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Poisoned Minds and Their Poisoners: Anti-Abortion Killers

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    I will be marking March 10 of this year as the 25th anniversary of the assassination of abortion provider David Gunn in Pensacola, Florida. Gunn was gunned down by Michael F. Griffin.

    Michael Frederick Griffin was sentenced to life in prison for the murder of David Gunn. He was a bully and a violent man:

    In court records of a divorce action she filed in 1991, and later withdrew, Mrs. Griffin portrayed her husband as a man who physically abused her.

    What Dewayne Dreadin, manager at Dreamland roller skating rink here, remembers about Mr. Griffin is his temper. Mr. Griffin worked part time as a guard at the rink two years ago.

    "He back-armed a kid, and knocked him down," Mr. Dreadin said. "I fired him for it. He stalked out and slammed the door. It was kind of like it was his way, or nothing."

    nytimes.com/1993/03/14/us/the-clinic-gu...

    In Griffin's court trial and his defense:

    At Griffin’s murder trial, his defense counsel would blame his actions on a pro-life leader named John Burt. A former KKK member, Burt was eventually convicted of molesting and sexually abusing teens at a shelter he founded for unwed mothers. He died in prison.

    slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/10/mic...

    God!

    Violence. Violence against women. Misogyny. Pedophilia. Racism.

    Lovely traits.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Pensacola. In 1984 two young couples bombed three different abortion clinic locations. One the Ladies Center in the University Mall Complex was about 200 feet from my bedroom window. It was after midnight and I ran over there right away. Pink fiberglass insulation was still floating down. Among other objections what really bothered me about the bombings was the danger to the general public. Those bombs could have just as easily blown up at a red light next to innocent bystanders. The OPs post involved violent people looking to hurt people, regardless. There are always violent people looking for excuses. Doing labor union work there was no shortage of people willing to carry out violent, dangerous illegal activities. Union or not.

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    Thank you for this additional information about anti-abortion terrorism.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Tucson, AZ
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    Last Saturday, a man in New Jersey crashed a stolen bakery truck into a Planned Parenthood clinic. injuring a pregnant woman and two others.

    This month, New Jersey state lawmakers voted to restore millions of dollars in funding for health and family planning clinics. The funding had been cut under the administration of Gov. Chris Christie, a Republican.

    The new governor, Philip D. Murphy, a Democrat, was endorsed by Planned Parenthood.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/17/nyregion/truck-attack-planned-parenthood.html?module=WatchingPortal®ion=c-column-middle-span-region&pgType=Homepage&action=click&mediaId=thumb_square&state=standard&contentPlacement=26&version=internal&contentCollection=www.nytimes.com&contentId=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2018%2F02%2F17%2Fnyregion%2Ftruck-attack-planned-parenthood.html&eventName=Watching-article-click

    Why do "pro-life" folks keep trying to kill people?

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    that guy in AZ Wrote:

    Last Saturday, a man in New Jersey crashed a stolen bakery truck into a Planned Parenthood clinic. injuring a pregnant woman and two others.

    This month, New Jersey state lawmakers voted to restore millions of dollars in funding for health and family planning clinics. The funding had been cut under the administration of Gov. Chris Christie, a Republican.

    The new governor, Philip D. Murphy, a Democrat, was endorsed by Planned Parenthood.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/17/nyregion/truck-attack-planned-parenthood.html?module=WatchingPortal®ion=c-column-middle-span-region&pgType=Homepage&action=click&mediaId=thumb_square&state=standard&contentPlacement=26&version=internal&contentCollection=www.nytimes.com&contentId=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2018%2F02%2F17%2Fnyregion%2Ftruck-attack-planned-parenthood.html&eventName=Watching-article-click

    Why do "pro-life" folks keep trying to kill people?

    Guy, the pro-life people were never raped, because they are too ugly to rape, if they get an total disfigured or even normal kid they sell it to the army; it is "gods will" . However whatever "god" he knows of nothing, because he/it? never wrote a "bible"; "HUMANS" did.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Karen -- Yes the anti-abortion activism can border on killing. Remember Bill O'Reilly continually referring to Dr. Tiller as "Tiller the Baby Killer". One of those anti-abortion extremists, Scott Roeder, murdered Tiller while he was in church. His reasoning? Because "preborn children's lives were in imminent danger."

