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What Americans Are Thinking About Trump Now

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  • Liberal Democrat
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    Kenosha, WI
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    "Poll: 62 percent say Trump isn't telling the truth in Russia probe"

    "just 10 percent of respondents say that the president has gotten the message for a change in direction from the midterms"

    nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/pol...

    Americans must have laid down their crack pipes and come to the realization that trump isn't the goody two shoes they once thought he was, geez, I thought they were going to wait til 2020 before they came out of the cloud!

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Dockadams Wrote:

    "Poll: 62 percent say Trump isn't telling the truth in Russia probe"

    "just 10 percent of respondents say that the president has gotten the message for a change in direction from the midterms"

    nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/pol...

    Americans must have laid down their crack pipes and come to the realization that trump isn't the goody two shoes they once thought he was, geez, I thought they were going to wait til 2020 before they came out of the cloud!

    It means that 38% (which is his base) still stick with him to the bitter end. Which also may mean that that part of the country will likely start an revolt if he's removed. He is even promoting an revolt as any "dictator" would do.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    That 38 percent (his base plus or minus a few points) represents a sort of critical mass for Trump that allows him to spew his lies ad infinitum without the required enormous public pushback. Many supporters privately do not like the guy, but they stick with him because of what he promises to do for their well being -- the coal miners, the evangelicals, the military, the white supremacists, to name just a few --- as well as pandering to their prejudices.

    Trump's base is an unholy coalition of self interested groups who do not put country first. I have met so many of them knocking on doors. You could call it, a "me first movement", and Trump knows how to add fuel to the fires promoting fear, anger and hate amongst his 6,000 lies.

    It's not a new tactic. Unfortunately, as Dutch can relate to you about history, it worked before. Trump is drawing from an 80 year old playbook appealing to one's darker emotions rather than their intellect.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Schmidt Wrote:

    That 38 percent (his base plus or minus a few points) represents a sort of critical mass for Trump that allows him to spew his lies ad infinitum without the required enormous public pushback. Many supporters privately do not like the guy, but they stick with him because of what he promises to do for their well being -- the coal miners, the evangelicals, the military, the white supremacists, to name just a few --- as well as pandering to their prejudices.

    Trump's base is an unholy coalition of self interested groups who do not put country first. I have met so many of them knocking on doors. You could call it, a "me first movement", and Trump knows how to add fuel to the fires promoting fear, anger and hate amongst his 6,000 lies.

    It's not a new tactic. Unfortunately, as Dutch can relate to you about history, it worked before. Trump is drawing from an 80 year old playbook appealing to one's darker emotions rather than their intellect.

    Yes Schmidt, you say it as it actually is. Then on top of that if you elect people from the dumb part of the country or "corrupt" uneducated leaders, then you get an Hitler effect. All of this happens when you indoctrinate people as Hitler and Trump and the "churches" do/did. An typical creepy feeling I get, when I see the people at the border being "marked" on their arm with an number; that indeed reminds me of Hitler where all the prisoners and Jews were tatoo-ed on the arm. Sickening indeed. Sorry , like Schmidt says, it looks like those times are back.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Chet prompted me to go back and reread much of the history of the rise of Hitler to power. I looked at it from a different perspective...how he built a critical mass of supporters and then used threats and intimidation as well as propaganda to make his power secure. Ultimately he was an opportunist taking advantage of massive discontent, telling people what they wanted to hear...casting blame.

    Yet the Trump situation is not the same or as dire as that era where a whole country was in discontent following the demands for payment of war reparations from the Great War. It humiliated the German people, and the situation gave rise to an opportunist to take command.

    In the USA we have checks and balances that will see Trump ultimately removed from office. However, that's not an excuse for his election in the first place. That process exposed several weaknesses in our electoral system that someone so unqualified could be elected in the first place. Not arguing that point.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    "That process exposed several weaknesses in our electoral system that someone so unqualified could be elected in the first place."

    The tax code let Trump buy the presidency the same way it lets just a few people have immense power through money. Millions times more power than "one person one vote". Like the Koch brothers who do not put country first. Buying self interest. At one time the highest part of the tax code was 98% and the country functioned fine compared to now.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote:

    "That process exposed several weaknesses in our electoral system that someone so unqualified could be elected in the first place."

    The tax code let Trump buy the presidency the same way it lets just a few people have immense power through money. Millions times more power than "one person one vote". Like the Koch brothers who do not put country first. Buying self interest. At one time the highest part of the tax code was 98% and the country functioned fine compared to now.

    Yes Chet; what are the "rich" doing with billions of dollars, if they can't spent it even in their own lifetime; I guess 50 million should be an "ceiling"; everything above that should go to the tax man, or flow back into the society. Why have "gold" plated castles like Trump has; it does not show that he's more happy because of it; all that "glitter" would give me the chills.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Dutch, You got the perfect number.

    "I guess 50 million should be an "ceiling"; everything above that should go to the tax man, or flow back into the society."

    Country first. "Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country"

    A country is made of people, not egos.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Schmidt said:

    "how he built a critical mass of supporters and then used threats and intimidation as well as propaganda to make his power secure. Ultimately he was an opportunist taking advantage of massive discontent, telling people what they wanted to hear...casting blame"

    Schmidt, I have known many many people exactly like that and heard and read about 100's more. Dysfunctional selfish self centered scammers opportinists. Almost all kicked into anonymity. But some reach world changing status. Something let them get past the stench of their evil intentions. What do you think it is that lets evil little men command millions to do their bidding. Do you think they are just diligent hard working self starters rewarded for their efforts? Do you think any body can do it? What gives them the power to recruit millions of supporters? Hard work? Every one of those despots used the evil bonus of the strange compelling attraction as is noted in all biographies of people that command millions. Charisma.

