Forum Thread

Are you sure you want to delete this post?

It's not about marketable skills. It is about putting money into circulation. If it is based on marketable skills. the profit motive winner take all , then eventually everybody will become obsolete . Citizens have a right to be protected by their country . And if the danger is removing money from the system then citizens have a right to be protected from that.

Carlitos

04-09-2018 10:42:31 PM

Not Logged In

Carlitos

1.7k

4

Democrat

Dallas, TX

Are you sure you want to delete this post?

Chet, all kinds of even centrist Democrats are getting behind the Job Guarantee idea, whose non politician proponents go way beyond the MMT crowd. Sen. Warren is even studying and formulating actual legislation. This would eliminate involuntary unemployment and be the greatest anti poverty program in the history of mankind. And it can be defended under very conservative limited govt grounds.

Secondly, as I’ve explained before, savings are a demand leakage, and if the leakages are so high it’s slowing down growth or reversing it(paradox of thrift), the solution is more govt spending for public purpose and/or tax cuts for those with the highest propensity to spend(ie tax cuts for the lower classes).

Chet Ruminski

04-10-2018 12:11:37 AM

Not Logged In

Are you sure you want to delete this post?

"savings" Absolutely no reason for savings . Savings is essentially giving the money earned back. The term savings is one of the biggest frauds perpetuated . There is no savings in the contemporary sense. Money earned is put back into the hands of investors . Saving for retirement is the biggest swindle. It is a tax cut for business. Instead of taxes paying for retirement taxes are cut and workers are forced to kick back earned money to fund tax cuts.

Chet Ruminski

04-10-2018 12:17:24 AM

Not Logged In

Are you sure you want to delete this post?

"(ie tax cuts for the lower classes)"

Which would be good paying jobs. Taxes would pay for public works. Labor shortage would increase pay for good paying jobs.

Dutch

04-10-2018 08:36:27 AM

Not Logged In

Dutch

9.3k

1

31

Independent

Ft.myers, FL

Are you sure you want to delete this post?

jaredsxtn Wrote:
I fully agree with you a million times over that the plight of the poor is a travesty considering we live in the worlds richest country, but I just don't accept that simply giving everyone "good paying jobs" will be the panacea that magically cures all of our ills.
Dramatically increasing the minimum wage to what would be considered a living wage? I'm all for it. I'd even go one step further and say we need to start having a serious conversation about universal basic income.
The thing is that I don't think you're willing to accept that the jobs of yesteryear are never going to come back. Someone who drops out of school at 16 is never going to be able to find a job on a factory line making Tesla's in the same way someone who dropped out of school at 16 was able to find a job on the factory line making Model T's. That's just not going to happen in the modern world.
Education. Education. Education. We have to go all in with education if we ever want to have a society that can compete in the modern world.
My grandpa ran away from home at 16, joined the Navy after giving them a fake birth date, and then raised three children with his salary from the electric company he worked for. His life has fascinated me and I am so lucky that he is still alive, but if he were born in 1999 instead of 1929 then his life story would be dramatically different.
Those days are gone. We can lament it as much as we want, but that's not going to change the fact that those days are gone. And we should never, ever forget that those days were great for white men and white men only. My 89 year old grandpa has told me multiple times how well he is aware of that.
Utility workers like my grandpa are being phased out and wind turbine, solar cell, and hydroelectric workers are being phased in. And the utility workers that remain require a degree in engineering or are relegated to tree trimming to help prevent downed power lines.
The 21st Century is different than the 20th. What worked in 1933 isn't going to work in 2018 and beyond.

Excellent piece Jared, compliments! Like I said so many times "education" is lacking here; people would vote differently if they all have "proper" education. If you look at the teacher walkout in the "backward States" then it should be clear that they vote "red". Also those teachers there need re-education related to how do you become "analytic" in thinking , as well "human" nature and what is the "world" all about, by not only "preaching" how great the US is, but also learn the kids to be able to stand in some one else's shoes wherever in the world on how they view the US. "Island" mentality will ruin this country; we live now in an world were everything is intertwined; "isolation" as Trump promotes is therefore always a wrong solution and is looking "backwards" instead of "forwards.

Related to your last line; this also should apply to the Constitution as well all the "laws" here, including "voting" laws as well appropiate "laws" applicable to a President (instead of just "rules") and the "vetting" of a President; It is crazy that Mueller is now doing the "vetting" AFTERWARDS.

Chet Ruminski

04-10-2018 09:47:13 AM

Not Logged In

Are you sure you want to delete this post?

Education, or starve. Dutch , people are not needed as much and continue to be needed less. Progress is cheaper, faster and easier. That is obsolescence for workers. Fighting over remaining jobs can and surly will be won by the more educated. What do the rest of the people do besides join the hundreds of millions of impoverished people. A system of winner take all does not advance society. Education is another way to discriminate. Arbitrarty discrimination is evil in any form. Money being put back into circulation doesn't discriminate against the less fortunate . Everybody could have a job. Education about human rights is humane. Education to compete for jobs is not.

Chet Ruminski

04-10-2018 09:57:57 AM

Not Logged In

Are you sure you want to delete this post?

In a country fighting disappearing jobs the following types of programs would become permanent:

" 1933 Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) ...

1933 Federal Emergency Relief Administration (FERA) ...
1933 Public Works Administration (PWA) ...
1933 Civil Works Administration (CWA) ...
1935 Works Progress Administration (WPA) "

Chet Ruminski

04-10-2018 11:49:24 AM

Not Logged In

Are you sure you want to delete this post?

"The thing is that I don't think you're willing to accept that the jobs of yesteryear are never going to come back."

