Forum Thread

Remembering 9/11

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    Chet Ruminski Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: Chet; I think the subject was 9/11 ; You wrote it like there was an "bomb" on board. So next time write: "also there was an bombing in 1993 in these towers, which I like to mention"
    Sorry Dutch, The truck bomb in 1993 was a big deal and I thought you had working knowledge about the exoskeleton and that the floors were not bolted but hung from "clips".
    Many structural engineers believe that the weak points—the limiting factors on design allowables—were the angle clips that held the floor joists between the columns on the perimeter wall and the core structure (see Figure 5
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    Chet who cares; I think it was attached with "rubber bands" and "horse glue". It still fell down because of design.
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    Dutch Wrote: Chet who cares; I think it was attached with "rubber bands" and "horse glue". It still fell down because of design.
    True but not because of your false claims. It is important to be factual and not to make up facts. It calls everything into question.
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    I was at home. I have worked from home since 1996.

    There was a moment when this occurred when we could have bent the world's good will to ourselves. We failed. We failed because George W. Bush and the neocons saw this as an opportunity to try and remake the Middle East in our image. Democracy and free markets by the barrel of a gun. Of course it is unsurprising that the solution was framed in such a manner. The government of the United Sates, excuse me, Disjointed States, has long viewed the rest of the world through a prism that no more provides a reliable picture of the currents of social interactions in the rest of the world than looking through a keyhole does.

    The end of the long 19th century resulted in a couple of things that have colored the worldview of the U.S. for decades. The first was the collapse after a series of recessions/depressions culminating in the populist movement followed by the Great Depression. Seeing the rise of fascism in cooperation with conservatives as a response to the left's response to the failures of capitalism some on the right here embraced fascism while others co-opted the left by signing on, at least on the surface, to FDR's plans and actions. The right here did not want fascism as a group but they really didn't want communism/socialism so FDR was able to get much of what he wanted done. The next event was WW2. This cemented our position at the top of the heap because the rest fo the world was mangled. The war barely touched this country. FDR knew that the people wouldn't support an extended ground war in Europe so soon after WW1 so he counted upon the Soviets to do the bleeding. And bleed they did. But again ended up atop the heap only to discover that the USSR was actually not a friend. That discovery then colored everything afterward. Nationalist movements in the developing world were viewed through the prism of US vs USSR even when they weren't. The meddling that we engaged in served to cast our intentions in poor light.

    So what happened? Capitalism happened. Other countries were rebuilt only to become economic competitors. The inherent instability of free market capitalism along with the decoupling of the economy from socio-political relations resulted in a cult of economic theology which was handed an apparent vindication with the collapse of the USSR. Yet the so-called victory of democracy over communism (wasn't what really happened by why tilt at myths) was a chimera. Yes, yes, the USSR collapsed. But state coordinated and state controlled economies have grown enormously while inequality, instability and tribal responses to just about everything have shown the U.S. to be an emperor with no clothes. We have willingly abdicated our position when we had opportunities to move forward. Those opportunities have disappeared. 9/11 was one of them.

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    There is a common denominator to the failure of any type of social order. Greed.
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    lonely bird Wrote:

    I was at home. I have worked from home since 1996.

    There was a moment when this occurred when we could have bent the world's good will to ourselves. We failed. We failed because George W. Bush and the neocons saw this as an opportunity to try and remake the Middle East in our image. Democracy and free markets by the barrel of a gun. Of course it is unsurprising that the solution was framed in such a manner. The government of the United Sates, excuse me, Disjointed States, has long viewed the rest of the world through a prism that no more provides a reliable picture of the currents of social interactions in the rest of the world than looking through a keyhole does.

    The end of the long 19th century resulted in a couple of things that have colored the worldview of the U.S. for decades. The first was the collapse after a series of recessions/depressions culminating in the populist movement followed by the Great Depression. Seeing the rise of fascism in cooperation with conservatives as a response to the left's response to the failures of capitalism some on the right here embraced fascism while others co-opted the left by signing on, at least on the surface, to FDR's plans and actions. The right here did not want fascism as a group but they really didn't want communism/socialism so FDR was able to get much of what he wanted done. The next event was WW2. This cemented our position at the top of the heap because the rest fo the world was mangled. The war barely touched this country. FDR knew that the people wouldn't support an extended ground war in Europe so soon after WW1 so he counted upon the Soviets to do the bleeding. And bleed they did. But again ended up atop the heap only to discover that the USSR was actually not a friend. That discovery then colored everything afterward. Nationalist movements in the developing world were viewed through the prism of US vs USSR even when they weren't. The meddling that we engaged in served to cast our intentions in poor light.

