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Public backlash against self driving cars


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  • Schmidt
    2018-12-31 05:17:01 PM
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    This New York Times article is about a public backlash against self driving cars being tested in Chandler, Arizona. It could be any city in America where the cars are being tested, but Chandler somehow has brought out the worst in people.

    "CHANDLER, Ariz. — The assailant slipped out of a park around noon one day in October, zeroing in on his target, which was idling at a nearby intersection — a self-driving van operated by Waymo, the driverless-car company spun out of Google.

    "He carried out his attack with an unidentified sharp object, swiftly slashing one of the tires. The suspect, identified as a white man in his 20s, then melted into the neighborhood on foot."

    At least 21 such attacks have been leveled at Waymo vans in Chandler.

    “People are lashing out justifiably," said Douglas Rushkoff, a media theorist at City University of New York and author of the book “Throwing Rocks at the Google Bus.” He likened driverless cars to robotic incarnations of scabs — workers who refuse to join strikes or who take the place of those on strike.

    “There's a growing sense that the giant corporations honing driverless technologies do not have our best interests at heart,” Mr. Rushkoff said. “Just think about the humans inside these vehicles, who are essentially training the artificial intelligence that will replace them.”

    Others worry about how reliable the technology is for the safety of their children playing in the streets. Perhaps, but there was also push back from the public when motorized vehicles displaced the horse and buggy.

  • Dutch
    2019-01-01 09:30:11 AM
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    Self driving cars aren't an solution. It is an good exercise to be behind the "wheel"; it trains your brain for quick reactions and keeps your attention and your brain trained all the time. Self driving cars makes you lazy and unhealthy as an vegetable. Of course people will say there are other methods to keep your brain active; like computer games. But yeah being on the road and in control of something (not your wife, ha ha) gives another sensation. I still like the older cars where you had to shift and use a clutch as well had no navigation; that made driving more interesting when you got lost.

    Not all renewed things make you happy! Let's start first in this country to get decent public transportation, I see that more as an priority than self driving cars.

  • Dockadams
    2019-01-01 12:34:47 PM
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    Dutch Wrote:

    Self driving cars aren't an solution. It is an good exercise to be behind the "wheel"; it trains your brain for quick reactions and keeps your attention and your brain trained all the time. Self driving cars makes you lazy and unhealthy as an vegetable. Of course people will say there are other methods to keep your brain active; like computer games. But yeah being on the road and in control of something (not your wife, ha ha) gives another sensation. I still like the older cars where you had to shift and use a clutch as well had no navigation; that made driving more interesting when you got lost.

    Not all renewed things make you happy! Let's start first in this country to get decent public transportation, I see that more as an priority than self driving cars.

    I liked the old VW's that had a stick shift and you didn't need to use the clutch except for starting and stopping. When I drove an 18 wheeler, I hardly ever used the clutch, and only for stopping and starting. The most difficult vehicle I've ever driven was a Oshkosh snow blower, it had a CAT diesel engine and a 3 range transmission of low, direct and overdrive, and if you missed a gear in that thing, double clutching wouldn't help you, you had to stop completely and start all over.

    flickr.com/photos/66673048@N06/82033566...

    This country really doesn't need self driving cars, it has too many cars on the road now, it has a critical shortage of public transportation.

  • jaredsxtn
    2019-01-01 07:49:43 PM
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    Car crashes are one of the leading causes of death in this country. Why in the world wouldn't we want to embrace technology that has the potential to drastically reduce unintended deaths?

    I'm all for robust oversight and regulation concerning automated transportation, but the anti-automation crowd seems hell bent on keeping the status quo where over one million people die each year in deaths that are entirely preventable.

    People who want to stay stuck in the 20th Century remind me of what the people who fought valiantly to keep the horse and buggy the predominant mode of transportation must have been like.

  • Dutch
    2019-01-02 08:47:38 AM
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:

    Car crashes are one of the leading causes of death in this country. Why in the world wouldn't we want to embrace technology that has the potential to drastically reduce unintended deaths?

    I'm all for robust oversight and regulation concerning automated transportation, but the anti-automation crowd seems hell bent on keeping the status quo where over one million people die each year in deaths that are entirely preventable.

    People who want to stay stuck in the 20th Century remind me of what the people who fought valiantly to keep the horse and buggy the predominant mode of transportation must have been like.

    Typical. Let's start with how many are killed by guns, drugs, booze, our wars and stupidity. How about a mandatory driver test every 5 years (an difficult comprehensive test as they do in Europe) as well get the drunks of the road as well the dumb country asses who never drove in a city and only on the tractor and then as snowbirds think they can drive in Miami etc. Again Jared it is the stupid culture in this country which causes all these accidents; as well no decent infrastructure to prevent accidents by not having up to date public transportation; how about banning cellphones in the car as well using the nav. screens while driving. That is the case in Europe only "hands free" driving is allowed; also why are there here so many "invalid" parking places here; I guess due to our great wars; yes you can scrap these and have them take a taxi (or a self driving car?) ; every time I see someone parked at the "invalid" parking they "walk " to the store etc. This is and stays an stupid country in many ways. Here are more people are killed by "self inflicted wounds" then any other place in the world; check the statistics.
  • jaredsxtn
    2019-01-02 06:05:55 PM
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    Dutch Wrote: Typical. Let's start with how many are killed by guns, drugs, booze, our wars and stupidity.

