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"Abolish ICE" cry from the left

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  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Another new litmus test for liberal progressives is to "ABOLISH ICE". You see it on signs, you hear it at protests, and you now hear it in Congress as three progressive Democrats, Reps Mark Pocan, Pramila Jayapal and Adriano Espaillat, have put together the Establishing a Humane Immigration Enforcement Systems Act, which Republicans have agreed to put to the floor of the House for a vote.

    Notable Democratic leaders like Kirsten Gillibrand and Elizabeth Warren have hopped on the band wagon, but not necessarily in support of the House bill.

    It's an emotional issue when we need cooler heads to prevail. The Chicago Tribune Commentary: Abolish ICE? Let's think it through, rationally, goes into why this is a bad idea, both practically and politically. You can read their article at the link, but they sum it up in the concluding paragraphs:

    "But calls to abolish ICE represent a cry for unfettered illegal immigration into the U.S., not to mention seriously harming U.S. counterterrorism, law enforcement and public safety efforts.

    "Quite simply, abolishing ICE is a primal scream for open borders and less security — an idea that cannot be taken seriously."

    Let's hope that Democrats think through this idea before it takes on an even greater populist appeal by the non-thinking masses on the left that can hurt Democrats chances in the midterm elections.

    My opinion...

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Schmidt; yes I think it won't work. The problem does not lie with ICE, but it is an reflection of a lot of the wrongs in this country. It is again as with the police force here and the same awful leadership and lack of training which causes this. In any "normal" country, certainly you should not hire ex-military; they have no clue related to SERVING the people. They are mostly "bullies" who probably had a bad upbringing. If the "leaders" are a cut of the same and issue the wrong methods then the ICE workers enjoy cruel actions, because they love the bullying. It already starts with Trump; he's the worst example of any President we ever had as well his cronies; thus that example goes all the way through the ranks.

    Again it is the police training and the ICE training which is done wrong; let alone the "leaders" who need re-schooling in mentality.

    As a last point; all what it drives is the filthy "propaganda" from the W.H.

  • Independent
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    Schmidt Wrote:

    Another new litmus test for liberal progressives is to "ABOLISH ICE". You see it on signs, you hear it at protests, and you now hear it in Congress as three progressive Democrats, Reps Mark Pocan, Pramila Jayapal and Adriano Espaillat, have put together the Establishing a Humane Immigration Enforcement Systems Act, which Republicans have agreed to put to the floor of the House for a vote.

    Notable Democratic leaders like Kirsten Gillibrand and Elizabeth Warren have hopped on the band wagon, but not necessarily in support of the House bill.

    It's an emotional issue when we need cooler heads to prevail. The Chicago Tribune Commentary: Abolish ICE? Let's think it through, rationally, goes into why this is a bad idea, both practically and politically. You can read their article at the link, but they sum it up in the concluding paragraphs:

    "But calls to abolish ICE represent a cry for unfettered illegal immigration into the U.S., not to mention seriously harming U.S. counterterrorism, law enforcement and public safety efforts.

    "Quite simply, abolishing ICE is a primal scream for open borders and less security — an idea that cannot be taken seriously."

    Let's hope that Democrats think through this idea before it takes on an even greater populist appeal by the non-thinking masses on the left that can hurt Democrats chances in the midterm elections.

    My opinion...

    They summed it up incorrectly. A cry to abolish ICE is not a cry for unfettered illegal immigration. That is not just nonsense, it is stupid nonsense. And the Trib editorial board knows it. The second sentence is just as stupid. What the cry to abolish ICE is rather is a cry to actually establish a humane method of dealing with the problem. You start by not separating families. You start by the president, Mr. Tangerine Man, ceasing his prattle about MS-13. A tough problem? Yes. But ICE and this president as well as this congress are just as guilty regarding populism as the left is in demanding abolishing ICE.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Dallas, TX
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    Schmidt, I thought the same until I listened to some of the proponents who basically want the agency transformed back to what when customs and immigration enforcement were done by separate agencies.

    Then I read the LA Times article about ICE arresting American citizens and holding one for nearly 3 years. I don’t care anymore about the politics of it, ICE must be abolished and limited government restored.

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    I am all for reforming ICE. It is a multi-function agency that perhaps has too much on it's plate for one person to manage. So if the cry is REFORM ICE or something like that, then yes. But the new populist slogan on the left is ABOLISH ICE, and I very much doubt that the people holding those signs at protest movements actually understand what ICE's function is beyond what they see happening with Trump's and Sessions orders on separating families.

    The call to abolish ICE plays into the Republican propaganda machine. They will go piece by piece, much like the article, and question the reality of it...with the usual ruthless Republican twist. Democrats have enough difficulty getting their own messages across unfiltered, but this one is served up by Dems on a platter...and Republicans are eating it up.

    Is the problem ICE itself or is it more the people at the top giving orders?

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Dallas, TX
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    Reforming ICE implies there would still be an agency with both customs and immigration enforcement duties. Abolish ICE implies something much further. I’m not worried about Republican propaganda. Republicans will always spew propoganda. Walking around on egg shells afraid of what Republicans will say doesn’t win elections. A federal agency that is arresting American citizens and holding them prisoner without trial, in one case for 3 years, and actually deporting them (more like exiling them) is an abomination and the agency should be abolished and we should start from scratch.

  • Independent
    Washington
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    Schmidt Wrote:

    Is the problem ICE itself or is it more the people at the top giving orders?

    IMO, its comes from the top because the trump Adminstration wants to end all forms of illegal and legal immigration as we know it today.

    If trump were to stay in power for as long as he thinks (ie forever), he would have ICE putting landmines on the boarder along with guard towers that have unmanned motion detection, laser targeting, weapons that kills every human target within 500 yards of boarder. Trump thinks simple: Start killing everyone who crosses illegally, and within 5 years illegal immigrant will not want to come here. Problem solved!

  • Independent
    Washington
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    Trump's goal is a paradigm change in immigration.

    From his perspective the ideal is Work Visas only for low income people wanting to come the US. Have a net worth less 1 million? SOL, immigrate to some other country. A low income work visa would limit employment to specific type of non professional jobs (Food services, Janitorial, domestic help, farm labor, etc). In his vision of immigration, let them come here, pay taxes, and clean shit out of toilets for as long as they want those low income jobs. The Work Visa would limit them from having positions higher than minimum wage. They will be forever legally classified as second class non-citizens with far less legal rights. Easily\quickly deported. A cheap disposable\replaceable work force that can be abused. trump loves this idea.

    For full Citizenship, trump's vision would ideally be reserved for those with a lot of wealth. Accept only the top 5% applicants that apply, and charge them 10's of thousands to become US Citizen. Anyone that got money, gets citizenship within a couple of weeks. Trump loves the idea of turning immigration from hard working immigrants to wealthy immigrants that already have millions in the banks.

    Summary. Trump wants dump the entire immigration system. Simplified to this something like this:

    • Work Visas only for lower class. Limited to minimum wage jobs. Disposable work force. No path to citizenship.
    • Legal immigration would be reserved for those who have abundance of wealth. Accept only the top 5% that apply. Make the US a huge country club for the world's rich and famous.

    The good thing is that he won't stay in power long enough to make any of this happen.