy concept to grasp because it requires a total realignment of one's brain as it pertains to economic thinking. What many Republicans have latched onto is the concept that "deficits don't matter", but they use it more for political opportunity while in office, and then subscribe to just the opposite notion while they are out of office.

    Politicians like Sanders or Ocasio-Cortez that want to adopt MMT economic theory in their platforms do so at their own peril because, as I have argued with Carlitos, perhaps 95 percent or more of the country does not think in those terms. Most Americans do not differentiate between household debt and government debt. It's like teaching English to a class of Chinese students.

    I like much of what MMT has to offer, but I am very cognizant of the fact that Ocasio-Cortez may as well be speaking Chinese to most Americans when she pushes MMT on the skeptical American public. Most voters know little about the candidates views on the issues of the day, let alone economic theory. They cannot even balance their own check book and have little discipline in spending.

    No Schmidt, MMT has it wrong; the "world" does not work that way; you can't run up debt without consequences, especially "debt" for which you got nothing back; you should know all about that with your experience in Venezuela.

    Neither does "printing" money. Sound "money" management will lead to prosperity, not "waste"

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    Schmidt Wrote:

    Chet -- You cannot grab one line out of Wikipedia and hold it up as "MMT philosophy". As much as I have spent time reading the many articles that Carlitos has shared on this website in addition to his own tutorials, it is not an easy concept to grasp because it requires a total realignment of one's brain as it pertains to economic thinking. What many Republicans have latched onto is the concept that "deficits don't matter", but they use it more for political opportunity while in office, and then subscribe to just the opposite notion while they are out of office.

    Politicians like Sanders or Ocasio-Cortez that want to adopt MMT economic theory in their platforms do so at their own peril because, as I have argued with Carlitos, perhaps 95 percent or more of the country does not think in those terms. Most Americans do not differentiate between household debt and government debt. It's like teaching English to a class of Chinese students.

    I like much of what MMT has to offer, but I am very cognizant of the fact that Ocasio-Cortez may as well be speaking Chinese to most Americans when she pushes MMT on the skeptical American public. Most voters know little about the candidates views on the issues of the day, let alone economic theory. They cannot even balance their own check book and have little discipline in spending.

    Schmidt, I don't have time to explain what is the obvious. 22 Trillion dollar debt and the only way out is a growing GDP and radically progressive tax plan. MMT has no solutions. It is a whimsical aberration of a description by a man from big money. If you want something you earn the money and pay for it. That is what this country has to do. Put money to work.
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    Schmidt put it in clear terms. The challenges are huge. Perhaps the new theories need to be explained and accepted by the masses and not just to 25 people on a message board. Those huge numbers who don't understand or accept it.... They are voters. Sounds like it's time for a public service / information address.
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    I saw that MSNBC piece. It’s hilarious listening to commentators wrap their head around it.

    That B.I. article you mentioned did more to get attention to MMT than all previous 2 decades worth of work of now thousands of people.

    The hit pieces keep coming from conservative, and even liberal idiots, who don’t realize that other morons have said everything they are saying in the last 2 decades and they were all taken to woodshed and debunked by empiricism and pre existing MMT literature, depending on their favor of idiocy and what they were attacking.

    Paul Krugman’s recent attempt to attack Functional Finance and MMT was especially confused. If he had a face to face debate, he would be embarrassed and destroyed. He’s met Mr. Mosler, as has Austin Goolsbee, another recent detractor.

    MMT was battle tested in the private sector and is bullet proof. The only people who have a problem with it are ignorant or subversive.

    Accounting and Finance professional associations trip over themselves to book Stephanie’s speaking engagements.

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    TJ Wrote: Schmidt put it in clear terms. The challenges are huge. Perhaps the new theories need to be explained and accepted by the masses and not just to 25 people on a message board. Those huge numbers who don't understand or accept it.... They are voters. Sounds like it's time for a public service / information address.
    The newest theories overlook turning the economies here and around the world into growing prosperous economies. I never heard Carlitos supply a growing products and services economy causing labor demand increasing wages.
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    JG There is probably nobody more left than me on this forum and JG is a wrong approach. The correct approach is rules, regulations and taxes to put money to work. Money is a zero sum fixed entity. If billions and trillions are used to play paper and finessing games then billions suffer.
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    Schmidt Wrote:

    Chet -- You cannot grab one line out of Wikipedia and hold it up as "MMT philosophy". As much as I have spent time reading the many articles that Carlitos has shared on this website in addition to his own tutorials, it is not an easy concept to grasp because it requires a total realignment of one's brain as it pertains to economic thinking. What many Republicans have latched onto is the concept that "deficits don't matter", but they use it more for political opportunity while in office, and then subscribe to just the opposite notion while they are out of office.

    Politicians like Sanders or Ocasio-Cortez that want to adopt MMT economic theory in their platforms do so at their own peril because, as I have argued with Carlitos, perhaps 95 percent or more of the country does not think in those terms. Most Americans do not differentiate between household debt and government debt. It's like teaching English to a class of Chinese students.