    100 Americans die each day because of a gun. The vast majority of them being suicides.

    3,287 Americans die each day in a car crash. That equals 1.25 million deaths in a year. And then add in the upwards of 50 million people injured each year in car accidents and you can see how automobile deaths dwarf all Americans killed or maimed by "guns, drugs, booze, our wars and stupidity."

    I think we can walk and chew gum at the same time as a country. We can both invest in new technologies to make transportation safer, faster, and more reliable AND reboot our international relations with foreign governments, reign in the military industrial complex, expand social services to tackle the opioid and alcoholism crises, and pass comprehensive gun control legislation.

    What's so controversial about safe, fast, and reliable transportation that takes human error out of the equation? 1.25 million Americans a year would have a second chance at life instead of being killed by a distracted or drunk driver. 50 million Americans a year wouldn't have to spend days, months, or years in painful rehab because of a distracted or drunk driver.

    Technology is advancing whether we are ready for it or not. Autonomous transportation is going to continue to advance whether we are ready for it or not. We can either embrace and adapt or dig our heads in the sand in the same way the horse and buggy advocates did over a century ago.

  • Dutch
    2019-01-03 09:06:56 AM
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: Typical. Let's start with how many are killed by guns, drugs, booze, our wars and stupidity.

    100 Americans die each day because of a gun. The vast majority of them being suicides.

    3,287 Americans die each day in a car crash. That equals 1.25 million deaths in a year. And then add in the upwards of 50 million people injured each year in car accidents and you can see how automobile deaths dwarf all Americans killed or maimed by "guns, drugs, booze, our wars and stupidity."

    I think we can walk and chew gum at the same time as a country. We can both invest in new technologies to make transportation safer, faster, and more reliable AND reboot our international relations with foreign governments, reign in the military industrial complex, expand social services to tackle the opioid and alcoholism crises, and pass comprehensive gun control legislation.

    What's so controversial about safe, fast, and reliable transportation that takes human error out of the equation? 1.25 million Americans a year would have a second chance at life instead of being killed by a distracted or drunk driver. 50 million Americans a year wouldn't have to spend days, months, or years in painful rehab because of a distracted or drunk driver.

    Technology is advancing whether we are ready for it or not. Autonomous transportation is going to continue to advance whether we are ready for it or not. We can either embrace and adapt or dig our heads in the sand in the same way the horse and buggy advocates did over a century ago.

    Jared, I guess you did not read what I wrote i.e. There is no good public transportation here, nor any good "driver testing/training". It only works by, if you relieve the "amount" of traffic on the roads because of good public transportation; then you get less accidents. The same applies to good roads without potholes or too few lanes etc. Also as I mentioned the distraction by using "cellphones" as well the nav. info screen while driving; the "laws" here are ridiculous about that. If "self driving cars" hit the road, they will surely become "stuck in the same traffic jambs or cause them. etc. It is simply the backlog on infrastructure what is causing it; populations grow but the roads are not adapted to it in time. In the Netherlands I always went to work on public transportation because it worked and dropped me right at the place I worked. Also there it is mandatory that slow traffic stick to the right lane. So blame your sweet government. If you would replace every present car on the road with an "self driving car" you would likely at arrive 2 days later at your work because it will end up in an unresolvable traffic jamb; (hopefully without accidents.?)

  • that guy in AZ
    2019-01-03 10:09:33 AM
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    Jared:

    Your numbers are accurate, but not in the context you put them in.

    1.25 million people ARE killed each year (an average of 3500 per day) , and 50 million are injured, but those are WORLDWIDE numbers:

    http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/global/index.html

    The vast majority of the world's most dangerous countries for car crashes are all in Africa, but oddly enough, they also happen to be the countries that have the LOWEST deaths from cancer:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/02/a-map-of-the-worlds-most-dangerous-countries-for-drivers/283886/

    In 2017, there were 37,133 deaths due to car crashes in America, an average of 102 per day:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year

    We peaked at 54,589 in 1972, but the number of deaths has been a steady decline since that time due to stricter enforcement of seat belt laws and much safer vehicles. To give you an idea how far auto technology has come in our lifetime, it's informative to watch the 2009 Insurance Institute of Highway Safety video that crashed a big, heavy 1959 Chevrolet Bel Air into a 2009 Chevy Malibu:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_r5UJrxcck

    However, we now have ANOTHER threat that is even worse. In 2016, more people died from opioid-related overdoses than car crashes. Unlike car crashes, deaths from drug overdoses have been on a steady INCREASE since 1990, when prescription drugs started to become problematic.

    https://www.healthline.com/health-news/deaths-from-opioid-overdoses-higher-than-car-accident-fatalities#1