    Many of history’s most effective leaders are labeled charismatic. Yet, there is a great deal of controversy about whether charisma is made or born, and if charismatic leaders are actually effective. A while back, I was interviewed as part of a celebration of the life of Martin Luther King, Jr. Many of the most frequently asked questions about charismatic leadershipwere part of that interview.

    google.com/amp/s/psychologytoday.com/us...

  • Independent
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    Schmidt Wrote:

    Chet prompted me to go back and reread much of the history of the rise of Hitler to power. I looked at it from a different perspective...how he built a critical mass of supporters and then used threats and intimidation as well as propaganda to make his power secure. Ultimately he was an opportunist taking advantage of massive discontent, telling people what they wanted to hear...casting blame.

    Yet the Trump situation is not the same or as dire as that era where a whole country was in discontent following the demands for payment of war reparations from the Great War. It humiliated the German people, and the situation gave rise to an opportunist to take command.

    In the USA we have checks and balances that will see Trump ultimately removed from office. However, that's not an excuse for his election in the first place. That process exposed several weaknesses in our electoral system that someone so unqualified could be elected in the first place. Not arguing that point.

    I suggest Robert Paxton’s “Anatomy of Fascism”. A very interesting read. He discusses how fascism is a specific RW ideology that arose as did the Left in opposition to capitalism during the interwar period. Conservatives ended up making common cause with fascists due to fear of the Left and socialists/communists. The conservatives thought they would be able to control the fascists but such was not the case.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    lonely Bird -- Paxton is indeed an authority on fascism. I haven't read his book, but his writings are referenced by others. David Neiwert in his 2009 book, The Eliminationists, gave a perspective on fascism during the Bush administration. He references and summarizes Paxton's work in Chapter 6. On Amazon now there are several later books dealing with fascism with particular references to the Trump administration. I just don't feel like reading them...it's kind of like rehashing old news.

    For a more succinct list, I have found Dr. Lawrence Britt's "14 character check list" from an article, Fascism Anyone? to be helpful, although one obviously needs to dig deeper. Another important point is that whatever form of fascism one wants to identify with, it is hardly an "either or" choice. There are degrees of fascism, and not until a large majority of Americans get on board and endorse the several facets of fascism, I think we are a long way off, thanks to the Democrats.

    Anyway, Britt's list below is interesting if one thinks of Donald Trump and his administration in reading each characteristic.

    So I leave it to the members. How many apply to Trumpism and his related ideologies? My count is high up there.

    The 14 Characteristics of Fascism, by Lawrence Britt, Spring 2003

    Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt recently wrote an article about fascism ("Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20). Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had 14 elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The excerpt is in accordance with the magazine's policy.

    The 14 characteristics are:

    Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
    Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

    Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
    Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

    Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
    The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

    Supremacy of the Military
    Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

    Rampant Sexism
    The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

    Controlled Mass Media
    Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

    Obsession with National Security
    Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

    Religion and Government are Intertwined
    Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

    Corporate Power is Protected
    The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

    Labor Power is Suppressed
    Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .

    Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
    Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

    Obsession with Crime and Punishment
    Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

    Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
    Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

    Fraudulent Elections
    Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Wow! yes you've got it all!! Is n't time all the GOP members/thinkers/cronies read this!!!
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    I've put that list on this website several years ago and at a different time in our politics. There was a lot of talk of fascism during the George W. Bush administration, but if one goes further back, the Republican Party has had trending fascism traits throughout its history. It has moved even further in that direction with the John Birch Society/Tea Party/Freedom Caucus members of Congress led by Jim Jordan and Mark Meadows. Although the Freedom Caucus has only 34 members, they yield considerably more power in the House than their numbers would suggest. That's because they are ruthless in their ideological pursuit of their fascist trending goals.

    When I browse where these House members stand on the issues, their views seem to be closely aligned with many of the 14 characteristics of fascism. They certainly would never ever claim to be fascists, but going down the check list, one would have to put a tick mark besides most of the 14 characteristics as applying to their individual worldviews.

    Trump, of course, thinks only of himself and how he can profit from the presidency, and hence his worldviews (or perhaps lack of worldviews) are not always aligned with those Freedom Caucus members who are more passionately and ideologically driven.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Schmidt Wrote:

    I've put that list on this website several years ago and at a different time in our politics. There was a lot of talk of fascism during the George W. Bush administration, but if one goes further back, the Republican Party has had trending fascism traits throughout its history. It has moved even further in that direction with the John Birch Society/Tea Party/Freedom Caucus members of Congress led by Jim Jordan and Mark Meadows. Although the Freedom Caucus has only 34 members, they yield considerably more power in the House than their numbers would suggest. That's because they are ruthless in their ideological pursuit of their fascist trending goals.

    When I browse where these House members stand on the issues, their views seem to be closely aligned with many of the 14 characteristics of fascism. They certainly would never ever claim to be fascists, but going down the check list, one would have to put a tick mark besides most of the 14 characteristics as applying to their individual worldviews.

    Trump, of course, thinks only of himself and how he can profit from the presidency, and hence his worldviews (or perhaps lack of worldviews) are not always aligned with those Freedom Caucus members who are more passionately and ideologically driven.

    Yes Schmidt, we think alike about that . The worst part of it is, that these 34 total idiots are able to ruin this country from the inside out.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Kenosha, WI
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    50% of Americans blame Trump for the government shutdown. As it drags on, maybe more will voice their disapproval of his handling of it.