    I like much of what MMT has to offer, but I am very cognizant of the fact that Ocasio-Cortez may as well be speaking Chinese to most Americans when she pushes MMT on the skeptical American public. Most voters know little about the candidates views on the issues of the day, let alone economic theory. They cannot even balance their own check book and have little discipline in spending.

    Schmidt, said : "You cannot grab one line out of Wikipedia and hold it up as "MMT philosophy". "

    There is nothing incorrect about what I said. If you are fluent and versed in MMT that should have been obvious to you.

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    Chet, if you want to figure out the precise way to regulate and tax the private sector to hire everyone able and willing to work while maintaining price stability, go right ahead. MMT’s JG is far more simplistic and easier to do. And as Argentina’s and India’s limited JG programs suggest would turn the US economy into envy of world and benefit all workers.

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    Carlitos Wrote:

    Chet, if you want to figure out the precise way to regulate and tax the private sector to hire everyone able and willing to work while maintaining price stability, go right ahead. MMT’s JG is far more simplistic and easier to do. And as Argentina’s and India’s limited JG programs suggest would turn the US economy into envy of world and benefit all workers.

    I would regulate and tax the private sector into investing in jobs producing ventures. Define money as a resource and regulate/penalize any activity that hoards or stagnates money. Financiers will always be financiers and when they saw 0% Taxes on jobs producers and 80% taxes on paper trading the would create products demanding more labor. That would start higher wages. Criminalize trusts. Elementary. MMT Turbo. History is wrought with examples.
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    Just curious as to what you considering hoarding or stagnating money.

    Are checking accounts, savings accounts and CDs hoarding or stagnating money?

    Are buying government issued savings bonds hoarding or stagnating money?

    Is buying stocks and bonds in the stock market hoarding or stagnating money?

    Are retirement accounts hoarding or stagnating money?

    Are savings in a 401 K retirement account hoarding or stagnating money?

    Are investing in 529 college education accounts hoarding or stagnating money?

    Is buying gold and other precious metals hoarding or stagnating money?

    Is buying rare antiques, art, and other material things that are expected to appreciate in value hoarding or stagnating money?

    Is buying land, real estate or other property as an investment hoarding or stagnating money?

    Is buying insurance policies hoarding or stagnating money?

    Is buying a forward futures contract to minimize risk considered hoarding or stagnating money?

    I don't know what you mean by an "80 percent tax on paper trading". What is paper trading?

    I don't know what you mean by "criminalizing trusts"? What kind of trusts? Criminalizing means jail time to me.

    I have no idea what you mean by MMT Turbo? Is that supposed to mean something to the rest of us?

    I don't know what you mean by "defining money as a resource". I thought money was a medium of exchange, but if my money resided in a retirement account, I guess it could also be a resource to draw on. Oh, but is not that retirement account considered "hoarding money"? Do you have a new definition for money?

    Just wondering. I don't really understand your "economic language" (e.g. things like MMT Turbo) and "money as a resource" and such. But maybe that's just me.

    Elementary? I'm not a mind reader.

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    Examples of hoarding money are exactly the first part of your post:

    "

    Just curious as to what you considering hoarding or stagnating money.

    Are checking accounts, savings accounts and CDs hoarding or stagnating money? Yes

    Are buying government issued savings bonds hoarding or stagnating money?

    Is buying stocks and bonds in the stock market hoarding or stagnating money?

    Are retirement accounts hoarding or stagnating money? YES

    Are savings in a 401 K retirement account hoarding or stagnating money? YES

    Are investing in 529 college education accounts hoarding or stagnating money?" YES

    Yes, yes, yes. These are all forms of forcing people to pay back the money they have earned in a lifetime because the government pissed away 22 Trillion dollars. A well regulated country would have people benefiting from their labor, the same way an actor can benefit from residuals.

    Why should the lowest worker not benefit from his work that supported the country the same way the richest worker does????

    Then after the above part of your post you started listing buying examples. By definition buying and spending things is not hoarding money.

    Spending is good. There should be no reason to save in a fair economy that your work contributed to help build. Saving is giving the money you earned back to the people you earned it from so they will give some of it back to you. Saving is a curse put on people who lost the benefit of their work. Every job in an economy contributes to an economy.

    MMT is analogous to the guaranteed school loan program. There are vultures that prey on every source of easy money and they will destroy the intent of the program. Guaranteed student loans made college more expensive because colleges expanded proportionately to the amount of easy money to get more money, not provide better education.

    Spending good, saving bad, saving is a curse put on the worker because the investment of their work was stolen.

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    No one in their right mind would support the MMT method; sorry the rest of the world certainly does not follow such and never did. Just spending without limits is nuts; playing by the rules is correct; if you don't, then an country goes bankrupt or an institution; please try MMT in Venezuela it works there for sure.