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Trump Tariffs

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  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Dave Volek Wrote:
    wwjd Wrote:

    For the reasons you have stated, the new system will have to be built outside the current system. The traditional ways of protesting and getting media attention will not work.


    What are you suggesting need to be done?

    I can't get into too many details. But if you google my name, you should find where I am coming from. There might be a hockey player of the same name. He is not me. But I and my radical ideas are usually easily found.

    Dave, sorry but doing things "outside" the system is kind of weird, unless you mean an "revolution" as they did in France way back.

    Due to that the whole system is corrupted here and is like an decease, then you can't eradicate such, because everyone in the top benefits from it. Only in an parlementary system things work, because the leader is only an coordinator but not an person who can profit from his/her position. In the Netherlands the Prime Minister which I knew, went on his bicycle to work without a load of secret police. Just having a President run "system" costs fortunes; Trump already spent more than 200 million on trips for himself. He thrives on corruption. Like I've said a million times ; take the "money" out of elections and "governing". People in our government are forgetting that they work for us, not the other way around. We are paying their salaries let alone what we are paying for having Trump and his incompetent cronies.

  • Brooks, AB
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    Dutch Wrote:
    Dave Volek Wrote:
    wwjd Wrote:

    For the reasons you have stated, the new system will have to be built outside the current system. The traditional ways of protesting and getting media attention will not work.


    What are you suggesting need to be done?

    I can't get into too many details. But if you google my name, you should find where I am coming from. There might be a hockey player of the same name. He is not me. But I and my radical ideas are usually easily found.

    Dave, sorry but doing things "outside" the system is kind of weird, unless you mean an "revolution" as they did in France way back.

    Due to that the whole system is corrupted here and is like an decease, then you can't eradicate such, because everyone in the top benefits from it. Only in an parlementary system things work, because the leader is only an coordinator but not an person who can profit from his/her position. In the Netherlands the Prime Minister which I knew, went on his bicycle to work without a load of secret police. Just having a President run "system" costs fortunes; Trump already spent more than 200 million on trips for himself. He thrives on corruption. Like I've said a million times ; take the "money" out of elections and "governing". People in our government are forgetting that they work for us, not the other way around. We are paying their salaries let alone what we are paying for having Trump and his incompetent cronies.

    wwjd: Sorry I can't provide more detail on this forum. My ideas offend the politically left as well as the politically right. I'm not sure whether the owner/moderator of this forum can handle the controversy. I want to be here a little bit longer.

    Getting back to your money influencing politics, I have a couple of points to make:

    1) How do you propose going from cronyism to a more fair system when the two political parties in the USA are tied to the money tree?

    2) In the end, BIG MONEY still seems to find its influence despite any rules to limit it.

  • Independent
    Washington
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    wwjd: Sorry I can't provide more detail on this forum. My ideas offend the politically left as well as the politically right. I'm not sure whether the owner/moderator of this forum can handle the controversy. I want to be here a little bit longer.

    I think the forum can handle it; I don't see anything wrong with a healthy discussion of different ideas. I am assuming you're not advocating rounding up minority ethnic groups, forcing them to get GPS tracking brain implants, then shipping them off to Gitmo.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Dave Volek Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote:
    Dave Volek Wrote:
    wwjd Wrote:

    For the reasons you have stated, the new system will have to be built outside the current system. The traditional ways of protesting and getting media attention will not work.


    What are you suggesting need to be done?

    I can't get into too many details. But if you google my name, you should find where I am coming from. There might be a hockey player of the same name. He is not me. But I and my radical ideas are usually easily found.

    Dave, sorry but doing things "outside" the system is kind of weird, unless you mean an "revolution" as they did in France way back.

    Due to that the whole system is corrupted here and is like an decease, then you can't eradicate such, because everyone in the top benefits from it. Only in an parlementary system things work, because the leader is only an coordinator but not an person who can profit from his/her position. In the Netherlands the Prime Minister which I knew, went on his bicycle to work without a load of secret police. Just having a President run "system" costs fortunes; Trump already spent more than 200 million on trips for himself. He thrives on corruption. Like I've said a million times ; take the "money" out of elections and "governing". People in our government are forgetting that they work for us, not the other way around. We are paying their salaries let alone what we are paying for having Trump and his incompetent cronies.

    wwjd: Sorry I can't provide more detail on this forum. My ideas offend the politically left as well as the politically right. I'm not sure whether the owner/moderator of this forum can handle the controversy. I want to be here a little bit longer.

