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Hypocrisy of faith-based and anti-abortion groups

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    I do not believe in anything other than science and facts. However, I am fine with the beliefs of others, true or false, as long as they do not injure or restrict others.

    But, I am having a serious problem with the Alabama litmus test for political candidates:

    Are you a member of a faith community?

    Are you pro-life?

    I am seriously offended by those questions, especially as a non-member of a "faith" community, or as a person who questions the real meaning of the term "pro-life".

    How can you call yourself pro-life when you do not have a problem with the fact that an American woman is seven times more likely to die of pregnancy-related complications than a Finnish woman, simply because these so-called "pro-life" people do not believe in prenatal and obstetric care for pregnant women, especially poor women. These harsh facts of American life are even harsher in the so-called "pro-life" state of Alabama.

    Hypocrisy. Pure and simple and evil hypocrisy.

    And, the issue of so-called "faith". What kind of evil devil do these so-called "pro-life" people worship if they refuse to feed the hungry, give water to the thirsty, homes to the homeless, medical care to the sick?

    What kind of "faith" is that?

    Hypocrisy. Pure and simple and evil hypocrisy.

    Just stop it with the sanctimonious litmus test for political candidates.

    And the endemic deceit and dishonesty found in your ranks.

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    Karen -- Welcome to the Democratic Hub website. Yes I agree with you and I'm sure several other members on this website as well. We have often written about the hypocrisy of the religious right on the topic of pro-life. For many of them in practice being pro-life only applies to "in the womb" and "on one's death bed", but little to support the teachings of Jesus in between regarding helping the poor.

    As a political litmus test for candidates, some are asked in writing and some are more subtle. In my home town of Colorado Springs (sometimes referred to as the Christian Mecca of the north), I cannot help but notice that Republican candidates for office lead off their websites with their religious affiliation and a picture of them with their large family of blond children.

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    Karen, Welcome. Yes you are absolutely correct. I came from the Netherlands where they have excellent care for women. These Christian zealots have no idea or feelings related to life. If a woman is raped or the fetus will become a vegetable or so deformed that it will suffer for a few years and die, what is the religious purpose of that anyway. Women have a body which is their own and does not belong to anyone except herself. State nor church should have any say about that. See all my writings about "how to get rich, selling snake oil" .
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    Schmidt Wrote:

    For the pro-lifers, I extracted this message from Bill Moyers FB page:

    A Catholic Nun on What It Really Means to Be Pro-Life

    "I do not believe that just because you're opposed to abortion, that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed. And why would I think that you don't? Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of pro-life is." - Sister Joan Chittister

    This defines my impression (rightly or wrongly) of so many Christians who are on crusade to overturn Roe v Wade based on their sense of morality. They're ideology is not cradle to grave, but rather womb and deathbed only. Everything else in-between is tough shit.

    Love this, spot on. As a female with some pro life tendencies in my early years that fought internally with my larger tendency towards a stronger, more socially liberal side, this exemplifies perfectly my current position on this issue. Many years to get here, though, after much internal struggle.

    Schmidt's previous comment from another thread so apropos for this thread also, and constitutes overall my biggest argument with pro lifer evangelicals.

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    planethead Wrote:
    Schmidt Wrote:

    For the pro-lifers, I extracted this message from Bill Moyers FB page:

    A Catholic Nun on What It Really Means to Be Pro-Life

    "I do not believe that just because you're opposed to abortion, that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed. And why would I think that you don't? Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of pro-life is." - Sister Joan Chittister

    This defines my impression (rightly or wrongly) of so many Christians who are on crusade to overturn Roe v Wade based on their sense of morality. They're ideology is not cradle to grave, but rather womb and deathbed only. Everything else in-between is tough shit.

    Love this, spot on. As a female with some pro life tendencies in my early years that fought internally with my larger tendency towards a stronger, more socially liberal side, this exemplifies perfectly my current position on this issue. Many years to get here, though, after much internal struggle.

    Schmidt's previous comment from another thread so apropos for this thread also, and constitutes overall my biggest argument with pro lifer evangelicals.

    No; it is much simpler than that; neither "church" or "State" owns your body; you own it. You should be able determine if you want kids or not . Planned Parenthood can be used as an "consultation" in case of doubt or advise about "medical issues" That's all folks. Why all the fuss of others who want control over you; this is not N. Korea I hope.
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    Crusades and Inquisitions are famous examples of proud hypocrisy. As well as Hawaii .
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    The two questions are interesting.

    The faith community question is a direct violation of the no religious test clause of the constitution. Thus Republicans are hypocrites right off the bat and liars as well when they claim to be originalists.

    The pro-life question is merely framing which the Republicans are far better at than Democrats. Of course they are not pro-life. They are simply opposed to legalized abortion. And we know that wealthy women will get safe abortions whether they are legal or not. So that question is exposed as being based in class warfare with overtones of racism. Basically Republicans are intellectually dishonest regarding abortion. But that is unsurprising as the current mutated strain of conservatism and the Republican Party are dishonest in general.