    Both of the categories shown above pale when compared to death by firearms. In 2016, there were 27,394 homicides involving firearms, and 44,955 suicides, for a grand total of 72, 349.Like opioids, gun deaths have been on the rise for roughly the last 10 years. For obvious reason, both homicides and suicides are lower in states that have strict gun laws, and higher in states that have looser laws.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gun-death-statistics-cdc-study-says-gun-deaths-are-on-the-rise-after-years-of-decline/

    Here's the gun death rate chart by state:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_United_States_by_state

    Weather also plays a big factor in these statistics as well. The state that has the highest suicide rate (Alaska) also gets the lowest percentage (41%) of available sunlight. Hawaii is very low on the death scale due to a lot of sunshine (71%) and strict gun laws, and Arizona has a lot lower rate than Alaska, despite having very loose gun laws, due to the fact that it gets the most sunlight (85%)

    https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/US/average-annual-state-sunshine.php

  • Chet Ruminski
    2019-01-03 10:17:32 AM
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    jaredsxtn said:

    "Why in the world wouldn't we want to embrace technology that has the potential to drastically reduce unintended deaths?"

    And

    "1.2 million people die each year from auto injuries"

    And Anti Collision computer programs in cars could reduce auto deaths to less than gun deaths. Why so much emphasis on saving thousands when saving millions is almost silent. Trial lawyers???

  • jaredsxtn
    2019-01-03 10:28:14 AM
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    that guy in AZ Wrote: Jared:

    Your numbers are accurate, but not in the context you put them in.

    That's embarrassing. I pride myself on doing solid research and I must have been way too trigger happy to "prove my point." Thanks for the correction.
  • jaredsxtn
    2019-01-03 10:37:56 AM
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: And Anti Collision computer programs in cars could reduce auto deaths to less than gun deaths. Why so much emphasis on saving thousands when saving millions is almost silent. Trial lawyers???
    Huh?
  • Chet Ruminski
    2019-01-03 10:56:19 AM
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Chet Ruminski Wrote: And Anti Collision computer programs in cars could reduce auto deaths to less than gun deaths. Why so much emphasis on saving thousands when saving millions is almost silent. Trial lawyers???
    Huh?
    What don't you understand? Why there is no uproar over millions of people dying from auto related deaths? If the same effort for gun control was applied to auto deaths, auto deaths would disappear.
  • jaredsxtn
    2019-01-03 10:58:35 AM
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: What don't you understand? Why there is no uproar over millions of people dying from auto related deaths? If the same effort for gun control was applied to auto deaths, auto deaths would disappear.

    First - my numbers were wrong. I (unintentionally) cited a worldwide study because of sloppy research. US numbers are still astronomically high, but not as high as I initially quoted.

    Second - we agree. That was my whole point.

  • Chet Ruminski
    2019-01-03 11:37:52 AM
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Chet Ruminski Wrote: What don't you understand? Why there is no uproar over millions of people dying from auto related deaths? If the same effort for gun control was applied to auto deaths, auto deaths would disappear.

    First - my numbers were wrong. I (unintentionally) cited a worldwide study because of sloppy research. US numbers are still astronomically high, but not as high as I initially quoted.

    Second - we agree. That was my whole point.

    I thought that was a high number but only checked the multiplication.
  • Chet Ruminski
    2019-01-03 01:44:05 PM
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    Dockadams Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote:

    Self driving cars aren't an solution. It is an good exercise to be behind the "wheel"; it trains your brain for quick reactions and keeps your attention and your brain trained all the time. Self driving cars makes you lazy and unhealthy as an vegetable. Of course people will say there are other methods to keep your brain active; like computer games. But yeah being on the road and in control of something (not your wife, ha ha) gives another sensation. I still like the older cars where you had to shift and use a clutch as well had no navigation; that made driving more interesting when you got lost.

    Not all renewed things make you happy! Let's start first in this country to get decent public transportation, I see that more as an priority than self driving cars.

    I liked the old VW's that had a stick shift and you didn't need to use the clutch except for starting and stopping. When I drove an 18 wheeler, I hardly ever used the clutch, and only for stopping and starting. The most difficult vehicle I've ever driven was a Oshkosh snow blower, it had a CAT diesel engine and a 3 range transmission of low, direct and overdrive, and if you missed a gear in that thing, double clutching wouldn't help you, you had to stop completely and start all over.

    flickr.com/photos/66673048@N06/82033566...

    This country really doesn't need self driving cars, it has too many cars on the road now, it has a critical shortage of public transportation.

    "When I drove an 18 wheeler, I hardly ever used the clutch, and only for stopping and starting."

    I got cars to the shop with no clutch linkage or bad clutch master cylinders driving through traffic with multiple stop and goes. The starter is geared so low that it can move a car. Just give the vehicle about 1/4 gas pedal to avoid lurching and jerking , put in first gear then start it. Shifting is easy. Just ease off the gas after adequate rpm with lite pressure on the shifter. Down shifting is the reverse. Pull out of gear and then lite pressure on the shifter to lower gear while lightly increasing RPM.

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