    So what happened? Capitalism happened. Other countries were rebuilt only to become economic competitors. The inherent instability of free market capitalism along with the decoupling of the economy from socio-political relations resulted in a cult of economic theology which was handed an apparent vindication with the collapse of the USSR. Yet the so-called victory of democracy over communism (wasn't what really happened by why tilt at myths) was a chimera. Yes, yes, the USSR collapsed. But state coordinated and state controlled economies have grown enormously while inequality, instability and tribal responses to just about everything have shown the U.S. to be an emperor with no clothes. We have willingly abdicated our position when we had opportunities to move forward. Those opportunities have disappeared. 9/11 was one of them.

    So true. How can someone possibly force another to accept democracy who doesn't want any part of it? It's like trying to force an infant to eat peas, the kid just spits them out because the kid doesn't want them. Adding to that, politicians want to keep the gears of war machines well oiled. I just wonder how many politicians and which ones benefitted from having an interest in defense companies or stocks?
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    The next different President should make all Federal employees and politicians, immediately divest from all companies that supply goods, equipment, and services related to our military.

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    Dutch Wrote:

    Sure today there was the "hoepla" about 9/11; speeches galore. At least someone said that since 9/11 we spent "one and and an half" trillion dollars on our wars. Also there is more to come because nothing has been solved, take Iran, Yemen, Syria, N.Korea as well other places the US is poking their noses in , like Somalia and Trump even wants to invade Venezuela.

    No the world has not been an peaceful place since; neither it will be in the future considering the present mentality and racists attitude in our government.

    I too have memories of that day. I heard a big building in New York was on CBC radio. I then went to the CBC TV to watch the second tower fall. I was late for work.

    What was interesting came after. George W. Bush seems to be last President to get something done. He marshaled Congress, the media, and American people into war. It seems it was politically incorrect in USA to say otherwise.

    In Canada,both of our main broadcasters put up talking heads for both sides of the debate. Canadians were well informed of the pros and cons of going to war. In the end, I think we made the right decision by supporting the war in Afghanistan, but stayed out of Iraq. I wonder had the world just concentrated on Afghanistan, would we have been able to turn that country into a better direction?

    Anyways, I shall plug my TDG again. We made a bad decision because of our system of governance would not allow us to make the best decision at that time. The 17 years of war with nothing to show for it (and we could argue that we have gone backwards) is a sign that the system needs to be changed out. Changing the politicians is not enough.

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    Schmidt Wrote:

    The hypocrisy is that 15 of the 19 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. Another two from the United Arab Emerites, one from Egypt and one from Lebonon. None of these countries, however, made Trump's "Muslim ban list".

    In fact, Saudi Arabia was the first country Trump chose to visit in his presidency. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that the Saudi's also loaned Trump big money...bailing him out of bankruptcy. Oh and those billions of dollars worth of war toys that we sell them means we turn a blind eye to the fact that Americans lost their lives to Saudi terrorists on 9/11.

    I want people who visit this forum and read our posts, whether you're a member here or not, to pay attention to the post above.

    We, the USA is mired in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, and other middle eastern countries with no end in sight.

    It would be as simple as pulling the plug on these operations and just walk away from their disputes, and leave them alone to figure out their own squabbles and civil wars, the US doesn't need to be the world's police force. If it sounds like I'm a nationalist or an isolationist, I'm not, but the USA has gotten itself into other countries messes and our foreign policy just sucks, we'll never learn to leave people alone.

    We normal people don't believe that Iraq ever had WMD's, which is why we went there to kill people. We've ended up killing thousands, and have veterans suffering from injuries sustained during war waged on Iraqis, to show for it, not to mention the billions of dollars spent on something stupid. Iraq never had anything to do with the attacks on us on 9/11. US forces have supposedly killed the planners of the 9/11 attacks, and if people are wondering why the USA is still in Afghanistan and other middle-eastern countries, we as voters should be pressuring our elected officials to withdraw from those areas, and stop defending countries like Saudi Arabia and others who continually practice human rights abuses.

    If we have done anything, we have destabilized the entire middle-east region.

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    The whole of 9/11 is an self inflicted wound. Again our foreign policies "stink", but especially under the GOP Presidents. The 9/11 thing did not surprise me at all. The stupidity of this country is that they always drag in "religion" and don't deal with Israel as an "holy" country. If we would treat every country the same and stay away from religion then the world would be an better place. How many lives has all this fun cost? Let alone the wasted money? Is the world an better place now, because of all our meddling without any results? Especially the GOP and their "evangelicals" have become murderers because of their indoctrinated craziness. Let's take care of our own people first, regardless of color or race, before we tell the world how to live. 9/11 should have been an message, but not understood by our fantastic naive leaders, just pray that will save the world. Amen
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    Worth watching again is Jon Stewart's first broadcast after 9/11. It starts at 1:15 on the clip below:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Xf1Kn53Es

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    In my opinion, one of the best tributes is the 2012 Budweiser Superbowl commercial. It brings tears to my eyes every time that I watch it.

    It only played once.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyP0JsyvYnA

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    that guy in AZ Wrote:

    In my opinion, one of the best tributes is the 2012 Budweiser Superbowl commercial. It brings tears to my eyes every time that I watch it.

    It only played once.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v

    Emotional