    Getting back to your money influencing politics, I have a couple of points to make:

    1) How do you propose going from cronyism to a more fair system when the two political parties in the USA are tied to the money tree?

    2) In the end, BIG MONEY still seems to find its influence despite any rules to limit it.

    Sorry your statement does not make any sense; there are countries where hardly any corruption takes place; how about the Scandinavian countries, ever observed that? Like I've said so many times the system here "started" with corruption even in 1776 by stealing this land from the Indians and robbing the natural resources. Just look at any Western movie. The Constitution was written solely by "white" people, in order to cover their asses also in the future; they invented also all the lawyers to defend it. Sorry corruption is part of life in the US, and can only be eradicated by very drastic measures. No one wants to do that, because the one's who should do such are also in on the "take". Therefore this won't last; it will end up the same as the Roman empire.
  • Brooks, AB
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    Dutch Wrote:
    Sorry your statement does not make any sense; there are countries where hardly any corruption takes place; how about the Scandinavian countries, ever observed that? Like I've said so many times the system here "started" with corruption even in 1776 by stealing this land from the Indians and robbing the natural resources. Just look at any Western movie. The Constitution was written solely by "white" people, in order to cover their asses also in the future; they invented also all the lawyers to defend it. Sorry corruption is part of life in the US, and can only be eradicated by very drastic measures. No one wants to do that, because the one's who should do such are also in on the "take". Therefore this won't last; it will end up the same as the Roman empire.

    Other than I am not making any sense, the above paragraph is pretty accurate.

    1) Americans need to understand their own history if they are ever to move past it.

    2) The Scandinavian countries have their political parties funded a lot by the government. Canada has adopted this to some extent. I would say that it has reduced corruption, but there is still is a fair amount of influence peddling happening. The corrupt economy is just more underground--and probably a much lower percentage of the GDP. But it is still happening. Ask your average Swede about the politicians in that country. You will still get a lot of contempt.

    3) I would say my solution is a much bigger "drastic measure" than anything that is being thought in the USA these days. And the average people will be championing this cause--when they get passed their notion that western democracy can be saved.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Dave, as you said in life nothing is perfect; however I do prefer a Swedish model far above the corruption here.
  • Brooks, AB
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    Dutch Wrote: Dave, as you said in life nothing is perfect; however I do prefer a Swedish model far above the corruption here.

    Dutch.

    But again, I think the average Swede sees his politicians with more contempt than respect. This contempt rooted in the party system in that aspiring Swedes still need to rise in the party structure to gain enough influence within the party to be a position to conquer in that party. There is still a lot of gamemansship being played on the way to the top--even though the Swedes, looking at them from the outside and across the ocean, seem to have something better.

    Having said that, I am happy to be living in Canada and not the USA. And I would say Sweden would be a better place than the USA.

    But we need to rise higher than that. We need a system that the general citizenry respects and trusts, rather than just tolerates. The Swedes aren't there yet.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Dave Volek Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: Dave, as you said in life nothing is perfect; however I do prefer a Swedish model far above the corruption here.

    Dutch.

    But again, I think the average Swede sees his politicians with more contempt than respect. This contempt rooted in the party system in that aspiring Swedes still need to rise in the party structure to gain enough influence within the party to be a position to conquer in that party. There is still a lot of gamemansship being played on the way to the top--even though the Swedes, looking at them from the outside and across the ocean, seem to have something better.

    Having said that, I am happy to be living in Canada and not the USA. And I would say Sweden would be a better place than the USA.

    But we need to rise higher than that. We need a system that the general citizenry respects and trusts, rather than just tolerates. The Swedes aren't there yet.

