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Let Us See Your Papers Please

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  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Kenosha, WI
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    A recent trip to my state's DMV, or Division Of Motor Vehicles, to renew my driver's license. An epic fail!

    My number is called, I didn't even have the paperwork filled out yet, and I signaled to the clerk I wasn't ready yet, she waved me over anyway, saying that's okay, you can finish it here. I approached the window, and she said I need to see the following documents: my expiring DL, my proof of address e.g utility invoice/bill, my checkbook w/address, or other things that prove where I reside, my birth certificate, blah, blah, blah. I had an old government issue folder that I presented with all that. I presented my birth certificate. Now, does a birth certificate PROVE who you really are? NO. It's just a piece of paper that says a person was born and where and when they were born. There's no picture of you. There's no way to prove that the certificate is REALLY YOU! If birth certificates had pictures of you or your neighbor, it might look like the photo below, and it might even tell your political leanings.

    So, after presenting my birth certificate, she said that my certificate was not acceptable. WHAT? She told be that my paper did not have the raised seal on it. Like a notary public certifies a document, they use this handheld stamper that they insert your document into and press a seal onto it. Mine had the seal, and written and typed certifier, but it was not raised.

    Note: if you do not present a certified original document, you will be able to obtain a DL, which will allow you to vote, but if you want to fly on commercial flights, or need to enter federal buildings, you will not be able to. That's the one I ended up getting. Okay, since I cannot enter federal buildings now, and I am under medical care by the Veterans Administration, how will I obtain my medical care. I presented this conundrum to a Military Police Department, and they could not answer my question. I contacted the VA with the same inquiry. Their answer was that IF I had a VA ID card, I would be permitted to enter any VA medical facility for care.

    Here's a problem. People who might have been in a different state will need to pay exorbitant fees for obtaining a certified sealed original or copy of their birth certificate. I found this out because doing an internet search, I was able to obtain that document from the county clerk's office where I was born. I can print a form, fill it out and mail it to the clerk, and I must include a photo copy of my picture DL. For people who are poorer than I, obtaining a valid birth certificate could be a problem. But, poor people rarely fly on commercial airlines, and rarely enter federal buildings, right? And, what about people who need to visit their local Social Security Administration office, will they be denied access if they do not have the REAL ID?

    Thanks DHS and Bush 43 for making people's lives more difficult by making America more safe! The new identification required these days is called REAL ID, therefore, I must possess the UNREAL ID.

    Here's what you need to know: dhs.gov/real-id-public-faqs

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Dockadams Wrote:

    A recent trip to my state's DMV, or Division Of Motor Vehicles, to renew my driver's license. An epic fail!

    My number is called, I didn't even have the paperwork filled out yet, and I signaled to the clerk I wasn't ready yet, she waved me over anyway, saying that's okay, you can finish it here. I approached the window, and she said I need to see the following documents: my expiring DL, my proof of address e.g utility invoice/bill, my checkbook w/address, or other things that prove where I reside, my birth certificate, blah, blah, blah. I had an old government issue folder that I presented with all that. I presented my birth certificate. Now, does a birth certificate PROVE who you really are? NO. It's just a piece of paper that says a person was born and where and when they were born. There's no picture of you. There's no way to prove that the certificate is REALLY YOU! If birth certificates had pictures of you or your neighbor, it might look like the photo below, and it might even tell your political leanings.

    So, after presenting my birth certificate, she said that my certificate was not acceptable. WHAT? She told be that my paper did not have the raised seal on it. Like a notary public certifies a document, they use this handheld stamper that they insert your document into and press a seal onto it. Mine had the seal, and written and typed certifier, but it was not raised.

    Note: if you do not present a certified original document, you will be able to obtain a DL, which will allow you to vote, but if you want to fly on commercial flights, or need to enter federal buildings, you will not be able to. That's the one I ended up getting. Okay, since I cannot enter federal buildings now, and I am under medical care by the Veterans Administration, how will I obtain my medical care. I presented this conundrum to a Military Police Department, and they could not answer my question. I contacted the VA with the same inquiry. Their answer was that IF I had a VA ID card, I would be permitted to enter any VA medical facility for care.