    For many of the extreme anti-abortionists, the murder of Dr. Tiller was welcomed. Randall Terry, the founder of Operation Rescue, said at the time (from Wikipedia...above link):

    "George Tiller was a mass-murderer. We grieve for him that he did not have time to properly prepare his soul to face God. I am more concerned that the Obama Administration will use Tiller's killing to intimidate pro-lifers into surrendering our most effective rhetoric and actions. Abortion is still murder. And we still must call abortion by its proper name; murder. Those men and women who slaughter the unborn are murderers according to the Law of God. We must continue to expose them in our communities and peacefully protest them at their offices and homes, and yes, even their churches."

    Wiley Drake, second vice president of the Southern Baptist Convention in 2006–2007, asked on his radio show, "Would you have rejoiced when Adolf Hitler died during the war? ... I would have said, 'Amen! Praise the Lord! Hallelujah! I'm glad he's dead.' This man, George Tiller, was far greater in his atrocities than Adolf Hitler, so I am happy; I am glad that he is dead."

    Such is the mentality of many in the evangelical movement, and why Hillary Clinton was so despised...or hated. Because Hillary was Pro-Choice and pro-Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood to an evangelicals is like satin. It's one of the reasons Hillary lost the white women's vote. The evangelicals, both men and women, vote in huge numbers and their hatred against abortion trumps any other worldviews, no matter how despicable.

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Tucson, AZ
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    Three days after he became president, Trump signed an executive order that denied U.S. assistance to any foreign-based organization that performs, promotes or offers information on abortion . A similar plan, known as the Mexico City policy, was in effect under past Republican presidents. But Trump expanded it exponentially to apply not just to around $600 million in overseas family-planning funds, but to the entire $8.8 billion in annual U.S. global health aid.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/world/how-a-change-in-us-abortion-policy-reverberated-around-the-globe/?utm_term=.ecb98948ac20

    Abortion is one of the very few topics that manages to combine religion, politics, and sex, and it has REALLY screwed up our politics. I have 2 relatives who voted for Trump ONLY because of the abortion issue.

    Up until about 10 years ago, I was pretty conservative on this issue, but gradually came to understand that my position was incorrect.

    I just finished reading an excellent book bu Jodi Picoult titled "a spark of light", which is a story about a man who storms into the ONLY abortion clinic in Mississippi and starts shooting people. Like all her books, this one is thoroughly researched and thought provoking. There are 5 states, incidentally, that have only ONE clinic.

    A paragraph from the author's notes in the book vividly demonstrates the hypocrisy of the "pro-life" people.

    The National Abortion Federation compiles statistics on violence committed by anti-abortion protesters in the United States and Canada. Since 1977, there have been 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault and battery, 13 individuals wounded, 10 stink bombs, 373 break-ins, 42 bombings, 173 arsons, 91 attempted bombings or arsons, 619 bomb threats, 1630 acts of trespassing, 1264 incidents of vandalism, 655 anthrax threats, and 3 kidnappings.

    11 people have been killed: four doctors, 2 clinic employees, a security guard, a police officer, a clinic escort, and 2 others.

    In addition to the violence, clinics have been attacked by politicians. In the past 5 years, more than 280 laws have been passed that restrict access to abortion. In Mississippi, a woman can actually be charged for murder if she terminates her pregnancy. The two provisions in the law are Mississippi code section 97-3-17, section 1, and Mississippi Code 97-3-19, section D.

    Since there have been FOUR Supreme Court decisions in favor of the "pro-choice' crows, it seems to me that the Mississippi laws are unconstitutional, so I wrote a letter to the Mississippi chapter of the ACLU a few days ago, and asked them if they had brought suit yet against the state.