    Dave I lived in Canada for 9 years; it is not paradise either; they were very late (in the 1960's) with social services or government run pensions; I worked for Shell Canada as an analyst for "geo" field records. So I worked all over the place and can therefore judge how good the "social services" actually were/are. The point I'm making is about "corruption" ; Canada as well Sweden should be an example of much less corruption in elections as well governing . In the US they can't do without it. At least in the Netherlands "corruption" is a dirty word; good healthcare, great infrastructure, clean environment , great social services, no rip off's in healthcare etc. The "royal" family mingles with the crowd with hardly any security in sight.
  • Brooks, AB
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    Dutch Wrote:
    Dave I lived in Canada for 9 years; it is not paradise either; they were very late (in the 1960's) with social services or government run pensions; I worked for Shell Canada as an analyst for "geo" field records. So I worked all over the place and can therefore judge how good the "social services" actually were/are. The point I'm making is about "corruption" ; Canada as well Sweden should be an example of much less corruption in elections as well governing . In the US they can't do without it. At least in the Netherlands "corruption" is a dirty word; good healthcare, great infrastructure, clean environment , great social services, no rip off's in healthcare etc. The "royal" family mingles with the crowd with hardly any security in sight.

    Dutch: You said this very well. Canada and Sweden are examples USA should take a closer look at. But as you said, they are not paradises. And the average citizen still has contempt for his or her elected leaders. And this contempt affects what our leaders can or cannot do.

    To help make the world a better place, I spent six years in party politics, hoping my presence would somehow help. I saw how the interests of the political party are often not aligned with the interests of the nation. I came to the conclusion that I was wasting my time---and invented something better.

    Going back to the USA, the example of Canada and Sweden are too "socialist" for most Americans to consider seriously. And even though USA has many socialist programs in it, I'm coming to the conclusion that these programs are not well designed--and only put up to placate certain demographics to vote a certain way on election day --- or possibly stay away from the polls. To get the changes USA you and I seem to agree on, I think USA needs to build a new system from the ground up. Or maybe I should say 1% of Americans need to start building this system.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Dave, yes you see it correctly; for the Americans "socialism" is a dirty word; they immediately tie it to "communism" while that is totally different. Like you said the US with its antique Constitution has politically never evolved to present day needs in its laws. The zillion lawyers have made an huge mess of this document and drown in the paperwork to prove their interpretation of 1800's laws. Like the "second amendment" ; it says nowhere that you can own an AR 15, but the NRA lawyers "prove" that you can. Sorry this country is an real banana republic, but does not wants to admit it. All the laws here are so convoluted it is pathetic. There are no solid laws for a "President"; only "rules" or "clauses" which are vague with huge loopholes. Trump knows that and therefore can easily become worlds biggest dictator. The "forefathers" here never anticipated that people like Trump could become "leaders" and wrote their "base" law on the assumption that everyone in this country would be God fearing and not lie or cheat or corrupt. But yeah a zillion lawyers won't fix that either; thus downhill with the joint.
  • Brooks, AB
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    Dutch Wrote: Dave, yes you see it correctly; for the Americans "socialism" is a dirty word; they immediately tie it to "communism" while that is totally different. Like you said the US with its antique Constitution has politically never evolved to present day needs in its laws. The zillion lawyers have made an huge mess of this document and drown in the paperwork to prove their interpretation of 1800's laws. Like the "second amendment" ; it says nowhere that you can own an AR 15, but the NRA lawyers "prove" that you can. Sorry this country is an real banana republic, but does not wants to admit it. All the laws here are so convoluted it is pathetic. There are no solid laws for a "President"; only "rules" or "clauses" which are vague with huge loopholes. Trump knows that and therefore can easily become worlds biggest dictator. The "forefathers" here never anticipated that people like Trump could become "leaders" and wrote their "base" law on the assumption that everyone in this country would be God fearing and not lie or cheat or corrupt. But yeah a zillion lawyers won't fix that either; thus downhill with the joint.

    I don't think things are as bad as you say they are, but the USA could be there 20 years from now. I have just finished Isaac's Asimov's two prequel novels to the Foundation (written about 1990). He gives lots of interesting signs of a civilization on a decline.

