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Hypocrisy of faith-based and anti-abortion groups

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    A group of Democratic legislators in Rhode Island passed a bill that would enshrine safeguards at the state level. They wanted to make sure federal restrictions could not affect a woman’s right to choose, no matter the future of Roe v. Wade.

    But on Jan. 26, days after the 47th anniversary of that landmark legal case, one Rhode Island priest (Richard Bucci) has issued a damning rebuke: Any lawmakers who voted in favor of the law, he said, would be barred from receiving Communion or taking on special roles at church functions.

    “In accord with the teaching of the Catholic Church for 2000 years, the following members of the legislature may NOT receive Holy Communion, as are all the general officers of the state of Rhode Island, as well as Rhode Island’s members of Congress,” the note said. “In addition, they will not be allowed to act as witnesses to marriage, godparents, or lectors at weddings, funerals, or any other church function.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/02/03/communion-abortion-pastor/?itid=hp_hp-morning-mix-for-right-rail_mm-priest%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans

    Has the church really banned abortions for 2000 years?

    Nope.

    It IS true that the Catholic church currently opposed abortion, but their position has really only existed (with minor exceptions) since roughly 1750

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12178868

    State Rep. Julie Casimiro (D), who voted in favor of the bill, said that the Rhode Island General Assembly should take a page out of Bucci’s book and distribute a flier naming priests accused of sexual assault and telling them they are “not welcome at the State House,” she wrote on Facebook, according to the Journal.

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    Yes, these idiots still live in 1200; they likely don't have clue where baby's and themselves come from. Let's stone the witches! Thus use your brain an don't vote for Biden, because he's an staunch Catholic and "believes" all of this B.S and that Jesus will save his ass and this country now "owned" by the Trump family, who believes everything as well, if it will get him votes. What a country!
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    Despite the fact that he is utterly unqualified to be president, we have relatives who voted for Trump ONLY because of the abortion issue.

    An article in lifesitenews laid it our for them:

    "In the 2016 presidential election, there is “a fundamental divergence not only of the candidates but of the parties” when it comes to the foundational issue of the right to life, Priests for Life National Director Father Frank Pavone told LifeSiteNews.

    “There are certain positions that a public official takes which disqualify them from public office,” Pavone said. “Abortion is a disqualifying position. To be in support of the killing of innocent children disqualifies you. It doesn’t matter how good you are on other issues. It really doesn’t matter because you have undermined even your position on those other issues.”

    lifesitenews.com/news/watch-can-a-catho...

    Let me repeat that for you.

    It doesn’t matter how good you are on other issues. It really doesn’t matter because you have undermined even your position on those other issues.”

    Trump, of course, was "pro-choice" most of his adult life, and only switched to "pro-life" in 2012, when he was thinking about running for president in 2012.

    https://qz.com/1623437/trump-shifted-from-pro-choice-to-pro-life-as-he-planned-a-presidential-run/

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    Its unlikely that the SC will make abortion illegal again, but its remotely possible they will over turn RvW, handing it back to each state to write their own abortion laws. That would mean some states it will remain fully legal, other states permitted with restrictions, and others where they pass laws to make it first degree murder of a child even if a women goes out of state where its legal, and even if she is only two weeks pregnant.

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    Question: Does the Republican party really want Roe v Wade over turned?

    The issue is one hell of a Republican voting issue. Take away that one issue significantly weakens the party's platform. Its like that Star Trek episode where two warring parties on a planet really don't want to solve problems or comprise because it takes away their reason to exist.

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    US President Donald Trump has been treated with an anti-COVID-19 drug developed with cells derived from fetal tissue. He called it a God-given miracle cure, but what will his anti-abortion supporters think?

    After falling ill from a coronavirus infection, US President Donald Trump received REGN-COV2, an experimental-antibody drug. The treatment proved surprisingly effective, with the US leader returning to his office within a matter of days. The president has since praised the drugs as "miracles coming down from God."

    Given the fierce resistance of the Trump administration to research involving fetal tissue, it seems extremely hypocritical that the US leader, who has widespread support from anti-abortion campaigners, has lauded REGN-COV2 as a heavenly gift.

    Just last year, Trump cut federal funding for national research efforts into HIV and cancer treatments based on fetal tissue. A special commission was established within the US Health Department — staffed with many anti-abortion activists — to monitor and block unfavorable research projects. So far, it has already rejected 13 of 14 research proposals.