    If you have the time to read another book about abortion, I would recommend reading "scarlet A" by Kaatie Watson, who is a bioethicist at Northwestern's medical school, and a senior counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union of Illinois.

    nytimes.com/2018/02/14/books/review-sca...

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Tucson, AZ
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    We all get occasional mailings from our conservative friends and relatives who voted for Trump strictly because of the abortion issue ...

    I got one this morning that said, "what if the government paid for adoptions instead of abortions?"

    Unless you're a regular viewer of FOX, you already now that the federal government does NOT pay for abortions - and hasn't since 1977 ..

    https://www.thoughtco.com/does-government-fund-abortion-3533712

    The Hyde amendment passed in 1977 .. initially , exceptions were made for rape and incest, or if the mother's life is in danger because of the pregnancy - the third exception was eliminated in 1979, and the next two were eliminated in 1981 .. the recent legalization of abortion in Ireland, incidentally, happened because a pregnant female dentist was denied an abortion even though her fetus was dead .. she later died as a result .. her name is Savita Halappanavar ..

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar

    the conservatives in our society wouldn't have voted for Hillary "in a million years" because this is their image of Democrats:

    image.png

    It actually IS true that the federal government does not pay for adoptions. However, most states provide assistance under certain circumstances. Here's a link where you can check out the benefits in your state. In Arizona, the assistance is limited to $2000, but it IS better than nothing.

    https://www.childwelfare.gov/topics/adoption/adopt-assistance/?CWIGFunctionsaction=adoptionByState:main.getAnswersByState

    However, it you are a FOSTER parent, the rules are a lot different. The best state to be a foster parent is Nebraska, where you can receive as much as $1079 per child.

    https://wehavekids.com/adoption-fostering/What-does-being-a-foster-parent-really-pay

    The federal government DOES provide funding for Planned Parenthood. In 2014, federal funding amounted to $530 million.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_Parenthood

    Although Planned Parenthood provides a variety of services, abortion services is only 3% of the total.

    Abortion rates are now at a 40 year low. The number of abortions peaked when a Republican (Reagan) was president, and dropped steadily after that until 2006, when another Republican (George W. Bush) was president, when a slight INCREASE happened.

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/01/18/the-abortion-rate-in-america-falls-to-its-lowest-level-since-roe-v-wade

    When states cut funding for family planning clinics (which provide birth control) , abortions actually INCREASE, which Texas recently discovered.

    https://www.teenvogue.com/story/texas-teen-abortion-rate-increases

  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    Admittedly entirely off topic but....

    I just got Netflix and just watched a few early episodes of The West Wing. Wow, I miss that show and that time in our country where intelligent people could discuss politics and social issues. For those with access, it's refreshing compared to the circus or carnival sideshow we currently have.

    We now return to abortion and related terrorists.

  • Independent
    Washington
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    that guy in AZ Wrote:

    Unless you're a regular viewer of FOX, you already now that the federal government does NOT pay for abortions - and hasn't since 1977 ..

    https://www.thoughtco.com/does-government-fund-abortion-3533712

    Yes, this is one of biggest promoted misleading facts of the anti-abortionists. They continually state the US government pays for abortions.

    In the past I have read studies\polls of Republicans and Democrats; Republicans overwhelming believe the government pays for abortions, and Democrats are more informed knowing its not true. Even when told the facts, many Republicans remain skeptical and continue believe that government pays for abortions. Take that away that one fact, it reduces their argument by about 50%, so they don't want to give it up.

    I don't have the exact numbers, but is something like over 95% of all women who become pregnant never have an abortion. And of those that do, its is for medical reasons and\or extremely soon after getting pregnant.