    I don't think the current system can fix this mess. A new system will have to be built.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Dave Volek Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: Dave, yes you see it correctly; for the Americans "socialism" is a dirty word; they immediately tie it to "communism" while that is totally different. Like you said the US with its antique Constitution has politically never evolved to present day needs in its laws. The zillion lawyers have made an huge mess of this document and drown in the paperwork to prove their interpretation of 1800's laws. Like the "second amendment" ; it says nowhere that you can own an AR 15, but the NRA lawyers "prove" that you can. Sorry this country is an real banana republic, but does not wants to admit it. All the laws here are so convoluted it is pathetic. There are no solid laws for a "President"; only "rules" or "clauses" which are vague with huge loopholes. Trump knows that and therefore can easily become worlds biggest dictator. The "forefathers" here never anticipated that people like Trump could become "leaders" and wrote their "base" law on the assumption that everyone in this country would be God fearing and not lie or cheat or corrupt. But yeah a zillion lawyers won't fix that either; thus downhill with the joint.

    I don't think things are as bad as you say they are, but the USA could be there 20 years from now. I have just finished Isaac's Asimov's two prequel novels to the Foundation (written about 1990). He gives lots of interesting signs of a civilization on a decline.

    I don't think the current system can fix this mess. A new system will have to be built.

    Yes Dave, I think we are thinking alike.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Kenosha, WI
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    Trump plans on making life difficult for Harley Davidson after they announced they were moving their Kansas City operation to Taiwan, because of his tariffs/trade war. Trump is going to tax the hell out of HD. Fact is, HD planned this move months ago, probably as a union busting maneuver to save money. Where else in the world can a conservative corporation find cheap labor? Isn't that why we buy Chinese imports?

    Scott Walker, the governor of Wisconsin rides a Harley.

    Walker avoids criticizing Trump over Harley

    waow.com/story/38512204/2018/06/Tuesday...

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    I've never seen a President as stupid as this one; his father "bought"his Warton diploma; he was the worst student there ever. About Harley or US made cars, he has no clue whatsoever. Over in Europe they don't like Harleys except the odd ones.

    Neither do they like American made cars; "made in "inches" and an tax nightmare. In France cars are taxed by their horsepower; like the "Deux Chevaux Citroen" Also the "weight" is taxed in the "road" tax . I've certainly not seen any Cadillacs sold there in any quantities. The only thing is that Tesla sold some cars to taxi companies. Trump thinks he knows it all, but has no idea whatsoever, why they don't buy American made cars; also they are fuel guzzlers (in Europe gas cost about EU 1.80 a liter) Forcing to buy American made goods will have exactly the opposite reaction. But yeah the guy never learned to analyse, let alone "read". Stupidity reigns.

  • Independent
    Washington
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    Dave Volek Wrote:

    I don't think things are as bad as you say they are, but the USA could be there 20 years from now. I have just finished Isaac's Asimov's two prequel novels to the Foundation (written about 1990). He gives lots of interesting signs of a civilization on a decline.

    I don't think the current system can fix this mess. A new system will have to be built.

    I don't think its that bad either. DT is not starting a revolution that will lead to the total collapse of the US as extremists are predicting, and his wacko base is hoping for.

    My thinking is pretty simple, there is only one DT, and he is over 70. He's not going be able to over throw the US government, suspend the Constitution, appoint himself president for life, etc, etc with what little functional time he has left to live. Who is going to take over from him that will hold his base together, Steven Miller? I just don't see it happening, even in worse case scenario. The doomsday predictions are that DT is the new Hitler, and his base is the new Nazi party, and they will succeed in creating the master race of white supremacy that lasts 1000 years. DT's immigration crack down is perceived to be equal to Nazi's crack down on Jews in the 1930's & 40s.... IMO, none of that will become a reality, not even his F'ing wall. trump's success has always been temporary, and he has always been the primary reason for his many business failures, if not the the sole reason.


    DT is like one of the many broke losers who have won the millions in lottery, and within 5 years they file for bankruptcy because they have not only spent it all, they have spent millions beyond the amount of what they won.