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Is Jill Stein a Spoiler?

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  • Center Left Democrat
    Democrat
    California
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    When Donald Trump won in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, he won by a very slim margin. In Michigan, Stein received 51,463 votes while Trump won the state by 10.704. In Pennsylvania, Stein received 49,678 votes while Trump won the state by 46,765 votes and in Wisconsin Stein received 31,006 votes while Trump won the state by 22,177 votes. Those are all slim margins and had Stein not run, those votes in all likelihood would've gone to Hillary.

    theweek.com/speedreads/664953/jill-stei...

    Does Stein deserve to be blamed for costing Hillary Clinton those battleground states?

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    I don't know; however in this crazy country it is impossible to get an multi party system as is done in other countries. In this case with a two party system, who are both are corrupt related to "money/bribery" as well influence peddling by the rich, it is due to an election system which is asking for corruption. Billions are spent to "buy" influence. In any honest election "money" should not be part of it. Also because of no decent "vetting" procedures ahead of any nomination, then indeed you get the Jill Steins or Trump types. Furthermore "electoral colleges" should be erased, nor the "dumb" States should be given priorities. If so, then you get the Sessions, Ryan, Pruitt types who are not fit for their functions. The present system is asking for incompetence all over, as well mass corruption as in any banana republic. If this country wants an functional government then lots of laws have to be changed without all the loopholes as it is now. Neither should a President have that much power nor authority or be untouchable as is the case now; this asking for dictatorship. I've certainly never seen in my life in other civil countries, that a president on its own decides on "tariffs" or "war and peace". This country is asking for all the things happening now.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Dutch said:

    "nor the "dumb" States should be given priorities."

    Discriminating against the mentally challenged??? But as I have said before Democracy is mob rule. If the electoral college is removed then the biggest mob, California, will pick all the future presidents . As bad as it is the electoral college does stand in the way of mob rule. Polls are no good when one answer to a question connotates a more controversial answer as opposed to the other answer being politically correct. That is why Trump was behind in the polls. California was the source of Hillary's popular win. Look at Pennnsylvania , Hillary campaigned and spent money there and still lost Pennsylvania. ***

    *** Footnote will be presented later if needed.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Hillary said: "But every theory needs to be tested against the evidence that I was winning until October 28"

    She was going by the polls and that same day I wrote the post saying people were lying to the pollsters because they were embarrassed to say they supported Trump. Also called the Bradley effect. Right now running the same risk counting Trump out. His support is probably growing because of the backlash against Black Lives Matter. It seems racist white people are going out of their way to stir up trouble. Just this morning an incident at Yale where a white girl called the cops on a black girl sleeping in a common area. The black girl was a resident graduate student.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    My Oct 28 post:

    Thread: Possible for a landslide Trump win.

    There is a scenario for a Trump landslide victory. Looking at polling numbers changing 8 points in a week is a possible answer. It could be the Bradley effect and Trump voters were too embarrassed to say they were voting for the source of the defiling sex recording last week. A little time passes and they rationalize voting for Trump again. In the overall picture I think people are more embarrassed to say they support Trump and feel more positive to say they support Hillary. Couple that with a positive conception of Hillary already winning and some voters not going to vote because of that and it could be a Trump landslide. I hope to see a Nationwide cry for help starting yesterday asking every Democrat and every patriot to get out and vote for Hillary.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Read and need: "Thread: Possible for a landslide Trump win."

    Falling into the same trap again. I think there is a growing white resentment to BLM. Something can't be dismissed because it is blatantly opposite to human and civil rights. Trump is showing more support at recent rallies. People say and act in private a lot different than they do in public regarding controversial matters.

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Tucson, AZ
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    Hillary provides a lot of good answers in her latest book, "What happened?". Although I'm still of the opinion that Comey's memo 11 days before the election may have tipped the balance, it's also likely that Russia meddling was far more effective than we were personally led to believe.

    The "Jill Stein" effect sums up perfectly what a lot of people felt, and our son-in-law is a prime example. Like most of the country, he had correctly determined that Trump was not fit for office. However, he also had fallen victim to all the nonsense about Hillary, who STILL is the most qualified candidate that we have had for a long time.

    He voted for Mickey Mouse, but the electoral college put a rat in the White House.

    See the source image

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Kenosha, WI
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    In Wisconsin, Mrs. Clinton lost twice. April 4th. primary to Sanders, Nov. 6th. to Trump. Not because of Stein either. She abandoned these purple state voters. She never came here. She shunned us. But I still voted for her on Nov. 6th.

    In 2008 and 2012, Wisconsin went solidly to Barack Obama.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    I blame Bernie or busters more than Stein because there is verifiable proof that more than enough Bernie to Donald voters in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin handed Donald the Presidency.

    However, Stein shouldn't get off scot-free because enough crazy far lefties hated Hillary so much that they threw their vote away and voted for someone who stood ZERO chance of winning.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: Discriminating against the mentally challenged??? But as I have said before Democracy is mob rule. If the electoral college is removed then the biggest mob, California, will pick all the future presidents .

    No, the people would pick all the future presidents once we eventually get rid of an outdated system that was created as an incentive for slave states to sign on to the Constitution.

    Democrats in Texas would have just as much power as Republicans in California once we get get rid of a system that allows a bunch of pissed off white assholes to overrule the will of the people. One person, one vote. Why is that so controversial?

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Kenosha, WI
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:

    I blame Bernie or busters more than Stein because there is verifiable proof that more than enough Bernie to Donald voters in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin handed Donald the Presidency.

    However, Stein shouldn't get off scot-free because enough crazy far lefties hated Hillary so much that they threw their vote away and voted for someone who stood ZERO chance of winning.

    A brutally honest assessment. Some D voters were purely Sanders backers, and didn't even think about voting for Mrs. Clinton, even though Sanders got his ass handed to him on April 4th.. It was Sanders or bust. IMO, the DNC should never have let him into the party mainly because he is an Independent, you're either a true blue democrat or you're not. And yeah, I know, he caucuses with democrats...
  • Center Left Democrat
    Democrat
    California
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:

    I blame Bernie or busters more than Stein because there is verifiable proof that more than enough Bernie to Donald voters in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin handed Donald the Presidency.

    However, Stein shouldn't get off scot-free because enough crazy far lefties hated Hillary so much that they threw their vote away and voted for someone who stood ZERO chance of winning.

    I was a Bernie volunteer and, after he lost, I went over to Hillary Clinton and did phonebanking work for her. So you shouldn't lump all Bernie voters in the same boat.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Raymond Wrote: I was a Bernie volunteer and, after he lost, I went over to Hillary Clinton and did phonebanking work for her. So you shouldn't lump all Bernie voters in the same boat.

    I never have.

    I have been pretty specific in blaming the “Bernie or Busters” in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin for the mess we find ourselves in. It is a fact that Bernie to Donald voters in those three states gave Donald more than enough votes to “win” the Presodency over the will of the American people.

  • Independent
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    Third party candidates draw votes from somewhere either Democratic or Republican candidate. In the cause of Stein it was from Hillary. The Berniebros who voted for Trump are idiots. The voters who let Russian bots change the minds or who suffered from Hillary hatred were idiots as well. The racists and misogynists were simply Republican voters who were activated to vote by Trumps rhetoric. They likely never voted much previously since their chosen party, republican, wasn't doing or saying much to them. They weren't going to vote Democratic anyhow.
  • Independent
    Washington
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    I am not convinced it was one big thing that caused HC to loose. I see it more like a perfect storm of events. HC likely would have won if one 1-2 negative events had not occurred, or occurred with different timing.