That has nothing to do with the situation. The government needs to look out for the citizens . Basing jobs on ability to fulfill a financial need is obsolete. The surplus of workers is growing. A welfare state is not the solution. Taxing is the solution. Taxing profits to create jobs is the solution. Parks and recreation!!! Economically justifying dies exponentially with progress. Cheaper faster easier is progress. Taxing cheaper faster easier is the solution.

Dockadams

04-10-2018 12:01:51 PM

Not Logged In

Dockadams

1.8k

Democrat

Kenosha, WI

Are you sure you want to delete this post?

Can a blue collar person prosper, or be prosperous?

Define occupations which are blue collar:

coal miner? truck driver? machinist? mechanic?

Blue collar disparity: having hours cut back, making less money than before, being laid off, being fired, always being at risk of losing a steady job, being at risk having to obtain several part time jobs.

Loss of property, mortgage company repossession, automobile repossessions, relationship problems, unforeseen illnesses, etc..

(Simple to achieve)

not in this day and age. Employers are no longer loyal or appreciative of their employees. Employees no longer show any loyalty to one employer. These qualities ended about 40 years ago.

jaredsxtn

04-10-2018 02:30:48 PM

Not Logged In

jaredsxtn

6.2k

103

89

Democrat

Portland, OR

Are you sure you want to delete this post?

Chet Ruminski Wrote:
"The thing is that I don't think you're willing to accept that the jobs of yesteryear are never going to come back."
That has nothing to do with the situation.

It has everything to do with the situation. As I tried to argue in more detail as I went further in my post, the jobs of today require technical skills in a way that the jobs of yesteryear did not.

Construction jobs? Highly technical now. Assembly line jobs? The same. The list goes on and on. Congress can pass a ten trillion dollar infrastructure package today, but the fact of the matter is that machines, not people, will be doing the vast majority of the work.

Chet Ruminski Wrote: The government needs to look out for the citizens . Basing jobs on ability to fulfill a financial need is obsolete.

That's why the government needs to invest heavily in education. What better way to look out for the citizens then to prepare them for the future? How is that even something we are still debating as a country?

Chet Ruminski Wrote: The surplus of workers is growing. A welfare state is not the solution. Taxing is the solution. Taxing profits to create jobs is the solution. Parks and recreation!!! Economically justifying dies exponentially with progress. Cheaper faster easier is progress. Taxing cheaper faster easier is the solution.

We already live in a welfare state, Chet! What would you call Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, SNAP, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, Section 8 Housing, etc.?

Everyone already has their hands in the cookie jar, but the benefits the cookie jar disperses skewers heavily towards the super rich.

I'm all for higher taxes and I'm all for using those higher taxes to help out the millions of struggling Americans just trying to get by, but you can't force companies to hire supremely unqualified individuals.

That's why, once again, we HAVE to invest in educating our children to prepare them for the future and why we HAVE to invest in education for individuals who lost their jobs due to technology or outsourcing. Those jobs aren't going to come back, so we have to help those people move forward and not stay stuck in the past.

Chet Ruminski

04-10-2018 03:06:37 PM

Not Logged In

Are you sure you want to delete this post?

"but you can't force companies to hire supremely unqualified individuals"

Nobody has to be forced to do anything . Reward jobs producing investing and penalize uninterested investing and good paying jobs will spring up everywhere . Jobs disappeared because incredible numbers of money has been taken out of the goods and services economy and stagnated in the futures financial trading, a huge unregulated financial sector.

jaredsxtn

04-10-2018 04:24:11 PM

Not Logged In

jaredsxtn

6.2k

103

89

Democrat

Portland, OR

Are you sure you want to delete this post?

Chet Ruminski Wrote:
"but you can't force companies to hire supremely unqualified individuals"
Nobody has to be forced to do anything . Reward jobs producing investing and penalize uninterested investing and good paying jobs will spring up everywhere .

Who's doing the hiring, Chet?

What do you even mean by "reward jobs producing investing" anyway?

Every company other than social welfare companies aren't in it to produce jobs, but to make a profit! And those who work for social welfare companies aren't in it for the money, but to make a difference. (I can speak from personal experience after spending many years working at a group home for behaviorally challenged kids who were dumped by their parents. No worker there was doing it because we loved how much money we were making.)

You honestly seem to be stuck in the past, Chet. The types of jobs that were able to employ hundreds of thousands of individuals who had little to no education are gone and they are gone forever. You can insist! that simply "rewarding jobs producing investing" will fix it, but you are living in a fantasy land.

The factory line of yesteryear is now a factory line of machines working 24/7 which have a team of engineers monitoring them. The dam builder of yesteryear is now a team of machines. I can go on and on (and on and on and on and on).

Chet Ruminski Wrote: Jobs disappeared because incredible numbers of money has been taken out of the goods and services economy and stagnated in the futures financial trading, a huge unregulated financial sector.

That's an extremely elementary way of talking about a stubbornly complex issue.

I personally believe that jobs disappeared for numerous reasons. Americans demanded cheaper goods, so businesses packed up shop and moved their operations to third world countries. As the 20th Century moved along, technological innovation and the interconnection of the globe progressed at an exponential rate, too fast for some.

At the same time, our government hasn't prepared its citizens for the future they are now living in. Ever wonder why we need an H1B Visa in the first place? It's because we don't educate our own citizens in math and science.

I understand you are convinced that regulating the financial industry more will magically cure every ill facing our society, but I just don't see it. That may have worked in 1933, but it's not going to work in 2018.

Carlitos

04-10-2018 09:57:56 PM

Not Logged In

Carlitos

1.7k