    Here's a problem. People who might have been in a different state will need to pay exorbitant fees for obtaining a certified sealed original or copy of their birth certificate. I found this out because doing an internet search, I was able to obtain that document from the county clerk's office where I was born. I can print a form, fill it out and mail it to the clerk, and I must include a photo copy of my picture DL. For people who are poorer than I, obtaining a valid birth certificate could be a problem. But, poor people rarely fly on commercial airlines, and rarely enter federal buildings, right? And, what about people who need to visit their local Social Security Administration office, will they be denied access if they do not have the REAL ID?

    Thanks DHS and Bush 43 for making people's lives more difficult by making America more safe! The new identification required these days is called REAL ID, therefore, I must possess the UNREAL ID.

    Here's what you need to know: dhs.gov/real-id-public-faqs

    Same here. I had to update information on my DL because of an upgrade in the GVW to over 10k lbs of a new service truck I bought. My license was not expired just a change. Went online to update and followed the prompts til it finally said I had to go to the DMV. Went there and was informed I had to have the same info you mentioned, I'm in FL. I told the girl I have a valid current license isn't that proof enough? She said no. I asked her if my current license isn't valid proof of my ID shouldn't I be arrested for driving with a fake license ? She laughed and said to bring the information stated and printed it out. She said it was stated on the internet. When I got home I checked and after it said I had to go to the DMV it did list the documents. Said birth certificate was needed to prove citizenship .
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Tucson, AZ
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    The problem that both of you have faced is largely due to the fact that far too many states pay attention to the ideas presented by the American Legislative Exchange Council. Here's the section about voter ID:

    https://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_&_Voting_Rights

    Deb Lesko, the woman who was the ALEC chairman in Arizona, just got elected to the House of Representatives, which means that is even more important for the Democrats to gain control of the House in November.

    So far, Arizona does not require a photo ID or proof of citizenship, but the MAJORITY of the states have voter ID requirements:

    As of May 3, 2018, 34 states enforced (or were scheduled to begin enforcing) voter identification requirements. A total of 18 states required voters to present photo identification, while 16 accepted other forms of identification. In some states, a voter who is unable to present valid identification may still be permitted to vote without casting a provisional ballot; this is known as a non-strict requirement. In 10 of the 18 states that require a photo ID, the requirement is non-strict. In 13 of the 16 states that require non-photo identification, the requirement is non-strict. In the remaining states, voters without valid forms of identification are required to cast provisional ballots; this is known as a strict requirement. Valid forms of identification differ by state. Commonly accepted forms of ID include driver's licenses, state-issued identification cards, and military identification cards.

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Kenosha, WI
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    Yes, my state is one which has strict voter ID requirements (Wisconsin) and my renewal date was not until July, but there was an address change, moved from one apartment to another, but I did my renewal early so I could go to my polling place with a corrected or recent DL to vote in the midterm election cycle. Even though I did not receive the REAL ID, I am still allowed to vote.

    One member stated that the reason for having to produce a birth certificate is to prove citizenship. Again, a birth certificate does not prove citizenship, it does not prove who you are. Most people my age were never photographed or fingerprinted to prove who we are. After being licensed for about 48 years to operate motor vehicles, I cannot remember if I ever produced a birth record to obtain my original driver's license. I'm sure I did because back then, and even now, certified birth records are still used as an identity document. In this day and age, it is so easy to replicate and enter false/falsify information on documents, it's a wonder we're all not microchipped to prove our identities. My wife's hospital certificate of birth from the hospital where she was born has a footprint on it. She didn't have a certified/stamped birth certificate/document either. Maybe they'll want to check her footprint so they can positively identify her?

    I think it's all a ridiculous expensive waste of time.

    One thing that's particularly troublesome, is that poor people who do not have the resources or know how, may not be able to vote if they don't have the proper documentation to obtain a REAL ID. It seems the republicans behind all of this knew what they were doing, just like their gerrymandering tactics. Their policies actually hurt people who would vote, but face so many obstacles they just give up and don't.