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Sanders is ahead in everything.

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    Dutch Wrote: Jared, What is the use of discussion this?

    Because many on the left side of the aisle are still figuring out what happened in 2016. I have different opinions than Bernie or busters, but that doesn't mean I don't want to engage with them in a constructive manner.

    This is a website that welcomes self identified Democrats, non-party affiliated liberals, Bernie or busters, centrists, and conservatives that aren't trolls. We welcome all opinions and I will continue to state my own.

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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Carlitos Wrote: More primary Clinton voters voted for McCain in 2008 than Bernie primary voters who voted for Trump.

    10% of Clinton supporters voted for McCain in 2008.

    12% of Bernie supporters voted for Donald Trump in 2016.

    Read your own links
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    Carlitos Wrote: Read your own links

    I have. Have you?

    You said "[m]ore primary Clinton voters voted for McCain in 2008 than Bernie primary voters who voted for Trump." I provided statistics proving that was a false statement.

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    I posted earlier that more Clinton Voters went for McCain than Bernie voters went for Trump:

    "Moreover, defections from a primary to general election are common. More voters went from Hillary Clinton to John McCain in 2008 than went from Sanders to Trump in 2016; about 13 percent of Trump’s 2016 voters also voted for Barack Obama in 2012.

    www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com

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    Chet Ruminski Wrote:

    I posted earlier that more Clinton Voters went for McCain than Bernie voters went for Trump:

    "Moreover, defections from a primary to general election are common. More voters went from Hillary Clinton to John McCain in 2008 than went from Sanders to Trump in 2016; about 13 percent of Trump’s 2016 voters also voted for Barack Obama in 2012.

    www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com

    Once again...10% of Clinton voters went for McCain while 12% of Bernie voters went for Donald.

    Percentages don't matter though. Enough Bernie or busters in three states handed Donald the Presidency against the will of the American people. Thanks, Bernie.

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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Chet Ruminski Wrote:

    I posted earlier that more Clinton Voters went for McCain than Bernie voters went for Trump:

    "Moreover, defections from a primary to general election are common. More voters went from Hillary Clinton to John McCain in 2008 than went from Sanders to Trump in 2016; about 13 percent of Trump’s 2016 voters also voted for Barack Obama in 2012.

    www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com

    Once again...10% of Clinton voters went for McCain while 12% of Bernie voters went for Donald.

    Percentages don't matter though. Enough Bernie or busters in three states handed Donald the Presidency against the will of the American people. Thanks, Bernie.

    Your first link says 10% of McCain voters identified as Democrats, not Hillary primary votes. Your second link links to a study reporting that some 25% of Clinton primary voters voted McCain.

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    The missed point is the DNC had nothing to attract voters and they still have nothing to attract voters. They are actually running more voters away by dismissing Bernie supporters.
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    Carlitos Wrote: Your first link says 10% of McCain voters identified as Democrats, not Hillary primary votes. Your second link links to a study reporting that some 25% of Clinton primary voters voted McCain.

    The second link discusses the 12% of Bernie crossover voters that went for Donald. It doesn't link to anything that has to do about the 2008 campaign.

    It is a undisputed fact that Donald would not be President if Bernie or busters in three states didn't vote for him. Why Bernie or busters refuse to accept that or take even some responsibility for it is why I'm not terribly excited about our prospects in 2018 and 2020. It's Bernie or busters way or the highway.

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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: The missed point is the DNC had nothing to attract voters and they still have nothing to attract voters. They are actually running more voters away by dismissing Bernie supporters.
    Yes the DNC has, but nothing less than total and complete submission by the hated centrists and pragmatists is good enough for Bernie or busters.
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    Keep your expectations drastically low and the DNC may hit the mark.
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Chet Ruminski Wrote: The missed point is the DNC had nothing to attract voters and they still have nothing to attract voters. They are actually running more voters away by dismissing Bernie supporters.
    Yes the DNC has, but nothing less than total and complete submission by the hated centrists and pragmatists is good enough for Bernie or busters.
    You have to appeal to voters not make excuses for a failed job. Don't forget that you were hoping Trump would get the nomination while I was saying he would get elected if Hillary didn't recognize the plight of the working class.
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: You have to appeal to voters not make excuses for a failed job. Don't forget that you were hoping Trump would get the nomination while I was saying he would get elected if Hillary didn't recognize the plight of the working class.

    I have admitted that I didn't think the candidate the people overwhelmingly voted for would "lose" the election. And it's not like you've let me forget that considering you have reminded me dozens, if not hundreds, of times.

    What you will never, ever, ever be able to prove is whether Bernie would have won the general election. Maybe he would have and maybe he would have lost in a landslide.

    Democrats overwhelmingly chose Hillary. By millions of votes. The American people overwhelmingly chose Hillary. By millions of votes. The system chose Donald (with the help of Bernie or busters in three states).

    Hillary also recognized "the plight of the working class," but the working class chose to vote for demagogues who would never be able to follow through on a single thing they promised.

    Thinking critically about stubbornly complex issues isn't nearly as sexy as being promised everything in the world...for free!

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    "And it's not like you've let me forget that considering you have reminded me dozens, if not hundreds, of times."

    Don't play the victim. Just recall all the mean horrible things you guys said and called me for over a year while I was saying Trump would probably win if the working class wasn't addresssed. Trump did it with one simple sentence that should have been Hillary's : "Lots of good paying jobs". Instead the DNC message was the working class is doing fine. Appears nothing was learned.

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    From your link:

    And according to one 2008 study, around 25 percent of Clinton primary voters in that election ended up voting for Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., in the general.

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    Carlitos Wrote:

    From your link:

    And according to one 2008 study, around 25 percent of Clinton primary voters in that election ended up voting for Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., in the general.

    Yea...I didn't post that link nor did I post that "one 2008 study." And just a heads up - that study was written in 2010.

    You are the one who brought the 2008 election in with your unfounded claim that "[m]ore primary Clinton voters voted for McCain in 2008 than Bernie primary voters who voted for Trump." No one was talking about Obama-Clinton until you decided it was germane to the discussion. You seem to have decided that it was in an attempt to stick up for the Bernie or busters who handed Donald the Presidency.

    NONE of the links I posted - the 2016 National Popular Vote Tracker, the U.S. Election Atlas, political scientist Brian Schaffner's Twitter account, the Democratic and liberal support for John McCain in 2008 Wikipedia link that shows 10% of Democrats voted for John McCain, or the NPR article that discusses the fact that 12% of Bernie supporters voted for Donald has anything to do with the 2008 Obama-Clinton primary.