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Old King Coal

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  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Tucson, AZ
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    On this day in 1952, a thick fog blanketed London, and did not dissipate until December 9. A period of cold weather, combined with an anticyclone and windless conditions, collected airborne pollutants—mostly arising from the use of coal—to form a thick layer of smog over the city. It lasted from Friday, 5 December to Tuesday, 9 December 1952 and then dispersed quickly when the weather changed. At least 4000 people died, and another 100,000 became sick.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog_of_London

    In spite of the world's efforts to reduce pollution from coal, global carbon emissions reached a record high in 2018.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/energy-environment/2018/12/05/we-are-trouble-global-carbon-emissions-reached-new-record-high/?utm_term=.cc6f42927d5f

    In spite of Trump's promise "to bring back all those coal jobs" U.S. coal consumption has declined to its lowest level since 1979:

    https://www.apnews.com/2b47b6773d6d4e6aae638610180c1f98

    Coal jobs HAVE gone up under Trump, but only a 1001 more in the entire country. Since power companies have found that natural gas is cheaper and more efficient, the bump is only temporary, and will spiral down in the near future.

    https://www.apnews.com/2b47b6773d6d4e6aae638610180c1f98

    Between 2000 and 2017, the number of jobs in the solar industry increased from 93,000 jobs to over 250,000.

    https://www.thesolarfoundation.org/national/

    The REALLY SMART coal companies are switching to solar power:

    https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/06/us/coal-museum-goes-solar-trnd/index.html

    If you've read John Grishams' "Gray Mountain", you'll recognize that we would be very wise to limit coal production as much as possible. The Martin County coal slurry spill of 2000 released 306,000,000 gallons of contaminated water into two tributaries of the Tug Fork river:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_County_coal_slurry_spill

    If you are wondering exactly WHY Trump decided to withdraw from the Paris agreement, it shouldn't surprise you to know that the administrative drafts of the executive order for withdrawing from the Paris climate accord were actually written by Bob Murray, chief executive of Ohio-based Murray energy. All Trump had to do was sign them.

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/coal-executive-drafted-orders-for-trump-to-withdraw-from-paris-climate-accord-20180608-p4zk7j.html

    Trump should be happy, though. He is going to get a lump of coal for Christmas, just as soon as Robert Mueller releases the results of his investigation.

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Arizona -- Thanks for sharing all the links. Indeed, “We are in trouble. We are in deep trouble with climate change,” United Nations Secretary General António Guterres said this week at the opening of the 24th annual U.N. climate conference. I cannot underscore enough how serious the problem is. Even though USA consumption of coal is down, our exports of coal are up. And Trump is setting a bad example for the rest of the world by withdrawing from the Paris Accord.

    Our children and our children's children will look back at this period and say, "what the hell were they thinking!" Trump will be condemned by historians for his negative stance on climate change as will most Republicans.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    That is what you get if you have an "corrupt" election system and don't "PROPERLY" VET an President or others in the Government.There should be an official "vetting" manual. This manual should clearly define what "knowledge and education" (also world experience), such person should have Also there should be an official "manual" for any high function what their task is and the "limits" of their "power" in exact words ; not just "legal" jumble. The guys who wrote the Constitution never were aware of that an "type" like Trump ever could become an President. On top of that did not realize that the "zillion" lawyers here, screwed up the Constitution such way that they could continue to make fortunes to interpret it such way that they will have jobs forever and make fortunes doing so. This whole country will go down the drain because of the lack of proper black and white laws as well the "huge" corruption in everything they touch. Thus start with limiting the powers of a President; determine also what he can spent on himself; Trumps "outings" have cost the taxpayers in about two years already $500 million. Why is there no solid "budget" for the WH? Why have not an "uniform" election system without "money" and "lobbyists" ?

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Why can't we stay on topic? The topic is King Coal and it's impact on climate change. Not our corrupt election system. We have other threads for that.

    Sorry that I keep calling people out, but I was away for two months and in trying to catch up, it seemed there was no regard for staying on topic. In reading topic titles the underlying post discussions seemed to wander all over the place from Chet's obsession with derivatives and "lower classes" to Dutch's "corrupt election system". Let's have some discipline.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Schmidt Wrote:

    Why can't we stay on topic? The topic is King Coal and it's impact on climate change. Not our corrupt election system. We have other threads for that.

    Sorry that I keep calling people out, but I was away for two months and in trying to catch up, it seemed there was no regard for staying on topic. In reading topic titles the underlying post discussions seemed to wander all over the place from Chet's obsession with derivatives and "lower classes" to Dutch's "corrupt election system". Let's have some discipline.

    Sorry, ever heard of "cause and effect" The "coal" thing is purely an "direct" effect of having no proper laws to "vet" an President and his "cronies' who lack the "education' to know and accept that " coal and its "effects" are detrimental to the health of the population and mankind. Please look at the BIG picture and tie the pieces together. Piecemeal subjects are always an piece of the big puzzle, which should not be viewed on its own merits alone.

    Also this is an discussion site; not the "army" (discipline?) If we would have an President who would have "brains" and "professionals" around him, then we would not have a discussion about "coal" now.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Schmidt Wrote:

    Why can't we stay on topic? The topic is King Coal and it's impact on climate change. Not our corrupt election system. We have other threads for that.