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    Guess what; I bet he's getting "kickbacks" from Regeneron; no wonder because he's promoting it. That is how it works in this country. The stocks are soaring, but this product has not yet been proven or certified; so the side-effects are may be already visible looking at Trump's behavior. What a country; they even promote an "donkey" to President if they could; as well "donkey pee" to solve all the worlds problems.
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    Yes like Arizona says, indeed they will vote "only" because of the "church" abortion stance for Trump. We've got some people here in the street who are nice people but super "religious" with an Trump sign in the yard. This shows how "sick" this country is. The churches here have way too much power over the people and politics, because it is an "deserted island" in the rest of the world. They came here as settlers but also brought with them the "fear" of the unknown and therefore grabbed religion an straw to clamp on. Since only more settlers got tossed out of Europe because of "weird" religions, it has grown here out of proportion. I guess it is an total lack of education and the refusal to analyze and think; which means: I have to be the same as the neighbor; the "herd" mentality overrules.
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    Dutch Wrote: Yes like Arizona says, indeed they will vote "only" because of the "church" abortion stance for Trump. We've got some people here in the street who are nice people but super "religious" with an Trump sign in the yard. This shows how "sick" this country is. The churches here have way too much power over the people and politics, because it is an "deserted island" in the rest of the world. They came here as settlers but also brought with them the "fear" of the unknown and therefore grabbed religion an straw to clamp on. Since only more settlers got tossed out of Europe because of "weird" religions, it has grown here out of proportion. I guess it is an total lack of education and the refusal to analyze and think; which means: I have to be the same as the neighbor; the "herd" mentality overrules.

    Actually, Dutch, churches are selling something. That it is claimed to be truth is irrelevant. Religion plays into the human psyche by claiming to address fundamental questions that humans appear to be hardwired to ask. Why are we here? What happens after death? Is there a heaven and hell? These questions then get shifted to the concept of “what is justice” which reverts to heaven and hell. There is also the question of why suffering occurs. The problem is that there is no answer to any of these questions that can be proven. As stated it is a leap of faith. Even those who do not believe are making that same leap of faith.

    Beyond that? Churches seek political power. They seek to enforce their belief structure as truth followed by God’s will followed by God’s law and finally enforced by the sanctioned violence inherent in the state. It is not about religion. It never was and never will be. It is ALWAYS about political power with the side benefit to the priest class of enriching themselves.

    As for getting rid of it? It will never happen. The freedom of religion in this country is fertile ground to charlatans. To borrow from Heinlein in his description of The First Prophet in his future history story line: (as well as I can remember it) “He was too lazy to dig ditches, not smart enough to be an engineer but, brother, could he pray.” People seek the connection to eternity with themselves at the center of it. The three so-called Abrahamic faiths give them that, allegedly.

    Anyone, in point of opinion, who claims to be a man/woman of God is a liar.

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    Lonely, Yes good story. The thing is however, that this country, because it acts like an island is so much more entwined into religion, than I was used to in Europe or elsewhere in the world. In most civil countries they put in their base laws that "religion" should stay out of "governing" and churches should have no influence in politics.

    But yeah in this country regardless of going to the "moon" they stick to their outdated beliefs, which makes "governing" an pain in the butt. Governing should be strictly dealing with "earthly" things, which are "real" and can be "carried out" on earth.

    Now again with the Supreme Court appointment; religion shows its ugly head. And Pelosi is entwined with the catholic church as well and therefore got herself into deep shit. Sorry but it is time that this country makes "laws" that makes it impossible to have churches interfere in governing. There used to be an statement about that but is no longer the case under Trump. ( Separation of church and government). At least in Europe they make apartments out of churches; why not here?

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    Dutch Wrote:

    Lonely, Yes good story. The thing is however, that this country, because it acts like an island is so much more entwined into religion, than I was used to in Europe or elsewhere in the world. In most civil countries they put in their base laws that "religion" should stay out of "governing" and churches should have no influence in politics.

    But yeah in this country regardless of going to the "moon" they stick to their outdated beliefs, which makes "governing" an pain in the butt. Governing should be strictly dealing with "earthly" things, which are "real" and can be "carried out" on earth.

    Now again with the Supreme Court appointment; religion shows its ugly head. And Pelosi is entwined with the catholic church as well and therefore got herself into deep shit. Sorry but it is time that this country makes "laws" that makes it impossible to have churches interfere in governing. There used to be an statement about that but is no longer the case under Trump. ( Separation of church and government). At least in Europe they make apartments out of churches; why not here?

    I find it intriguing that 9 European countries have state religions. The freedom of religion in the U.S. has allowed religion to flourish here, for good or ill. The RW whining about Christianity being oppressed here would be amusing were it not for the fact that what is being oppressed is their political aspirations.

    In point of opinion, the religious test clause is a barrier to religion governing. The problem lies in the role that belief structures play in the governing by those chosen to govern. To expect abandonment of belief structures by politicians is naive. We are stuck with attempting to discern how much or how little their belief structures will impact their governing.

    I include in this issue the following items:

    A good family man (usually)/woman - What, are they going to claim that they are a shitty family man/woman? Anyone can crank out a puppy. Treatment of children is important and that includes children who are less fortunate.

    Strong family values - See above but add in a lack of definition that is never asked about.