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Tucson, AZ
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    wwjd:

    I found that the Guttmacher Institute had managed to come up with some very specific numbers, and the numbers are higher than you might think:

    https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/unintended-pregnancy-united-states

    Although I would recommend reading the entire article, the last two paragraphs are key:

    OUTCOMES OF UNINTENDED PREGNANCY

    • In 2011, 42% of unintended pregnancies (excluding miscarriages) ended in abortion, and 58% ended in birth. This was a small shift from 2008, when 40% ended in abortion and 60% ended in birth.
    • The unplanned birth rate in 2011 was 22 per 1,000 women aged 15–44. In that same year, the abortion rate was 17 per 1,000 women.
    • The proportion of unintended pregnancies ending in birth decreased across all racial and ethnic groups between 2008 and 2011. The proportion of women experiencing an unintended pregnancy and choosing to end it in abortion was higher among black women (50%) than among women in other racial and ethnic groups (36–40%).
    • In 2011, a lower proportion of women below poverty (38%) than of women at 100–199% of poverty (44%) or of higher-income women (48%) chose to end an unintended pregnancy by abortion. Consequently, women below poverty had a relatively high unplanned birth rate compared with women above poverty (60 vs. 9–28 per 1,000 women aged 15–44).
    • The proportion of births that fathers report as unplanned—about four in 10 in a 2006–2010 study—is similar to that reported by mothers. The proportion varied significantly according to fathers’ union status, age, education level, and race and ethnicity.

    PREVENTING UNINTENDED PREGNANCY

    • Publicly funded family planning services help women avoid pregnancies they do not want and plan pregnancies they do want. In 2014, these services helped women avoid two million unintended pregnancies, which would likely have resulted in 900,000 births and nearly 700,000 abortions.
    • Without publicly funded family planning services, U.S. rates of unintended pregnancy, and resulting births and abortions for 2014 would have been 68% higher.
    • In 2010, the nationwide public investment in family planning services resulted in $13.6 billion in net savings from helping women avoid unintended pregnancies and a range of other negative reproductive health outcomes, such as HIV and other STIs, cervical cancer and infertility.

    The Trump administration, naturally, is using EXACTLY THE WRONG APPROACH:

    https://www.guttmacher.org/article/2018/05/teen-pregnancy-prevention-program-was-right-track-now-its-being-dismantled

    In April, the Trump administration released two Teen Pregnancy Prevention Program (TPPP) funding opportunity announcements (FOAs) that would fundamentally shift the program from one grounded in evidence to one emphasizing abstinence-only when it comes to the sexual and reproductive health and rights of young people.

    "Just say no" never was a very successful way to fight illegal drugs, and it certainly won't have much of an effect on a 17 year old boy with a hard on.

    The Guttmacher Institute is a research organization started in 1968 that works to study, educate, and advance sexual and reproductive health and rights.The organization works mainly in the United States but also focuses on developing countries.The Guttmacher Institute uses studies to help support policy making and program reform. The Institute is named after obstetrician-gynocologist and the former president of Planned Parenthood, Alan F. Guttmacher. The Guttmacher Institute has many sources of funding nationally and internationally.One of the Institute's biggest projects is keeping a running list of the reproductive health laws and policies throughout the United States.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guttmacher_Instit...

    Views on abortion vary widely by religious groups. Although the Catholic Church arguably has the most rigid stance on abortion, 48% of the Catholics surveyed the Pew Research felt that abortion was acceptable under certain circumstances, but 47% felt that abortion was should be illegal in almost all circumstances. Since only 7% of the Jehovah Witnesses believe in evolution, it's not surprising that the group overwhelmingly feels that abortion should be illegal in almost all circumstances.

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/01/22/american-religious-groups-vary-widely-in-their-views-of-abortion/

    Oddly enough, Catholic women are MORE likely to have abortions than non-Catholics:

    https://www.beliefnet.com/faiths/catholic/2001/01/the-catholic-abortion-paradox.aspx

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Tucson, AZ
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    Bill Clinton once said, "abortion should be safe, legal, and rare", and he is right.

    The number of women dying in childbirth in America is a lot higher (50,000 a year) than the number of women dying from abortions (4 in 2012) , and our maternal death rate is higher than virtually any other developed country (there are 45 countries that do a better job than we do).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_maternal_mortality_rate

    The country that has the highest maternal death rate in the world is Sierra Leone, but they have other problems as well:

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/02/sierra-leone-president-declares-rape-national-emergency-190208145036124.html