    Sorry that I keep calling people out, but I was away for two months and in trying to catch up, it seemed there was no regard for staying on topic. In reading topic titles the underlying post discussions seemed to wander all over the place from Chet's obsession with derivatives and "lower classes" to Dutch's "corrupt election system". Let's have some discipline.

    THANK YOU!
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Dutch Wrote: Sorry, ever heard of "cause and effect" The "coal" thing is purely an "direct" effect of having no proper laws to "vet" an President and his "cronies' who lack the "education' to know and accept that " coal and its "effects" are detrimental to the health of the population and mankind. Please look at the BIG picture and tie the pieces together. Piecemeal subjects are always an piece of the big puzzle, which should not be viewed on its own merits alone.

    Global climate change is a "direct effect" of not vetting our Presidential candidates? Do you actually believe that?

    I'm for drastic action to begin adapting to the seemingly runaway train that is global climate change, but blaming it all on how we elect our President just doesn't make any logical sense to me. International politics and cooperation is a wee bit more complicated than simply blaming everything on the United States and how stupid everyone here is.

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Kenosha, WI
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    The power plant in my area has been shut down for several months now, and not because the operators want cleaner air. Instead, our plant was shut down as a cost saving measure, who knew? natural gas is cheaper to burn than coal. Wisconsin obtains it's coal from the Powder River Basin in not so nearby Montana and is shipped here in rail coal cars as pictured in this article. jsonline.com/story/money/business/energ...

    I can almost see why natural gas is cheaper than coal now, when the cost to transport coal from the west is considered.

    One thing that's bothersome is that the Oak Creek power plant remains in operation, and WE energies has been stockpiling coal and coal ash in fields they have been buying up at near alarming rates, and the concern now is that the coal ash is going to pollute the ground water and air quality in and around the area.

    energynews.us/2017/12/10/midwest/as-one...

    "We Energies has purchased 26 homes around Oak Creek since 2009 to create “buffer property around the plant,” according to Jahns. Pringle and other locals see the home purchases as evidence that We Energies is worried about the impact on residents."

    There's hardly anything clean about coal.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Dockadams Wrote:

    The power plant in my area has been shut down for several months now, and not because the operators want cleaner air. Instead, our plant was shut down as a cost saving measure, who knew? natural gas is cheaper to burn than coal. Wisconsin obtains it's coal from the Powder River Basin in not so nearby Montana and is shipped here in rail coal cars as pictured in this article. jsonline.com/story/money/business/energ...

    I can almost see why natural gas is cheaper than coal now, when the cost to transport coal from the west is considered.

    One thing that's bothersome is that the Oak Creek power plant remains in operation, and WE energies has been stockpiling coal and coal ash in fields they have been buying up at near alarming rates, and the concern now is that the coal ash is going to pollute the ground water and air quality in and around the area.

    energynews.us/2017/12/10/midwest/as-one...

    "We Energies has purchased 26 homes around Oak Creek since 2009 to create “buffer property around the plant,” according to Jahns. Pringle and other locals see the home purchases as evidence that We Energies is worried about the impact on residents."

    There's hardly anything clean about coal.

    It's all about money and control. In 1972 gas well drilling was all over Belmont County Ohio. Multiple wells were drilled around where I lived and when a well came in it sounded like a 747 taking off. All those wells were capped and too my knowledge were never used. The area coal mines were bought by Continental Oil.

    Now:

    BELMONT- Despite a drop in working U.S. oil and natural gas rigs from 1,803 to just 489 over the last two years, Belmont County boasts the 10 most productive wells in the entire state of Ohio.

    There is so much natural gas that prices drop.

    Why Natural Gas Prices Just Tanked | OilPrice.com

    OilPrice.com


    Feb 1, 2018 · Natural gas prices crashed again on Thursday afternoon as a result of warmer weather forecasts and a

    Why are Natural Gas Prices dropping when it is the cleanest burning fuel used to produce power.

    Small Business Plans

    Natural gas demand is high, but prices struggle

    HoustonChronicle.com


    why is clean burning natural gas price dropping from www.houstonchronicle.com

    Oct 7, 2018 · Rarely has the natural gas business offered so much promise with so little reward.

    Russia collusion is nothing compared to the energy business in the USA.

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Dockadams -- I would expect that the coal is being stockpiled because the WE Energies has bought the coal through long term contracts. Just because they shut down the power plants in the low seasons (spring and fall) doesn't mean that the coal mining operations in Wyoming also stop. That coal is continuously delivered as per the contract and hopefully used up during the high seasons of power consumption -- or maybe they will have to wait until after their existing contract commitments run out before coal stocks can start going down.

    See EIA's website: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.php?page=coal_prices

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: Sorry, ever heard of "cause and effect" The "coal" thing is purely an "direct" effect of having no proper laws to "vet" an President and his "cronies' who lack the "education' to know and accept that " coal and its "effects" are detrimental to the health of the population and mankind. Please look at the BIG picture and tie the pieces together. Piecemeal subjects are always an piece of the big puzzle, which should not be viewed on its own merits alone.

    Global climate change is a "direct effect" of not vetting our Presidential candidates? Do you actually believe that?

    I'm for drastic action to begin adapting to the seemingly runaway train that is global climate change, but blaming it all on how we elect our President just doesn't make any logical sense to me. International politics and cooperation is a wee bit more complicated than simply blaming everything on the United States and how stupid everyone here is.

    Jared, you are an typical schooled American who does not start at "A" but start at "Z" . It surely depends on who is in power if we care about "coal" or not. Use your brains.