    A person of faith - I have faith. I have faith that the Cleveland Baseball Club will win a World Series before I die. Beyond that? I don’t give a shit about their religion and neither should anyone else because the Constitution doesn’t.

    “Midwest values/‘Real American’” - Blah, blah, blah. Midwest values? What the fuck does that mean? Hard working? Like people in New England or California or Virginia don’t work hard? A load of crap used as agitprop. The same applies to “Real American” which is actually worse and should never, ever be tolerated.

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    Yes lonely; except if the Supreme Court is loaded with these religious freaks, what is happening now, then I guess "normal" thinking people will be discriminated. Like I said there should be "separation" between "church" and "State"

    ?If not, then you get that "deals" are made which the "church" dictates and not "common worldly sense" is used

    Do we want that?

    Women should themselves determine what they do with their "bodies"; not something which floats in outer space and never had any contact with this tiny nothing planet. Churches themselves determined such to meddle in peoples private lives not green monsters on Mars. Wake up America ; churches always act like parasites and created lots of wars; they are responsible for millions of deaths on this tiny planet. Especially the Catholic church, who murdered women, burning them alive and had slaves built their gold plated cathedrals as well stole all their gold from the Inca's and murdered those.

    People here forget that!

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    Dutch Wrote:

    Yes lonely; except if the Supreme Court is loaded with these religious freaks, what is happening now, then I guess "normal" thinking people will be discriminated. Like I said there should be "separation" between "church" and "State"

    ?If not, then you get that "deals" are made which the "church" dictates and not "common worldly sense" is used

    Do we want that?

    Women should themselves determine what they do with their "bodies"; not something which floats in outer space and never had any contact with this tiny nothing planet. Churches themselves determined such to meddle in peoples private lives not green monsters on Mars. Wake up America ; churches always act like parasites and created lots of wars; they are responsible for millions of deaths on this tiny planet. Especially the Catholic church, who murdered women, burning them alive and had slaves built their gold plated cathedrals as well stole all their gold from the Inca's and murdered those.

    People here forget that!

    The Church doesn’t dictate anything. The problem is the humans are human. Many seek belief structures that offer a variety of things including a centralized place in the cosmic drama to borrow from Parke Godwin.

    I have yet to find a normal thinking person that does not have any internal beliefs/ethics/morals that did not arise from outside sources. Peer groups, media, philosophy, theology, parents, relatives, experiences all form humans and what they believe is an aggregation of this process. You once commented that justices should have no bias. That is physically impossible. Everyone has biases. The question is what biases and how do they act upon them.

    I agree re: the violence provoked by religion. I would not focus on the Roman church because the Protestant Reformation was bloody on the Protestant side as well. Islam has been used to justify violence as has Hinduism and so on.

    So, we can no more remove religion from people’s psyche by legislation than we can cause time to move backwards. The question rather is what path humans take in evolving and growing. Will fear dominate or will reason and peace?

    Btw, I am a strict separationist. I oppose vouchers for religious schools. I oppose opening prayers for any government business. And so on. That individuals might silently pray before going in to a city council meeting is a non-issue for me. The problem arises when a government sanctioned prayer is offered. Such prayer not only violates the constitution it damages religion as well. Scripture says “when you pray, go into your closet and pray in secret and your father who sees in secret will reward you.” These words allegedly said by the Christ demonstrate that showy, hollow forms are unacceptable yet the religious right does not see this or chooses to ignore it.

    You cannot legislate away religion. It simply cannot be done. What can be done is demand and legislate that religion via its practitioners cannot impose their dogma as law. The ultimate question of both abortion and gay marriage is what is a right and what is not. Claims of God’s Will, God’s Law or Inshallah are simply unacceptable. What makes Barrett unacceptable as a SCOTUS justice is not her religion, in and of itself, but rather the language of originalism which is a bullshit judicial philosophy that was pushed by Bork. Conservatism and conservatives are the real problem.

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    Yes Lonely very good story, right on. Indeed "people stay "people". The problem however is "education" and "indoctrination". The Catholic Church wants more followers which means more "money" for them. So they invented "birth control" , it is that simple. I have an "bronze" Joanne of Arc" artifact; her riding an prancing horse in armor. It shows the hypocrisy in "churches" fighting for the church and then be burned alive by that same church. Religion is the curse of humanity; it always has been that. I guess it is an means to keep an balance in "populations" besides "famine" and " deceases". If it would not be the case, then" an inbred overpopulation" would eradicate the human race by itself.

    But the main issue right now is that an Supreme Court should be independent of "religion", if not you may as well "eradicate" that institution if it creates "dictatorship" for one party only. Again in this case "religion" interferes, which means our "laws" and "system" refuses to stick to "Separation of church and State". If we continue on this path it will mean we will become ungovernable as Rome did. God's never wrote any "laws"; humans did.