    I add my welcome to our newest member!

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    The Daily Kos published a story this morning about The Heidi Group, an organization that got millions of dollars in state funds, even though its director is totally unqualified for her position. The contract awarded by the state was for $16.7 million for the period 2017-2019:

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/2/25/1837607/-Texas-cut-money-for-family-planning-but-gave-an-anti-abortion-group-millions-that-were-wasted?detail=emaildkre

    Fortunately, not everybody in Texas is crazy. Last October, the state cut all ties with the organization.

    https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2018-10-19/heidi-group-heave-hoed/

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    Michelle Goldberg, New York Times, March 29, 2019: The Abortion Divide Gets Deeper

    As Goldberg writes:

    "As Roe is weakened, conservative states are becoming more conservative, liberal states more liberal. Mutual antagonism is increasing around abortion, as it is around nearly everything else. If Roe is overturned altogether, it won’t just be a disaster for women’s health care and autonomy. It will further rip America apart."

    Well it's not the only issue ripping our country apart, but it is a signature issue of liberals that is under full attack by Republicans. This has been entirely predictable, as the evangelicals and Catholics have chipped away at Roe v Wade.

    Here are a couple of quotes from the past by a famous Republican conservative:

    “Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”― Barry Goldwater

    "Religious factions will go on imposing their will on others unless the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in public policy. They must learn to make their views known without trying to make their views the only alternatives." -- Barry Goldwater

    The Republican Party is a theocracy now. That's why they keep saying Trump was chosen by God. And the base of Trump's supporters believe it...Trump is doing God's work. Ultimately it could be religion, not Putin, that brings our democracy down.

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    Pence went to Ave Maria in FL. This is an solely Catholic enclave. Thus an Pence/Pompeo paradise. I guess Pence wants to see if he (and Trump) can get more "souls" by visiting this place. Sorry this country is getting more crazy by the day. I guess the evangelicals want to take over this country; back to the "middle ages" ; the "new" Templars are ready with their guns; not on horses but "bikes".
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    Afbeelding kan het volgende bevatten: meme en tekst

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    Karen:

    Alabama is back in the news again this week.

    After the House passed a ban on abortion after six weeks, the bill went to the Senate. After a shouting match broke out in the chamber, legislators tabled an amendment to a controversial bill that would make performing abortions a felony punishable by up to 99 years imprisonment.

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    that guy in AZ Wrote:

    Karen:

    Alabama is back in the news again this week.

    After the House passed a ban on abortion after six weeks, the bill went to the Senate. After a shouting match broke out in the chamber, legislators tabled an amendment to a controversial bill that would make performing abortions a felony punishable by up to 99 years imprisonment.

    Don't forget that those States are the "red" States which support Pence as well Trump (sent by "god") thus how are we going to win elections ever, if these "dumb" religious assholes stay in power?
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    We start by trying to open some conversations. While we may disagree on many things we need to find some common ground. Hopefully we reach out to the huge number of red states.

    Communication is key. A party who wants to win with the Atlantic NE and the pacific coast only is falling very short. Find a message that has some appeal to all 50 states. Try to have discussions to see where progress can be made.

    Build a bridge towards the church. The numbers are huge in their favor. We need to appeal to 25% of them.

    Mr. Obama could be a valuable silent partner. He is masterful at effective communication. He could get us further down the path of reaching all voters by talking but listening too.

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    USA Today, May 10, 2019: Mike Pence: Why his role as Trump's evangelical ambassador is facing new pushback

    Republicans have owned the votes of Christian evangelicals with Mike Pence on the ticket. The support from older Christian conservatives remains steadfast, but for younger Christians the support is eroding particularly as it relates to LGBT rights and abortion. Furthermore, the openly gay 37 year old Pete Buttigieg has openly challenged Mike Pence's credentials by asking how he "could allow himself to become the cheerleader of the porn star presidency...Is it that he stopped believing in scripture when he started believing in Donald Trump?"

    Ouch...that hits home for some young Christian evangelical voters.

    From the USA Today article: "White evangelical Protestants still overwhelmingly support Trump, giving him the strongest backing of any religious group, according to the Pew Research Center. But the 78% approval rating Trump received from that group at the start of his administration had dropped to 69% in January."

    This is one example of how Democrats can win in 2020...hitting Trump where it hurts the most. Pete Buttigieg has shown that Trump does not own the evangelicals entirely. Knocking off 10 percent here and there with other parts of his base will spell disaster for Trump in 2020. He cannot afford those kind of losses in the Rust Belt states especially, but also Florida with a recent large base of Puerto Rico immigrants who do plan to vote against Trump.

    Of course, this is all moot if Trump is impeached in the House and convicted in the Senate. Okay...the Senate conviction will never happen. Trump will resign from office first, but not before he makes blanket pardons to his family, friends, cronies, aides, and himself. Ha.