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Hydrogen Plants

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  • Brooks, AB
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    One common criticism of wind and solar energy production is when the weather does not cooperate. Because our AC power grids really cannot store electricity, having the electricity not produced by weather means ramping up traditional energy production.

    But what if we could store electricity? Here's one way.

    When weather is really cooperative to generate electricity, use the excess electricity to split water atoms into hydrogen and oxygen. Store the hydrogen. When the weather is less favorable and there is lower production from wind and solar, use the hydrogen to create electricity rather than the traditional means. Put that electricity into the grid.

    More commentary on "hydrogen plants" can be found here.

  • Independent
    Washington
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    As a general comment, such technology will be primary source of energy in the future. Its just a matter of time. Will it be 10 years? 25 years? 50+ years?

    My hope is that the US develops the technology and is the forerunners rather than watch the rest of the world move forward, but because of politics, we refuse to adopt efficient and clean sources of energy. Unhealthy Politics can prevent what is best and obvious because some groups of people and companies have enough political power stop forward progress because it means they will have to change in ways they do not want.

    The multi-million dollar horse industry hated the Model T car and Henry Ford because a lot horse related businesses closed over the course of couple decades. If they could have, the would have put in place laws that made it so the automobiles could not be used in such ways that replaced the horse.

  • Independent
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    I am not going to nay-say the idea. That being said infrastructure including compressor stations and storage facilities will be necessary. This costs money and someone will have to pay. Who pays is always the question. The private sector wants the advantages but wants to offload the costs on consumers or government. The private sector many times are as socialist as the come.
  • Brooks, AB
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    wwjd Wrote:

    As a general comment, such technology will be primary source of energy in the future. Its just a matter of time. Will it be 10 years? 25 years? $50+ years?

    Near the end of his book "The Turning Point", Dr. Fritof Capra called for the hydrogen economy in which this commodity actually becomes the currency. It will be interesting to see that time.

    Dr. Capra takes us through the development of many scientific and humanistic models of understanding our world. He shows us how the old models were replaced by better models and speculates current models are likely to be replaced. Despite this, he leaves western democracy as the only way humanity can govern itself.

  • Brooks, AB
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    lonely bird Wrote: I am not going to nay-say the idea. That being said infrastructure including compressor stations and storage facilities will be necessary. This costs money and someone will have to pay. Who pays is always the question. The private sector wants the advantages but wants to offload the costs on consumers or government. The private sector many times are as socialist as the come.

    Ideally speaking, this transition to hydrogen storage should be done with electricity suppliers making their investment decisions to the hydrogen storage.

    We will need to develop a market price that depends on weather. For example, the price for electricity should be a little higher at night to compensate for the loss of power from solar panels. With this nightly premium, the solar suppliers can decide whether to put their electricity directly into the grid during the day or store it as hydrogen to be consumed during the night. The same goes for windy and calm days. In this way, the swing production moves from traditional electricity generation to renewable electricity generation. Then we can put those coal and nuclear plants et al to rest.

  • Independent
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    Dave Volek Wrote:
    lonely bird Wrote: I am not going to nay-say the idea. That being said infrastructure including compressor stations and storage facilities will be necessary. This costs money and someone will have to pay. Who pays is always the question. The private sector wants the advantages but wants to offload the costs on consumers or government. The private sector many times are as socialist as the come.

    Ideally speaking, this transition to hydrogen storage should be done with electricity suppliers making their investment decisions to the hydrogen storage.

    We will need to develop a market price that depends on weather. For example, the price for electricity should be a little higher at night to compensate for the loss of power from solar panels. With this nightly premium, the solar suppliers can decide whether to put their electricity directly into the grid during the day or store it as hydrogen to be consumed during the night. The same goes for windy and calm days. In this way, the swing production moves from traditional electricity generation to renewable electricity generation. Then we can put those coal and nuclear plants et al to rest.

    Agreed. Ideally. Unfortunately power companies will not do so unless forced to do so. They are not in business to supply clean power, dirty power or any power. They are in business to make money. So if they can make money by providing power via the leverage of torn up environmental regulations then they will do so.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Right now the technology would use too much electricity.
  • Independent
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: Right now the technology would use too much electricity.
    The important ratio is er/ei, energy returned over energy invested. It must be at worst 1. If it is less than 1 it is not worth doing.
  • Brooks, AB
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    lonely bird Wrote:
    Chet Ruminski Wrote: Right now the technology would use too much electricity.
    The important ratio is er/ei, energy returned over energy invested. It must be at worst 1. If it is less than 1 it is not worth doing.

    Pumped water storage is a common practice. We are using electricity at night to pump water uphill, then release the water in the day when the demand is higher. Because the conversion from night-time electricity-->water storage-->day-time electricity is less than 100%, the price differential must be enough for the electrical providers to do this.

    In this sense, we cannot assume that night-time and day-time electricity is equivalent. In other words, 1 J in day is not the same as 1J at night. Likewise 1 J is gasoline is not the same as 1 J in methane or 1J in food.